so Lone Wolf...

Hunter
10/15/2014 10:17 AMPosted by Kaming
10/15/2014 10:11 AMPosted by Verdash
...
I'd had the same opinion (well, certainly less volatile, but in general, I did agree petless was silly) about petless hunters, and there is more justification for melee hunter than there ever was for petless hunter.

And the idea as presented wouldn't take anything away from hunters who like ranged combat, unlike Lone Wolf which takes away a talent choice from those who like there pets.

But the thing is we have melee combat and most high end hunters i talked to !@#$in hated it. Plus we always were the first to get kicked cause "All loot is Hunter Loot". Trust me it just wouldn't work in today's game.

I would expect this glyph to be just as competitive as that "Tank Glyph" warlocks had. Which means, any weapons you got, were left overs, so it would really be more for fun than anything else.

Btw, I am not sure how you could ever really say melee combat sucked for hunters (at least based on what I am hinting at). Our melee was never meant to be fully functional (outside of some ancient, quirky, Survival specs in vanilla), it was only meant to have something to do when the target was in our face.

This would be expanding on something we used to have (arguably "viable" melee capabilities), by sacrificing the majority of our ranged damage.

10/15/2014 10:17 AMPosted by Ingredients
i feel like "those who like there pets" play bm which completely changes the talent.

Plenty of ranged users like their pets too, and they are shorted a talent point basically (or forced into it, if it is optimal and they want to be as competitive as possible). A glyph wouldn't make it any less mandatory, but you aren't shorted a talent. (Arguably, opinion on how much of a distinction that is).
10/15/2014 04:34 AMPosted by Gìmli
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No, actually, it has been requested a lot as far back as vanilla. It might not have been one of the topmost requested features but it definitely has been oft requested. I know I used to participate in threads about it a lot in BC and Wrath. But it's just one of those things we never actually expected to happen since pets are like a total component to the class.

Frankly I'm super happy we got it as an option.


News to me. Oh well, as I said I feel like it's just a talent that baits newer people into picking something that looks fun but is actually liek the worse choice you could go with. Exotic Munations looks way too good.


I definitely requested lonewolf. I will use the talent almost exclusively in WoD. Masters call is a small trade off for lonewolf. RoS i never use i don't pvp and spirit bond i only used on malkorok. Ironhawk all the way.

Honestly can't u make a macro. Call pet 1 /cast Masters call?

Then u just need to decide if there is 20% left on the boss gimp your dps and keep your pet out or if it is the beginning of the encounter u take the small dps loss to dismiss pet. Why would that not work? Call pet isn't on the gcd or wasn't before as far as i know.
10/15/2014 11:05 AMPosted by Armyn
Call pet isn't on the gcd

I thought it was?

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=883
According to that, it is.
10/15/2014 12:18 AMPosted by Àkira
10/15/2014 12:16 AMPosted by Rekuja
What happens to Masters Call?

do we lose stampede, blink strikes, spirit bond, etc etc.. are they just blank talents if we pick Lone Wolf?


iirc you don't benefit from spirit bond/ masters call, or roar of sac if you choose lone wolf. The talent itself gimps you completely.


That seems like a huge oversight but the fact that they know and don't care just makes it wrong. Warlocks have their entire talent tree overhauled if they pick the Grimoir of sacrifice. They get their pets ability, they get a damage boost and the talents that require their pet to work boost them directly somehow, instead. What is this bs?
Not an oversight, working as intended.
10/15/2014 01:03 PMPosted by Sidisa
They get their pets ability, they get a damage boost and the talents that require their pet to work boost them directly somehow, instead.

Well, we do get a buff under Lone Wolf, and there is a damage boost.

They just failed to make Master's Call, Roar, Spirit Bond (maybe?), Blink Strike (reasonable actually) or Intimidation (also reasonable) work with it.

Conflicting Talents in of themselves are not that bad of an idea, but you are right in that a major preservation tool (Soul Link) was maintained under GrimSac.

