MW healing in WoD

Monk
My goodness. I was thinking about playing the monk as my main in WoD. That's some bad stuff right there. The healing overall is just... bad...
If you don't mind giving us monks some space. We are currently grieving our long loved spec's death.
08/31/2014 10:29 AMPosted by Watchmefist
If you don't mind giving us monks some space. We are currently grieving our long loved spec's death.

Well according to Cele from Blizzard, apparently it is user error if your monk plays bad in WoD beta atm. Courtesy MMO Champion
Well, i'd like others take on this, before i issue a grievance of my own. Anyone currently play wod that can dish out the news on MW's at this point and time? Its been a bit since i heard anything new on how we stand in the current healing pool.
Our healing is fine. What the majority problem is, is a lot of mw monks can't get use to the changes. Also healing tuning hasn't been done yet. So before than judgements on the spec should just be taken with a grain of salt.
09/01/2014 08:51 AMPosted by Karaoke
Anyone currently play wod that can dish out the news on MW's at this point and time?


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13841494589

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1468935-WoD-s-proposed-Mistweaver-changes

Take a look for yourself. A lot of top end mistweavers giving good feedback just skip to the end of mmo for recent stuff. Multiple experienced sources make better research than just what one random guy here would tell you.
09/01/2014 04:20 PMPosted by Synae
09/01/2014 08:51 AMPosted by Karaoke
Anyone currently play wod that can dish out the news on MW's at this point and time?


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13841494589

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1468935-WoD-s-proposed-Mistweaver-changes

Take a look for yourself. A lot of top end mistweavers giving good feedback just skip to the end of mmo for recent stuff. Multiple experienced sources make better research than just what one random guy here would tell you.

I just tested MW in 5 mans. I just got the time today to do some LFR in WoD on a monk and was topping the charts. I don't get it, but I can't complain.
The real question comes down to this: In raid content, is there EVER a reason to take MistWeaver over another healer in WoD? Because right now in SoO mistweaver healing is terrible, we aren't anywhere near up to par, hence why we're so rarely seen in top 10's worldwide on logs.

Food for thought, Between all 14 fights of SoO, in 25m Normal, with the exception of the Malk fight, you only see 2 MW monks in any of the top 10's. Oh, and 25m Heroic, there isn't a single monk in the top 10 on any of the fights. That means out of 140 chances for 1 of 5 healing classes to make the list, monk isn't even getting on the board. I hate people just bashing specs without offering constructive criticism, but saying a spec is fine when the charts are topped by Druids and Shamans makes you look ignorant and uninformed.

MW monk healing is NOT fine. It is underpar and honestly, most progression guilds will probably be pushing their Mistweavers to roll resto Shamans. If you think Mistweaver is so balanced, explain why out of the top 10 on 14 fights (140 spots) not 1 monk makes the list.
09/02/2014 01:57 PMPosted by Moustached
The real question comes down to this: In raid content, is there EVER a reason to take MistWeaver over another healer in WoD?


Not currently. Mistweavers are basically RNG based resto druids with no utility.
Learn to fistweave and show the utility you can bring. Sometimes you need just that little bit of extra heals but are tight on enrage still. And that's if you're on progression now if you're on farm like those top guys... It doesn't matter anymore. Our big niche is fistweaving. You should see pugs light up when I pop in and they see I'm a fistweaver mostly
@Badkarma
This. What you just said is why I want to main my monk in WoD because of fist weaving actually being confirmed as an actual thing by blizzard. Not only that it just feels cool to be a "hybrid" type healer.
09/02/2014 02:12 PMPosted by Bâdkârmâ
Learn to fistweave and show the utility you can bring. Sometimes you need just that little bit of extra heals but are tight on enrage still. And that's if you're on progression now if you're on farm like those top guys... It doesn't matter anymore. Our big niche is fistweaving. You should see pugs light up when I pop in and they see I'm a fistweaver mostly


Do you really think pugs light up because they see a "FistWeaver" monk when fistweaving was pretty much destroyed by Blizz, or because a 578 gearscorer is in their raid?

No progression guild is going to give a half DPS/ half Healer a raid spot unless he's ALMOST healing as much as a regular healer and doing decent extra DPS, or ALMOST as much dps as a regular DPS plus decent healing on the side. Right now a full heals monk doesn't do enough HPS to warrant a position over a Shammy or a Druid, and a Fistweaver monk doesn't do enough DPS and healing combined to warrant him not just rerolling as a Shadow Priest or something.

Instead of telling us how your fistweaver is beloved by all, link the logs, and let's see how useful you actually are to a Heroic raid group (because Heroic is your gear level obviously) In your gear, any Normal or Flex raid will be excited to see you regardless.
09/02/2014 07:31 PMPosted by Moustached
09/02/2014 02:12 PMPosted by Bâdkârmâ
Learn to fistweave and show the utility you can bring. Sometimes you need just that little bit of extra heals but are tight on enrage still. And that's if you're on progression now if you're on farm like those top guys... It doesn't matter anymore. Our big niche is fistweaving. You should see pugs light up when I pop in and they see I'm a fistweaver mostly


Do you really think pugs light up because they see a "FistWeaver" monk when fistweaving was pretty much destroyed by Blizz, or because a 578 gearscorer is in their raid?

No progression guild is going to give a half DPS/ half Healer a raid spot unless he's ALMOST healing as much as a regular healer and doing decent extra DPS, or ALMOST as much dps as a regular DPS plus decent healing on the side. Right now a full heals monk doesn't do enough HPS to warrant a position over a Shammy or a Druid, and a Fistweaver monk doesn't do enough DPS and healing combined to warrant him not just rerolling as a Shadow Priest or something.

Instead of telling us how your fistweaver is beloved by all, link the logs, and let's see how useful you actually are to a Heroic raid group (because Heroic is your gear level obviously) In your gear, any Normal or Flex raid will be excited to see you regardless.


yeah and me doing 150k hps/150k dps is..bad
09/02/2014 07:31 PMPosted by Moustached
No progression guild is going to give a half DPS/ half Healer a raid spot unless he's ALMOST healing as much as a regular healer and doing decent extra DPS,


Well that's exactly why guilds would bring a Mistweaver and that's exactly what a good monk can bring, 50% a DPS and 100% HPS on demand. It is an undervalued raid utility.
The question isn't why bring a monk when you could have a shaman or druid, it is why bring a monk when you could bring a disc priest that could do it better.
Monks are not under powered but Disc outshine us enough to not be consider ultimately if you run a disc/MW comp you effectively have 2 tanks 7 dps and 2 healers making it equivalent to 11 players in a 10 man raid

09/02/2014 07:31 PMPosted by Moustached
Instead of telling us how your fistweaver is beloved by all, link the logs, and let's see how useful you actually are to a Heroic raid group


Feel free to check my logs out at anytime i'm sure you can find sufficient information that shows the value of fistweaving
Thanks guys for replying to this post. Loving everyone's inputs :)
fistweaving is average at best in wod. And our stacked healing has the possibility of being above average. Tuning isnt really the issue (although I think the MS -> REM -> uplift link will cause problems eventually), it's more of a mechanic and utility problem in WOD. Revivals niche is the smallest of any raid CD currently, and it's not looking much better in wod. incoming damage in waves? any of the hots effectively heal better, revival only being useful when it can be used to it's near maximal healing. Huge chunk of raid damage? it's rarely followed by another huge chunk, it's usually followed by a lull or very small damage, meaning there is time to heal up.

right now REM is only really worth casting for the chi, but if they increase it's healing, Multistrikes effectiveness increases, and uplift will be tuned down. OVertune uplift? you still increase MS viability because we want those extra REMS, and then we have the possibility of becoming to OP in aoe healing.

Our raid CD toolkit is the equivalent of a paper towel in terms of actual effectiveness in healing and situational use. Our AOE toolkit is primed and based on a 2 linked spells and now a stat we can gear for, which is not good considering we have multiple, very nice throughput abilities for stacked healing. I'd glady change RJW/Torpedo/CE/SCK for another viable AOE heal. REM currently has at least 18s ramp up time, which i guess may be slightly lessened with MS in WOD, but it is A) out of our control and B) we get absolutely, brutally punished when we can't hit it on CD, so things like MC, stuns, etc effectively can set us fairly far behind.

Our single target toolkit, while decent on healing, is horrendous. Our greater heal is essentially a hot that takes at least 1.5s to get out if we have chi, if we don't it takes even longer. Unfortunately EM's healing is only on par with other bigger single target heals when SOOM is continued to be channeled (~6). But basically everything we do, REM, uplift, EH, they all interrupt SOOM.

Right now we are in a very precarious situation but utility, and mechanics wise, that is affecting our ability to effectively heal a raid. All the throughput in the world wont help us if we cant heal who needs it.

If this post sounds broken I'm not really thinking clearly right now soooo yea
Donnie... look closely. closer, top right corner. 578 right? thats correct but if you put your face to the screen, youll see its 560 equipped. and additionally, you failed to disprove the point of a fistweaver is a utility available to a raid leader when, lets take my guild for example, last week we had a undergeared ww who is learning the spec, people leaving and people joining pre xpac, taking breaks etc. H malk. we were short on the enrage... by seconds, rng could kill it with some well timed crits blah blah, good puddles for melee to soak not killing downtime on boss, but no matter what cant give up that healer.

enter fistweaver.

09/02/2014 08:49 PMPosted by Donnieyen
Revivals niche is the smallest of any raid CD currently, and it's not looking much better in wod. incoming damage in waves? any of the hots effectively heal better, revival only being useful when it can be used to it's near maximal healing. Huge chunk of raid damage? it's rarely followed by another huge chunk,


i like to think you know better... but our sad excuse of a raid cd is actually crowned to zen med. additionally, id like to point you to xuen for a raid cd... or do you pop it at the pull for dps? all in all i think you need to step back, get off the /qqmonkWoD train at the next stop and take a second to realize, were not tuned in beta yet, so you cant base your opinion totally on what you see.

you speak of stuns and fears gimping us... built in trinket anyone? nimble brew btw. so seriously, gather your thoughts first.
The WoD changes aren't too shabby, especially compared to our present state. What concerns me is the lack of utility and Celestalon's response.

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