Open Libram CXIX: Lazy Lobsters

Paladin
Prev 1 23 24 25 Next
08/09/2014 02:50 PMPosted by Elidra
Tanks are actually threatened in heroic SoO.


Tanks are threatened in Normal too if their gear level is low enough. Difficult content is relative.

I'm not talking about just them having a chance of death though. I'm talking their gearing and play strategies actually being about survival.

What have we seen for pretty much the entirety of Mists? Tanks of every class doing everything they can to push their DPS numbers higher, not their survivability.

Tanks working out ways to abuse Vengeance and actually jeopardize their survivability for higher numbers, gearing for DPS potential, etc.

That shouldn't be what Tanking is about. They shouldn't be sturdy DPS which is what WoD looks to be pushing them further into.
Blizzard should really just swap down to raids being single tanked as the default with a second or even third tank (the latter probably being mythic only) brought in as necessary when they want to do something interesting. Of course, they'd then have to figure out something interesting for tanks to do rather than just relying on what has been their go to to force people to bring a second tank with the tank swap debuff which is pretty much never fun.
Super late to the party but I finally got The Proven Defender :D. Now I need the DPS one and I'm never stepping foot in Proving Grounds again. Until Warlords at least, since you kinda have to.
Many grats.

I still haven't been able to work up enough care to go get the Proving Grounds title, I probably should for epeens sake but bleh.

Proven Assailant just sounds so bad on a Paladin.
08/09/2014 03:30 PMPosted by Vaelryn
Super late to the party but I finally got The Proven Defender :D. Now I need the DPS one and I'm never stepping foot in Proving Grounds again. Until Warlords at least, since you kinda have to.

Proven Assailant:
Round 1: Hammer in the center.
Round 2: Twiddle your thumbs
Round 3: Wings before the round starts and hammer in the center.
Round 4: Holy Avenger
Round 5: Guardian of Ancient Kings at ~30 seconds and Wings at ~20 seconds
Round 6: Hammer in the center, hit one of the little guys in the center, then Holy Avenger one of the healers (their first heal is targeted at the guy you hit first)
Round 7: Use one of the Berserk buffs (I prefer the one not near the Amber guy as I could accidentally run over it while kiting the amber orbs)
Round 8: Wings and Holy Avenger
Round 9: Use the other Berserk buffs
Round 10: Kings at ~30 seconds and Wings and Holy Avenger at ~20

If possible, try to end every round with full Holy Power. Going into rounds 4 and 7 with a full set makes things significantly easier.

The fact that you have Engineering whose helm is crazy OP in Challenge Modes and the extra cooldown in the Synapse Springs should make it magnitudes easier than if you didn't. (I'd have killed for some extra burst in round 7) You can probably use that on cooldown, but you might experiment with:
-Not using it in round 1
-Using it at the start of rounds 2, 3, and 4.
-Saving it till the last 20 seconds of round 5
-Skipping it in round 6
-Using it in round 7 once the banana guy is down
-Using it when available in rounds 8 and 9 (probably 5 or so seconds into the round)
-Using it at ~20 seconds in Round 10
Anyone with a "Proven X" title in MoP should be grandfathered in on not needing to do Proving Grounds in WoD.
08/09/2014 04:20 PMPosted by Boggyb
08/09/2014 03:30 PMPosted by Vaelryn
Super late to the party but I finally got The Proven Defender :D. Now I need the DPS one and I'm never stepping foot in Proving Grounds again. Until Warlords at least, since you kinda have to.

Proven Assailant:
Round 1: Hammer in the center.
Round 2: Twiddle your thumbs
Round 3: Wings before the round starts and hammer in the center.
Round 4: Holy Avenger
Round 5: Guardian of Ancient Kings at ~30 seconds and Wings at ~20 seconds
Round 6: Hammer in the center, hit one of the little guys in the center, then Holy Avenger one of the healers (their first heal is targeted at the guy you hit first)
Round 7: Use one of the Berserk buffs (I prefer the one not near the Amber guy as I could accidentally run over it while kiting the amber orbs)
Round 8: Wings and Holy Avenger
Round 9: Use the other Berserk buffs
Round 10: Kings at ~30 seconds and Wings and Holy Avenger at ~20

If possible, try to end every round with full Holy Power. Going into rounds 4 and 7 with a full set makes things significantly easier.