We can summon instantly though, unlike locks you have a cast time summon outside of a cooldown.
I am one of the people who wanted Lone Wolf. There are countless Ranger/Hunter classes in other games that aren't based on having a pet. In fact...WoW is one of the first primary games to appoint a pet to a Hunter/Ranger class as being a mandatory feature.

I have never liked having a pet and it was one of the primary reasons I didn't play a Hunter in Vanilla up to Cata when I finally said F' it I'll try it out.
I was one who also wanted Lone Wolf, but the way it interacts with the class currently is a pretty drastic oversight, but more so on the talent With or Without You as a whole.

While Lone Wolf conflicts with that of our base line utility mechanics, and makes certain talents in the tree worthless (an idea I thought blizzard said they were moving away from with the change to the current talent system) Adaptation has problems of its own for BM. It shifts the damage ratio far too much to the pet with the 35% extra damage it gives to the Combat Experience passive. If you combine that with Blink Strikes, which increases basic attacks by 50%, that's a lot of modifiers that will make the pet hit far too hard. The spec ends up playing itself.

An easy fix for it really would be to make it conflict with Blink Strikes in some way so that the ratio isn't shifted so much to the pet for BM. I know it's the pet class, but a ratio of 60/40 where the Hunter is more in control of the damage is a far better weighting than shifting that much damage to the pet.

Also, one could argue that Master's Call is as vital to a Hunter's survival as Soul Link would be for Warlocks. Without that mobility to kite, the Hunter is quite squish.
You are still able to summon a pet with Lone Wolf. You simply won't get the 30% damage bonus the talent provides.
Honestly if Masters Call worked with Lone Wolf somehow, I'd take the talent in a heartbeat...

EDIT: wait wait wait.... we can take Lone Wolf and make a Macro that summons pet, masters call, dismisses pet?
can't seem to edit my post again, anyway....

Lone Wolf doesn't affect aimed shot? i thought it did... or is this a tooltip error?
Bad tooltip, it buffs aimed shot, chimera shot, steady shot, and I think auto shot for MM
10/15/2014 04:10 AMPosted by Gìmli
Wait a second who the !@#$ wanted this? Please show me threads.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/search?q=petless&f=post&forum=1012664

I literally just typed "petless" into the search bar.

want me to link each and every thread too or are you at least capable of doing that yourself?

10/15/2014 04:27 PMPosted by Rekuja
wait wait wait.... we can take Lone Wolf and make a Macro that summons pet, masters call, dismisses pet?


Absolutely possible but with the cast time on dismiss pet, eh.

10/15/2014 11:09 AMPosted by Verdash
10/15/2014 11:05 AMPosted by Armyn
Call pet isn't on the gcd

I thought it was?

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=883
According to that, it is.


Recent change if you're wondering, Armyn.
10/15/2014 04:27 PMPosted by Rekuja
EDIT: wait wait wait.... we can take Lone Wolf and make a Macro that summons pet, masters call, dismisses pet?


If you want to spend a GCD and a 3 second cast time, sure.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

iirc you don't benefit from spirit bond/ masters call, or roar of sac if you choose lone wolf. The talent itself gimps you completely.


That seems like a huge oversight but the fact that they know and don't care just makes it wrong. Warlocks have their entire talent tree overhauled if they pick the Grimoir of sacrifice. They get their pets ability, they get a damage boost and the talents that require their pet to work boost them directly somehow, instead. What is this bs?


Warlock "pets" aren't really pets. They're tools. They're demonic beings locks summon, use, then throw back into the void when they don't need them anymore. For hunters pets are supposed to be companions and teammates between whom there should be a deep bond. That's why they give us rares to camp, challenge tames, the decisions about which pet to keep vs abandon should be an actual decision. Locks don't get any of that.

My only two mains have been a Warlock and this Hunter. I can tell you a lock sac'ing her pet is a very lock thing to do. It's antithetical to the hunter class. That's why this Lone Wolf talent is such a bad idea. It's meant to appeal to people who, justifiably, want a ranged petless class. I'd totally roll one. I just think adding it as an end game talent to hunters is a cheap ghetto way to do it. Don't go against the very essence of one class to do a half-assed attempt at the feel of what should be another.

