ret is so broken

Ret is definitely broken. However, don't expect Blizz to do anything about it. We've been saying it's broken since ptr and nothing has changed except some minor tuning. The entire mechanic is clunky and clumsy. Basically, it sux.

And for all you trolls who think I'm qq'ing, tough. You like it? Play it! I don't, and won't!
sooooo blizz isnt listening to us? the hell are these forums for then!?

Not trying to spite you, but I'll answer your question: the forums are for us players to talk to each other.

Bliz *might* listen or even participate, but they aren't required or obligated to do so.

Not directed to you, but I've always find it amusing when people post how they're only interested in talking to Bliz, and shut out other players responding to them. Or they'll just label naysayers as trolls/haters/bashers/idiots/etc.

To put it poorly, the forums are really just an offline trade/city chat. *Maybe* the blues are watching that too, but don't count on it like some sort of "bat phone" which connects straight to Wayne manor ;p
Scratch the idea of haste, I had a downer moment. You dont want to reforge haste until you can actually reach the soft cap because any haste over bringing Crusader Strike down below 2 globals (Which is 4 seconds) is a waste of a stat. For now reforge crit
Scratch the idea of haste, I had a downer moment. You dont want to reforge haste until you can actually reach the soft cap because any haste over bringing Crusader Strike down below 2 globals (Which is 4 seconds) is a waste of a stat. For now reforge crit


First of all, globals are 1.5 seconds. So one global would be 1.5, two would be 3.0, three would be 4.5 seconds. Where the heck are you getting 4 seconds from?

Also, math and testing has shown that stacking haste is preferable to not doing so, and if less than a GCD is left on CS, you wait until it comes off. Doing anything otherwise is a dps loss.
i can say i really dont have to use a order for attacks like others said just keep hiting attacks and u will do decent dps, *!@@ u can face roll ur key board and still do good dps in pve u just have to keep attacking, pvp i perfer prot spec do to the fact i have 2 friends (holy pally ret pally) that are constantly by my side we make a great team i dont die, and keep enamy in place ret does dps while holy heals. me and my friends who all love playing pallys havnt had a single complant about it, that wont get fixed soon like the crit *!@@ u kno blizz going to fix it just chill and wait for it
I made this character a couple of weeks before Cata came out as a pvp healer for my bf, however, I fell in love with ret. I hadn't played a ret pally since late BC, and I felt like it was time to pick it up again.

And, although I feel like ret needs some tweaking, I still enjoy playing it. My first ever Tol'Barad raid pug and I pulled 8-9k, while moving and using my holy power to toss out extra heals when needed.

(being under hit and expertise cap probably isn't the best idea either lol)

That being said, I hate waiting an hour for a pug heroic group and getting kicked from it for being a ret pally. I've had very bad experiences and very good experiences with heroic pugs so far. I've been kicked from a couple for low dps on boss fights, for healing when the healer dies or gets cc'd. Then I've had groups that say I was a terrific ret pally who also knew how to heal when the time called, and a few of those groups said they wouldn't have been able to do it if I was not there.

I miss the days where people didn't rely on meters or gearscores to process a person's ability to play their class. My friends bring me along because of my ability to pay attention and my ability to utilize skills to further better the party, not just up my dps like most dpsers out there.

So, I wonder if this is what blizzard is going for? A proc-based dps system that allows you to bring my party/raid utility while dpsing. Yes you're not going to top meters that way, but any good guild would recognize the efforts behind it.

Its kind of strange seeing soooo many familiar faces at odds with each other. Great Pallys that I have looked up to over the years. I have to agree with the supposed QQ'ers that there are some integral flaws with our system of and including:
Very High Ramp Up Time
Abilities Clashing (Zealotry, Mastery, and Divine Purpose are completely at odds)
Inquisition is just blech without using it with AW or the last 20 percent of the mob
And too much RNG with not enough sustainability

Though most of this could be fixed in 3/4 steps

-Make Hand of Light our 31 point Talent, Inquisition our Mastery, and Zealotry our level 81 ability
- Put CS back to 3 seconds and or up the ante on Divine Purpose
Retribution is fine, thanks blizz, now we can tell those who know how to hit buttons properly.
Good Rets will embrace the change, bads will spite it!
I don't know exactly what to tell you guys. I enjoy Ret more now than ever. The mechanics make it much more fun. It's no longer a faceroll rotation and I really like it. Much like the new healing mechanics, it's much easier to pick out the good ones from the bad ones now.
If it helps: what I focus on is Crusader strike and 1 *filler*. Much like elitist says, priority is Templaer's Verdict (with 3 HP), Hammer of Wrath (when available), Crusader Strike (to build holy power), Exorcism (hits the next hardest), Judgement, Holy Wrath, and lastly Consecrate (if nothing else is available, which will occur if you judgement to long arm into a mob/boss. I reccomend crusader striking first, creates a better rotation on cd's).
Be sure to take advantage of those HoL procs, but fit them into your crusader strike, filler rotation.. if you have a HoL proc and no holy power.. then crusader strike, templar's verdict, crusader strike, *filler*, crusader strike, templar's verdict again, not just pop it when you have it. also: I like to macro my Zealotry and Avenging Wrath together. Elitist says it's more dps to use them seperately, but I enjoy the massive crits with Templar's Verdict every other cd.
I love Haste, getting crusader strike to a 3 sec cd is priority to me over stacking str. In red gem slots i use str/haste, in yellow i use haste, and in blue i use hit/haste (and reforge extra hit into haste when needed).
I prefer Haste over mastery because I look at it like this. I can increase my chance for each auto attack to proc a HoL, or I can simply increase my auto attacks, in result increasing my procs. But haste also effects Truth dot procs speed, stacks Truth quicker, reduces the gcd on spells (exorcism, ect..) resulting in a greater dps increase. As for PvP, I think it's still a bit early to tell, but I do wreck many classes 1v1. If anyone else has any good reccomendation or any advice for me or other Ret paladins, Let us know XD thanks !
Most of this QQ originates from the fact that we actually have a rotation now, have a buff we need to keep up, and a CD other than Avenging Wrath.
If you're getting outdpsed by prot paladins and "shockadins", you need to quit the game.
Three things...