The fact that you have Engineering whose helm is crazy OP in Challenge Modes and the extra cooldown in the Synapse Springs should make it magnitudes easier than if you didn't. (I'd have killed for some extra burst in round 7) You can probably use that on cooldown, but you might experiment with:
-Not using it in round 1
-Using it at the start of rounds 2, 3, and 4.
-Saving it till the last 20 seconds of round 5
-Skipping it in round 6
-Using it in round 7 once the banana guy is down
-Using it when available in rounds 8 and 9 (probably 5 or so seconds into the round)
-Using it at ~20 seconds in Round 10


Oh cool, thanks. I'll have to look this over.
Things I forgot:
-I went with Long Arm of the Law though I suppose you could use any of the 3.
-Glyphs: Inquisition is pretty much mandatory (cast it once and forget about it). Double Jeopardy is nice.
-Judgment and Hammer can be used through the shield the one guys use. Abuse that.
-My best trinket combination was the Darkmoon Card and the Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun though you can probably make almost anything work with the possible exception of the Evil Eye of Galakras.
There's a title? Now I'm somewhat interesting p_O
I don't know how much of a difference Engineering will make (The helm is BiS for all classes and specs in challenge modes, plus the prof bonus of another cooldown is huge on rounds 4, 7, and 9 which can be tight if not done perfectly), but I wouldn't approach it lightly. I rated it as having a difficulty matching an upper level heroic raid boss made worse by the sheer length of 30 rounds.
08/09/2014 08:07 PMPosted by Snozberries
There's a title? Now I'm somewhat interesting p_O


The Proven Defender for tank endless, The Proven Healer for healing endless, and The Proven Assailant for DPS endless.
Only 2 to go .. \o/
08/09/2014 01:41 PMPosted by Cadenbrie

Tank DPS shouldn't be anywhere near an actual DPS, it shouldn't be negligible either but they don't have to be riding with the DPS on the meters for their damage to matter.

[/quote]I think somewhere around 'half a DPS' makes sense. I'm also referring to damage done, not raw DPS, which would therefore be under 1/2 DPS', given that the tanks will have pretty much perfect uptime, and the DPS generally won't.

FWIW, that's about where I'd put healers too, and unlike Blizzard I'd put the DPS OR heal specs higher than the heal with your DPS (e.g. Disc) ones. If you have to dump your healing almost entirely (like a Shaman) to throw out some damage, it should actually hurt something. Currently, forgetting to change from Resto to Elemental on TI, for example, means spending ages on a weak elite. Meanwhile our GM on her Disc priest just swaps to a DPS set and burns stuff down whilst healing anyone grouped with her.
I'd put healers with absolutely perfect gear (i.e. dps trinkets and zero wasted stats) at approximately equal to DPS damage because those should serve to keep healer dps well below DPS damage.
There's been times in the games where healers were doing that and it was.. extremely bad.
I don't know how it was previously, but I don't see what is wrong with a Holy Paladin doing the same DPS as a Ret Paladin assuming they have:
-The absolute minimum amount of spirit to hit cap
-Zero mastery
-DPS trinkets

The first two would require an absolutely perfect set of gear and isn't sustainable mana wise without serious changes to the mana costs of Holy DPS spells and the third isn't going to happen in progression.

In reality, you'd be well below a DPS and you'd almost always be better off bringing a DPS instead of having a healer DPS outside of extremely weird fights where you have enemies that need to be burst down during lulls in damage.
Alting it up for venting reasons. Wall o text inc.

So my guild (not this one, the one on my main) seemed pretty cool and I had a few friends in it. I left my old one to hang out with them. Theres this weird disparity between the members and the officers to where the officers run with pugs and such and are 12-13/14 heroic geared. Others hang around at 550/560. They are elitist over that fact and its somewhat condescending. There is never any guild runs either, despite them advertising to my friend that they were 6/14 heroic as a guild on their old server and rebuilding here, wanting to kill lots of stuff, etc. I didn't care about any of that when I came over.

So my friends finally formed a half guild half pug flex. Most of the people were alts and we were doing fine until about dark shamans when the tanks gear just wasn't good enough (they were like 500 ilvl). Most the DPS and healing were fine. We had like a 14/14h pug disc carrying. So the leader of the group asked one of the officers to come tank. He guilt tripped the leader by saying hes farming gold for something for somebody (more drama, but irrelevant) and said he'd go if the raid leader paid him. It wasn't a lot, but the concept of it pissed me off (I didn't know he was paid until last night, the run was 2 weeks ago.)

TL;DR PART: Since then, most of them have faction xfered alts off this server to play on another one because of this. They have formed their own guild and trying to get me to xfer over. Now that I know of this, I know I'm dropping this guild. I don't know what I want to do as far as the horde stuff. What makes it harder is one of my good friends, one completely unrelated to the guild stuff above is on that server. So I'm not sure if I want to send one of my horde toons there or not. I have a 90 warrior, 85 mage dk druid. I kinda wanted to bring one to proudmoore, but now I'm not sure.
Because I'm not talking about pve.
If they retained PVP Power or some other mechanic like that, Healer DPS in PVP wouldn't matter as PVP power didn't increase it and thus made it completely useless regardless of how much you could theoretically do in PVE settings.
and pvp power is gone.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum