The Feel of Retribution

Paladin
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I'm actually more or less content with how Ret functions in PvE right now. Very rare empty GCDs, and how to maximize DPS has more to do with ability to carry out rotation perfectly on the move rather than entirely reliant on RNG and/or trinket procs. It took years for Ret to arrive at its current state, and given what we've had to deal with over past expansions, I'd say right now we are at a high point.

Judging from the history of Ret, unfortunately having fewer buttons to press did in fact mean dumbing things down. In vanilla we had 1 Judge/Seal/Consecrate macro, and combat consisted of counting seconds between swings and hoping for a SoC/JoC crit. It was completely ridiculous - which was one of the many reasons Ret had such a terrible reputation at the start.

In BC we got Wings, CS, and the possibility to kill ourselves in SoB. Ret was at least a viable spec then, but still did poorly in PvE, and the play style barely improved from vanilla.

WotLK was arguably the epitome of Ret, almost entirely because of Spin to Win Divine Storm. The rotation was simplistic, but actually being able to use abilities for 70%+ of GCDs was among the largest contributions to making Ret fun to play. Of course, choice wasn't involved since it's Divine Storm all the way, but in a comparison between actually using skills 70% of the time rather than sit there and wait 70% of the time, doing something always come up on top.

At this point Ret has developed from RNG-based, super-slow game play that can barely be called game play to fast-paced combat that uses a not-too-complicated rotation. From a fun perspective, we've improved leaps and bounds. From a skill perspective, it's become a lot easier to distinguish between average, good, and excellent Rets.

Personally speaking, the only change I'd like to see is for Blizzard to take all Ret utility spells off GCD so there'd be no excuse not to use them.

Speaking of simplistic rotations... DW Frost DK - when you can do 200k DPS single target with Glaives equipped, there is a problem with design...
07/30/2014 02:13 PMPosted by Orisvae

At this point Ret has developed from RNG-based, super-slow game play that can barely be called game play to fast-paced combat that uses a not-too-complicated rotation. From a fun perspective, we've improved leaps and bounds. From a skill perspective, it's become a lot easier to distinguish between average, good, and excellent Rets.

[/quote]In LK the excellent Ret was the one that rode the tank's threat all the way. The merely good fell off after a couple of minutes. The bad either never worried the tank, or over-aggroed and died. Not hard to tell.
@Orisvae: I realize things aren't bad. I just don't like how Art of War resets a non-weapon attack. Half our single target rotation is ranged holy attacks - why have "Art of War" refresh one of the ranged attacks if we're a melee specialization? It just seems like a weird design to me. It seems like it should enhance CS/HotR in some way, not Exorcism.

And can someone tell me why our level 90 talents aren't enhanced by the Evil Eye of Galakras but our level 60s are (and only one of them isn't passive)?
Some one should've warned the poor kid that you can't tell paladins that there is something wrong with their class. They won't believe you and will flame you for it.
08/02/2014 08:30 AMPosted by Hadès
Some one should've warned the poor kid that you can't tell paladins that there is something wrong with their class. They won't believe you and will flame you for it.

There really isnt anything wrong with paladin. Other classes are just way too out of control
It feels like... a bag of sand.
It's a bit clunky if you ask me. A spam ability would be nice, but W/E. Not gonna cry over that.
Some of these posters take this game too seriously...
OP:

This point has been beaten to death this expansion, especially of late. Yeah Retribution is in a bad place for pvp, and in pve? I don't really pve so?

Hopefully in WoD they will fix the retribution spec.

IMO we need an overall damage boost, removing battle fatigue will remove our biggest hobble (pvp), and along with all of the reduction of CC we will come out pretty good IMO.

Lets hope that turns out to be true.
08/02/2014 11:18 AMPosted by Maebyfunke
It feels like... a bag of sand.
I got the reference but the context went over my head.
07/29/2014 10:18 AMPosted by Aeremis
I just feel like my Ret. Paladin should be wielding a large mace, landing slower but heavily damaging blows to the enemy. And then having time to scan his team and surroundings, and providing a bit of protection and succor where it is needed.

Wouldn't we be better off as Mastery/Crit? Make Fury Crit/Haste?

Does WoD alleviate any of this? I would just really appreciate a hybrid/utility class with some time for utility.


