Ret Pallies have been pushed back to BC Woes

12/13/2010 1:43 PMPosted by Frixie
I usually pull 9-12k on dungeon bosses, but work way harder than pretty much every other class in doing so, and they generally do similar or better than me. If they could change one thing, I would go with the 3-second flat Crusader Strike cooldown, so that we don't NEED to stack Haste to stay competitive (and gimp other stats).

I liked your comment, to be honest it's the only change I would require to play this Paladin again. My main is a Rogue and I've been playing him for 3 years, so I'm not that upset over Holy power (combo points wannabe?) and Inquisition (Slice and Dice?).
12/13/2010 6:16 AMPosted by Xavierl
12/13/2010 5:57 AMPosted by Buenodin
How many people are gonna cry about Ret DPS? It's fine.. Ya don't like it, go lvl another class. This is the way that Blizz wants Ret to be, and I seriously don't think they'll ever scrap their entire design that they worked on for months, jus cuz people aren't geared enough or don't know how to play the spec

Paladin designs have been redone at least twice now. I'm just sayin'.

Vanilla beta, live vanilla, TBC, WotLK, caty beta, now.

Our best build was the very first new one in caty beta. They then decided to change SoB, which broke the feeling of ret (and broke zealotry which is still sticky plastered together). They then changed the mastery to HoL which added a ton more RNG to worry about, and broke the mastery stat. And then seem to have pretty much given up on working out how to balance GoAK to be worth pressing in both a 5 minute PvE fight and a 1 minute arena fight.

DPS is not even an issue for ret yet. We are still waiting on a finished beta build that actually works.

RNG would be fine if it added to complexity and left you having to choose to use it when it procs rather than the lower DPS spell you would have hit. The problem at the moment is that there are so many empty GCDs that rather than increasing the complexity of ret the RNG just adds to the frustration. If it procs you have something to press. If it doesn;t then you are left doing nothing while you wait a GCD or two for anything to come off CD.

And we have been telling blizzard that ret doesn't work for months and they have not taken a blind bit of notice. Not only have they failed to make it more complex, they have also managed to make it less fun.
I would like to change divine storm. It is absolutely worthless. There is no applicable situation in pvp or questing where DS would be beneficial. Yeah you get a small amount of AOE dps every 4 seconds or so (not affected by inquisition) with some negligible healing. From my experience questing I need any and all holy power I can get to heal myself during multiple add fights. Using DS wastes that HP opportunity and basically does nothing (unless you are killing very low level creatures). I would like to see DS generate holy power just as CS does to make DS worth using. A second suggestion would be to have DS have no CD and not generate HP. It's dmg is low enough anyways I don't think it would be OP. I couldn't see us DSing people to death... Any thoughts?
4 simple fixes.

1. stop judgment from afflicting us with entangling roots or frosh"from frost armor" and other effects like that.

2. flix seal of command and seal of justice. they are both garbage. i miss my chance to proc and do double damage. it was great. i dont want to cleave or 10% weapon damage, it just doesnt do enough to count. seal of justice is ONLY melee attacks and only last 5 seconds. if i manage to smack a frost mage he blinks away ( that little sprint they get isnt slowed by justice anyway) and before i can cast hand of freedom or cleanse to start catching he its gone again.

3. avenging wrath should not be affected by purge or spellsteal. you cant spellsteal a DK's magic barrier and i dont think you can purge it either. With it being such a crutch for us in pvp, losing it to a warlock pet or an instant cast is purely garbage.

4. gaurdian of ancient kings. i was fighting a rogue, i had the rogue targeted and was attacking him. i summoned GOAK. he randome runs off after some water elemental. WTF?! 5 min cd for him to attack an elemental and then just stand there? give us control of him for the measly 30 seconds we get it.

ive stuck to my pally for 6 years. and i've regretted it for four.
Personally, I did great while leveling although I'm assuming this is because i got that 417 dps 3.8 speed sword at 82 from stonecore. The pally I run heroics with is actually on top of meters a pretty good amount of the time. Additionally, some bosses we downed would have been wipes without his lay on hands, Holy Radiance and a few Word of Glory's.

I think it's a bit early to flame blizz for the changes they made to ret. Unless they are mathematically inferior to other dps and suffer from very uneven scaling, it's really just anecdotal complaining. The way I see it, ret is going to scale amazingly with haste and very well with mastery. The only problem I see is excessive dependence on RNG, but over the course of a boss fight, it evens out anyway. I really only see that as a potential problem for pvp.

I'm just saying, get to 85, get some gear, then see if it's really a problem or not.
You guys are funny.
I don't think you know "whatcha takin about Willis?" Get on a competitive server and find out what ret is really up against. Some of you people play on powder-puff servers and don't have a clue.
Even more luls at server eliteism. Funny thing is buddy, you are not even on a top 10 server.
ive never had a problem as DPS. though i can surely say our trash dps is kinda crap atm. but when boss time comes i pull atleast 10k and max out at 15k on VP with the air boss. so i dont see the problem but i have this feeling that there is.

yea i hate the RNG mechanic but i see how mastery helps me keep iq up almost 90% of the time in a dungeon and its always up during boss fights. its just a manner of timing i guess.

though admittedly there are times where ive used all my cds and things arent popping anymore so i just sit there with CS judge HW and conc to play with.

also i know im not heroic geared yet nor have i done a heroic dungeon i blame my bad luck on drops nonetheless i still beat heroic geared people on boss dps sometimes, even mages. everyone just has to accept that we arent going to be top dps but we are in some twisted wrong way competitive dps. its a steep learning curve that i refuse to learn too but since i love being a gay sparkling faceroller, LOL, ive gotten to terms with the system and cudos to the people who want to change it inspite of all the trolls i just hope blizz takes it the right direction.
I am not your buddy - and yes, you don't have a clue.
WoWProgress would like a word with you.

US Server Rank: 33

EU Server Rank: 17

Carry on being wrong buddy.
I know it's so fashionable to QQ about ret in these forums, but what about that paladin who came in 2nd place? I KNOW there was some thread talking about how he did it and it was all about managing inquisition. This guild and ret pally were on MMO champs guild firsts at downing some raid bosses
I know it's so fashionable to QQ about ret in these forums, but what about that paladin who came in 2nd place? I KNOW there was some thread talking about how he did it and it was all about managing inquisition. This guild and ret pally were on MMO champs guild firsts at downing some raid bosses

Dude, don't even try. Posting about other players doing well is cause for everyone to go "OMG anecdotal evidence doesn't count! I'm doing bad so Ret must be broken!"

These forums are only here for people to QQ and beg for easy mode Ret back. Any positive posts are immediately destroyed in the fires of Mount Doom.
Well, we are not that bad, but we ARE lower than everybody else (or most ppl anyway).

Blizzard tried to make us more dynamic, which is veeeery good, but the didn't know where to stop. Holy Power? It's kinda nice, something to watch for. Mastery? OK, something else to watch for. Divine Purpose? Well, another thing to watch for. Inquisition? A must have buff that we need to have all the time has a limited duration and costs HoPo (OK, so now we also have to watch out for the buff duration, which has no visual effects, besides that little square on the top of our screen with those tiny numbers, and also keep an eye on the amount of HoPo we have, so we can refresh it before it falls or shortly after.

They overdid it. We gotta watch out for those things and the enviroment (since healer's mana matters now, we can't just stand there watching those 3 things) now. Sure, you want more dynamic than watching out for 4 cooldowns, but really? All that?? Now couple that with:

- HORRIBLE ramp up time (if we get lucky and get procs, we are in a good state, if we dont get a proc every 8ish seconds, then we are worse than little girls trying to kill big elementals). Do we need to burn a mob down fast? Ret is the WORST spec for that (even affliction has that DoT swap thing).

- our CC is still awful, with a 1min duration AND cooldown, it sucks. We already can't PvP, why can't we have at least a good PvE CC? Give it a 45s duration and 30s CD or something. Couple it with a 2s cast! Anything works here! Seriously!!

- AoE also lags behind. Divine Storm has a CD (tied to Pillow Strike; doesn't even award a guaranteed HoPo) and doesnt hit that hard; Consecration has an enormous CD and costs more than half our mana; Holy Wrath shares damage between all targets. Can't think of anything imba to solve that.

- Seal damage is super low, seems like its there just so we can Judge*

- *Judgement is almost useless for damage. It's pretty much there to give us mana and for that 40% chance to get a HoPo. Don't even know why we have a prime glyph to bust that damage by 10%. Hope that is a joke (no offense).

- We REQUIRE to use 3 different cooldowns (Wings, Zealotry and Angel)?? How is it balanced when i have to use those 3 cooldowns, all those procs, be in melee range trying to position myself and avoid stuff, have that giganormous ramp up time, etc and etc, and do way less damage than a mage (who just stands there, watching out for 2 procs and 1 cooldown and once in a while move from bad stuff)?

Sure, we got a very good interrupt (which was AWESOME), but it doesn't compare to all that.

Oh well, hope they are trying to do the inverse of WotLK (where we got nerfed every single major patch). Hope......
I like the new ret rotation, im enjoying it taking more skill then rolling my face on the keyboard and doing decent dmg. The one thing i think really should change, is the mastery, if they made mastery an increased dmg based stat like most other classes, instead of an rng proc, it would make out rotation more steady and our dps less rng based.

Would be nice to see some blue posts on what they are thinking about at HQ because i see 90% more complaints then people actually liking the 'new' ret.
Agreed :/.
Some food for thought about INQ along the lines of Class mechanics being jacked:

I have a rogue. Its what made me think that this HP system MIGHT work a bit. I played assassination. Wanna know the worst ability in the tree? Hunger for Blood. Used to have to wait for a bleed, then activate this baby to do 15% more damage. Lasted for like 30 seconds. Was a pain in the ass waste of combo points and GCDs. Everyone hated it.. and blizz removed it.

And then they gave it to Ret.

Nerfed to the ground baby.. nerfed to the ground.
Honestly, I'm sick of seeing myself at the bottom of DPS and for the others pulling 9k+ DPS telling me that I need to go harder on DPS, which I can't. I'm sorry everyone. It is literally impossible for me to get higher DPS.

Paladins are broken.
Just the mastery is broken, the idea of paladins having to do more then just mash random keys is great, im glad we have a slice and dice kind of buff, will sort out the difference between those of us who are good, and those who just dont know how to play the game very well. Sure, there is addons to make this easier, but the great rets out there will have INQ up 100% of the time to maximize dps output. I wish they would change mastery to something a little more well thought out.

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