1. I have multiple 80+ toons and in reviewing the forums, every class appears to be complaining that their dps is broken or gimped, or below other classes at this point. Why should we be any different?

2. Wrath was way too easy. They watered it down to the point that casual players could pug the LK in hardmode. Never before has it been that easy, and it probably never will be again. At least not at first... and we are currently in the "first" stage. Don't expect to top the dps charts unless you can spend the time and effort to perfect your gear and rotation. It can be done, but not easily.

3. Recount is broken right now, or at least not reading/reflecting all the damage that is being done. All you have to do is compare the "DPS" page with the "Damage Done" page, and it becomes readily apparent. Example... I have seen DPS pages where I am dead last on the DPS chart, behind the tank; while at the same time I am first on the Damage Done page by a million points or more. Since this was not a situation where the rest of the toons took a couple fights off, it was pretty clear that one or the other... or possibly both... simply aren't correct. And you know that other people's recount never shows the same thing as yours... so what is missing?

People need to relax and quit QQ. And welcome back to wow... where all us casual players have to be careful what we try to do, unless we just want to wipe repeatedly. We can always do that.
@Droplet There is no real rotation its a priority system like it was in wrath with the extra addition of watching for a couple of procs and popping Inquisition which really is only marginal at best. With enough procs it can feel a bit more challenging but with no procs it is pretty bleh.
So the general consensus is that Retribution is just fine, completely comparable to every other DPS spec. If you can't keep up on DPS, according to the "pro" Paladins here, it's because of:

1. Not reforging or gemming properly

2. Never knowing how to play the game - Big help there, you guys should be motivational speakers. Just keep sitting on the tops of banks and/or other prominent locations with your rare mounts to show people just how special you are, kthnx.

3. Not reading countless guides and mathematical explanations on how to maximize your DPS - All the power to you guys for taking this game so seriously and wanting to be the best, but you're at the higher end of the gamer spectrum by all the effort you're putting into this. Just casually playing this character I shouldn't be noticing such huge discrepancies in my DPS compared with others, especially when I'm generally a very aware and responsive player. I've started playing and understanding my Ret Pally more than ever now trying to figure out what I'm lacking in, but I've reached the point where I'm overplaying just to keep up with the others who are casually DPS'ing.

I'm still leveling to 85 but my numbers so far have been horrendous in dungeons. At the same time I'm also leveling a DK with the same quest gear and he's been getting top DPS/Damage nearly every instance. I've read somewhere that Blizzard was aware of this and they were aiming at things being balanced at 85 and not really caring what's going on with your character until then. That may be the case but judging by all the posts I'm seeing about people with the same concerns as me it really makes me want to just play something else as I can already see how raid situations are going to be if you're not in an understanding guild or pug.

Sure, I can see why the people already at 85 who have some of the top gear maybe aren't seeing the differences. I think when gear balances out more and people actually start paying attention after the the mad-rush to hit 85 the flaws will be a lot more visible.

@Algren - 1. I have multiple 80+ toons also and there will always be many people whining, many of the other classes were definitely adjusted for the better, but I haven't seen any other class/spec so underwhelming than the Ret Pally yet.

2. The changes you're talking about didn't take in effect until the end of the expansion. ICC was out for so long that nearly any respectable raider had the best gear but if you weren't lucky enough to play as much as them due to real-life situations, you were never going to experience that same content, Blizzard at least realized this and made a lot of people happy so they could experience it too. Don't people remember how many times they were wiping when the content was still new and there weren't a dozen videos describing step-by-step how to defeat the bosses?

3. Maybe, but I haven't noticed it. I always check the two pages (Damage Done and DPS, even though Damage Done shows you your average DPS) and unless Recount has changed tremendously, if you're keeping up with the group the data is virtually the same in many cases.

I'd like to sit back and relax while I play WoW, but according to everyone here it's not possible if you want to achieve decent DPS as a Ret Pally.
I hate ret. But I think haste is greater than critical at the moment. Get more procs.
ok, i've been having trouble with this spec. with haste actually being useful to us now and trying to find the right balance and what's good and bad. i think the main change is that now we can no longer face roll. if you look at my build it's what it should look like imo. crit is important but not as important as it was in wotlk. mastery is NOT bad for ret pally's in fact it's a very very important thing for us but don't make it top priority if that makes anysense. you wanna get the hit cap and exp cap atm im not cap'd for either but i am capped for heroics and that's good enough for now. next you wanna try and get crusder strike and divine storm cool down down to at least 4 seconds standard (about 7 to 10 percent) next get your crit up but do not forget you need strength! if you can gem or enchant for strength do it when reforging drop master rating for higher priority stats. im still working on the balance of my mastery but with 15% mastery i can pull from 7 to 9k dps even hit 12k. your basic priorities are when fighting single target are judgement, crusader strike, consencrate, holy wrath, exo, zealotry, divine inquistion, wings, guardians of ancient kings, crusader, templar's verdict, judgement, holy wrath, exo, crusader, etc it takes a moment to build it up but once you get it going even if you have to move or run cons, truth, and your gaurdian are still keeping up dps along with a judgement, exo, holy wrath by the time you get back to melee your ready for another templar's verdict. it's what i use and again im still perfecting it but it appears im on the right path just need to find a way to make it more soloable.

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