Revoke the Shapeshifting change for Druids p3

General Discussion
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I feel like their glyph solution is needlessly complex. Just reading the glyph's effects it seems like it would be far simpler to just let the all-in-one button be glyphed, rather than having a glyph that has like three effects listed.
10/01/2014 06:37 AMPosted by Gorehelm
I'm with blizzard on this change. there is just way to many abilities for the druid


They aren't even abilities, they are shapeshifting forms. Please don't even speak if you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
A pointless change. I'm honestly surprised ANYONE believes this is a good idea..
I wish I could have been a fly on the wall when this idea was first mentioned at a Dev meeting. How was it proposed in such a way that anyone familiar with the game would say "yeah...okay then!"

They should have been laughed out of the meeting, as though they had proposed automatic stance changes for warriors and monks, automatic totems dropping for shamans, automatic pet summons and specs for warlock and hunters, and automatic presences for Death Knights. There is no difference in absurdity between any of those changes and the "new and improved" druid formspasm.
10/01/2014 06:37 AMPosted by Gorehelm
I'm with blizzard on this change. there is just way to many abilities for the druid


Let's see if you can support Blizzard once things go live and you see the relatively smooth rotation of Arms that we had has just gone seriously Down The Tubes. And yes, I do Main an Arms Warrior and have done a good chunk of testing on PTR. It's painful to see my Arms Warrior turned into a joke.

10/01/2014 06:47 AMPosted by Bawk
They aren't even abilities, they are shapeshifting forms. Please don't even speak if you don't know what the hell you're talking about.


Even though I don't main a Druid (never claimed to be a pro) I know the difference.

I will agree that perhaps on Live there are some abilities that exist for Bear & Cat but function a bit differently. Perhaps merging them (don't puke) where the spell morphs based on your current form (they can already do that) and having a single tooltip with "bleh bleh bleh, cat form bleh, bear form hleh." would help clean up the spellbook a bit.

That'd mostly be for tidying the spellbook, which is part of the feeling I'm getting Blizzard is aiming for.

My snarkmeter broke recently so I can't snark until its been fixed or I'd be making more scathing comments about what it seems like Blizzard's real goals are.
10/01/2014 07:12 AMPosted by Garimon
They should have been laughed out of the meeting, as though they had proposed automatic stance changes for warriors and monks, automatic totems dropping for shamans, automatic pet summons and specs for warlock and hunters, and automatic presences for Death Knights. There is no difference in absurdity between any of those changes and the "new and improved" druid formspasm.


Hush! You may give them ideas! Shamans already have a whole tier they've openly admitted is meh but they're not doing anything about it. They've had a Year to look at it but they've ignored it.

My Arms Warrior, who already is considering going on a bender would cry and whimper, even more than she already is.

My monk wouldn't be affected as we only get one stance. Unless they changed it, Brewmaster gets both the Damage Stance and the Tank Stance, Mistweaver gets two different Healing Stances. What does Windwalker get? One Stance. I won't go into my views of how they missed out on a lot of potential with Monks and Stances.

Auto-Totems ... we'd probably never even really notice it as almost all the Totems are on varying CDs anyway. Maybe the method from Cata had issues, but the way they did it in Mists feels even worse. Totems are an iconic Image to Shamans.

Auto-Pet ... yeah, No, nein, aucun, and many other words saying the same thing. I like my CoreHound as my go to pet for my hunter. My lock pretty much only uses the Voidlord and the Observer. (yes, I Googled no in several languages)

Auto-presence ... since I'm not a master Death Knight, I can't speak out really about pros or cons of stance switching. All I know is when I played Unholy, I never switched. When I switched to Frost, the only time I popped to unholy was for covering distances faster. But for actual combat? Frost only.
No, auto-shift is not "as if" any of those things. Those are combat abilities. Auto-shifting affects the aesthetics of running/swimming/flying.

Saying "nobody likes it" and that the only solution to the one problem it has is "change it back" is not going to get it fixed. Adding a glyph to enable it is not going to be done. I fear that with all the ineffective rhetoric on the subject Blizzard will just leave things as is, which would be a shame.

There is a fix possible. Blizzard even almost got it right in the patch notes. Then they implemented it wrong. My proposal would fix that.

So, other than removing the requirement to have at least one of Glyph of Travel/Stag/Cheetah, is there anything else you don't like about my proposal? http://us.battle.net/wow/en-us/forum/topic/14279268315
If they have to have the simplified option, it doesn't mean they have to remove the other manual methods. Just add "auto" and make it the default like mage portals or some such.

Travel Forms -> Auto, cheeta, stag, orca, seal, bird.

I am okay to add auto to reduce button bloat, but don't take away our ability to choose. This, at least, would be a choice.
They aren't going to let you switch to both Cheetah and Stag, or Orca and Seal, you'll have to choose, and the way you choose is with a glyph.