I like being a Plate wearing fast swining paladin though... with a sword. Hammers are boring imo.
08/06/2014 05:58 PMPosted by Rakintosh
Some of these posters take this game too seriously...


Maybe you don't take it seriously enough.
07/29/2014 11:09 AMPosted by Andrasté
07/29/2014 10:18 AMPosted by Aeremis
And everything is happening FAST!

Best part about ret imo...

Yet another Want-Ret-To-Be-Warrior-Or-DK thread.


Say what you want but I agree with him, I'll remind you that in Vanilla and even Burning Crusade a ret's bread and butter was auto attack damage with a slower play style, almost exactly as Aeremis has described
08/07/2014 05:38 PMPosted by Magnus
07/29/2014 11:09 AMPosted by Andrasté
...
Best part about ret imo...

Yet another Want-Ret-To-Be-Warrior-Or-DK thread.


Say what you want but I agree with him, I'll remind you that in Vanilla and even Burning Crusade a ret's bread and butter was auto attack damage with a slower play style, almost exactly as Aeremis has described


And how many people enjoyed that terrible play style?

And how many people enjoyed that terrible play style?


Everyone who went up against a Ret in PvP.
Reviving this old thread, and imo for good reason.

Now, Retribution has Divine Storm Proc in addition to it's normally fast paced rotation.

I think the gameplay is way too hectic for a class the supposedly wields a large 2-handed weapon, usually a hammer.

Retribution is usually completely GCD locked, in addition to it's utility abilities, and raid mechanics to watch out for.

Retribution, the 2 giant hammer wielding light infused badass, spamming ability after ability just doesn't feel right imo.
I'm really enjoying how ret feels and plays. Having a blast.
02/20/2015 08:21 AMPosted by Josephsmithh
I'm really enjoying how ret feels and plays. Having a blast.


Yes, its fun but... its hard to explain clearly, but paladin feels kinda like rogue, spamming ability after ability to fill up combo points (holy power), and then blowing the load, and them immediately generating them again.

Don't get me wrong, its good gameplay but, especially with the divine storm proc, and with hammer of wrath usable at >35% hp, it feels like you keep getting proc after proc after proc, and you have to press everything on cooldown, while using using spenders too.

Its easy, and fun, but too hectic i feel for a class thats essentially a 2 handed warrior that uses light infused attacks.

Again, its fun gameplay, but i think its more appropriate for a hypothetical dual wielding paladin, rather than a giant 2-handed weapon carrying paladin.
Thread is actually less relevant in one major way, the death of haste for paladins.
This comes from a time when 40% haste was nothing special, so the gameplay was more fast paced.
There may be more procs right now, but the slower GCD is pretty noticeable.
02/20/2015 08:59 AMPosted by Yoyomandawg
Thread is actually less relevant in one major way, the death of haste for paladins.
This comes from a time when 40% haste was nothing special, so the gameplay was more fast paced.
There may be more procs right now, but the slower GCD is pretty noticeable.


I think its not so much as having slower GCD, as it is being completely GCD locked with very few exceptions.

Most of the time, Ret has has several buttons already ready to press before they have the time to do it.

People talk about downtime with respect to melee classes, but Retribution has negative downtime. They have to cut buttons to hit other buttons that are worth more.

Excessive downtime is bad, but there is a reason downtime as a whole still exists in many classes for several reasons, to break up pace of gameplay, and allow people time to think about forthcoming raid mechanics, etc.

One final, but very important note - Paladins have no choice in dps specs and rotational gameplay. All paladins who want to dps, are forced to accept this style of play.

Other classes, for example warriors, now have essentially 3 dps specs in addition to a tank spec, so they can choose the style of gameplay they prefer.

Priests get a level 100 talent choice that drastically alters gameplay so much that its a different spec. Shadow spec was originally a DoT spec, but now can be a burst spec, with a different rotation, if they so choose.

In the same way, i would like retribution players to have choice in the style of rotational gameplay they prefer.

People who enjoy the very fast paced gameplay of Ret right now, can keep enjoying it, while other people, the kind of people who like slow paced gameplay of, say Arms warrior, but like the theme and lore of a Holy Warrior that punishes enemies with divine retribution, may also enjoy playing the paladin.

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