With Auto, Land, Water, Air there's never a reason to use Water or Air instead of Auto. Either Auquatic Form does nothing, or it does the same thing as Auto. Either Flight Form does nothing, or it does the same thing as Auto.

All you need is Auto and Land.
Re-upping my wholehearted support.
10/01/2014 12:55 PMPosted by Growltiger
So, other than removing the requirement to have at least one of Glyph of Travel/Stag/Cheetah, is there anything else you don't like about my proposal?


Maybe we (and I say this in general, I am in no way speaking for other Druids) don't like your proposal at all.

Maybe we like things the way they are right now in game. We don't want this change that they want to force us to accept and no amount of "proposals" from you will make us feel better about losing an iconic part of being a Druid.
What are you losing?
10/01/2014 07:12 AMPosted by Garimon
I wish I could have been a fly on the wall when this idea was first mentioned at a Dev meeting. How was it proposed in such a way that anyone familiar with the game would say "yeah...okay then!"


My snarkmeter has been fixed.

"Ok, we've ruined almost every other class in some form or another. That fulfills our contract to drive as many players away to EA. They paid us a lot of money to do this after all, and we really need the money."

"Sir? Sir! I have an idea!"

"Yes?"

"How about we merge uh .. Stag, Flight Form and Seal into a single button. Since the game doesn't allow flight, nobody will notice anything has changed. And when they do, well, we'll lose a bunch of druids, especially off those RP servers we've wanted to dispose of. They'll leave and they'll be ripe for EA to snap up!"

"Bob ... excellent idea. Someone, promote him to assistant of Druid Design."

"But sir, he's the Janitor!"

Yes, hardcore snark there.
10/01/2014 02:23 PMPosted by Growltiger
What are you losing?


We are losing the ability to shift into any form, at any time, no matter where we are in the world.
09/30/2014 07:17 PMPosted by Verdre
The fact you said cross-shifting (I just really noticed that) says that this is mostly a Guardian/Feral issue. I don't know of any major form-changing that Resto has to do. Boomies will mostly form change to either escape or survive for a bit longer.

Having seen the Guardian Spec list of abilities and how many of them were shared with Feral ... I would have to agree that some trimming was necessary.

Was your issue with the number of forms, or the fact that too many abilities required cross-shifting to perform your "role"?


Yes, I realize that part is not really relevant to the topic at hand, but back when feral was both tank and dps, it was a real pain to line up similar abilities between the forms. For example, Swipe had a cat version and a bear version so I created a macro that would change the ability based upon the form I was in.

My druid's primary spec is boomkin, so that is certainly not a big deal for me. I was just trying to establish a historical baseline for my comments.
10/01/2014 02:38 PMPosted by Maëlle
10/01/2014 02:23 PMPosted by Growltiger
What are you losing?


We are losing the ability to shift into any form, at any time, no matter where we are in the world.


Which is an unacceptable change.

I`m late to the druid party as I`ve played a priest from vanilla-cata. But i rolled a druid with MoP and I LOVES HER. I love shape shifting at will. And I don`t want to waste yet *another* glyph spot on something that was never broken to begin with.

If they want to cut down on buttons that`s cool. But then they should have made it like totems, or portals with a drop down menu.
10/01/2014 02:38 PMPosted by Maëlle
We are losing the ability to shift into any form, at any time, no matter where we are in the world.

No, that's what's wrong with Blizzard's implementation. You were criticizing my proposal. What are you losing with my proposal?
10/01/2014 03:42 PMPosted by Growltiger

No, that's what's wrong with Blizzard's implementation. You were criticizing my proposal. What are you losing with my proposal?


Complete control. You want a form of "auto shift" which, as many others have said, isn't fixing the problem. Yes it makes the problem easier to pallet by only making water/fly forms merged, but it doesn't address the big issue. Why was choice, even amongst something small, removed at all?

I see what you're trying to propose, (and pushing really really hard for btw, kinda too hard) but it doesn't fix the core argument. Blizzard told Druids "you aren't able to do this on your own, WE are going to choose for you." That is the core issue here, not the fact that the auto change isn't something that can be tweaked.
10/01/2014 03:42 PMPosted by Growltiger
No, that's what's wrong with Blizzard's implementation. You were criticizing my proposal. What are you losing with my proposal?


I am not criticizing your proposal. I simply do not like your proposal, just as I do not like the changes that Blizzard plans to make to Druid shapeshifting.

Nothing short of Blizzard realizing that this change is completely wrong will get me to change my mind. And no "proposal" of any kind will make me feel better about the oncoming storm that is surely to hit when WOD launches.
Bumping for page 25. Lame change and I don't want to waste a glyph form for this on my druid when it took zero action bar space on account of forms having their own special action bar.

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