IDK why with a year of no new content Blizz couldn't have added at least one more class in WoD. Instead they're allowing the abomination of pet less hunters. Hunters are a pet class. If you don't want a pet don't roll a hunter. If you want a pet less ranged class (I'd love one!) bug Blizz for one.

All this is moot anyway since we're stuck with the talent. At the very least I hope it sucks enough for it to be hardly ever used! Hunters are and should be a pet class. If you don't want to deal with a pet then don't roll one.
I want my pet to go on an adventure and bring me back stuff.

Helpful Wikky's Whistle pretty much this

now I'm wondering where I put that thing.
Lone Wolf is to hunters as Gladiator's Resolve is to prot warriors. I think Glad Stance is awesome (and I wish my protadin had something similar, since your typical paladin/cleric type in fantasy usually uses a sword/hammer and shield), but Lone Wolf feels kinda lame...it's 100% worthless to an entire spec (let's give up half my damage to gain 30%!) and is mutually exclusive with a few other talents and our escape.

I know people have been begging for something like this since Classic (and sure, that's fine) since there isn't a true "ranger" class (what Lone Wolf essentially becomes). Hunters are a mashup of beast masters and rangers, and while enhancement shamans have that sort of beast master feel (with Spirit Wolves), nothing quite pulls off that ranger/archer vibe. Yes, it's not a "WoW hunter" thing to be without a pet, and no beast master would ever harm his companions (as opposed to a power-hungry warlock who uses their minions exclusively for personal gain), but filling the niche for the true ranger class should be there. When I first started playing in Classic, I wanted a "ranger" class, but settled for hunter (and hey, pets were nice so you didn't have to kite everything). I've fallen in love with my pets over the past 10 years, but again, there isn't a ranger class in the game. (I've always played archer-types in RPGs ever since I was a kid)

WoW has pretty much every fantasy archetype covered (priests, clerics, magi, fighters...pretty much everything but a true necromancer [that is, a caster that summons the dead...DKs aren't casters]) now that we have a ranger.
I don't think Lone Wolf and Gladiator stance compare. At all. I feel a better comparison would be looking at Lone Wolf and comparing it to a Warlock's talent with sacrificing their pet. Why is this an important comparison? They kill off their pet and gain abilities from it, as well as gain single target benefits. Thus, looking at our Lone Wolf talent, they compare with the single target damage, but we are sadly losing our pet benefits from it.

I feel with most of you on this topic. A solution to the problem would include the following:
-Make Spirit Bond a passive self heal every 3 seconds. Call it Versatility of the Lone Wolf or some magic like that, where you gain health back with some silly tooltip that allowed it. It's not hard to make flavor text giving it that advantage.
-Master's Call needs a substitute. Whether it's a root removal, or something different altogether. It's not fair to have spells excluded from our book just because a hunter chooses to go without a pet. Let's be real here, there's not much of a choice and you'll want that 30% gain. I understand it should have some negative draw backs, but how about make Focusing Shot or Exotic Ammo more inticing as well?

There's more we can think of surely, and it's not too late to conduct ideas to have them listened to.
Lone Wolf: give up some utility for more damage and lower liability (especially on target-swap fights). In PvE, Master's Call has VERY limited use, and Spirit Bond (outside of Malkorok) is way worse than Exhilaration or Iron Hawk (because Spirit Bond doesn't work there are periods you're at 100% HP). Sure, you lose Blink Strikes (which I prefer because I like passive stuff over long cooldowns), but MoC and Stampede are definitely viable alternatives. You still get the raid aura buffs with Lone Wolf, so that aspect of utility still remains.

Exotic Munitions is my favorite for 100, but that's just me. Autoshots become the original incarnation of Explosive Shot...
Wait......why do Lone wolf hunters have to give up utility because they chose not to use a pet? Both play styles should be viable, and players shouldn't be punished because of some incorrect perception that the class is somehow 'pet-based'. The intention of Lone Wolf should have been to take the damage the pet did, and add it to the player (+some extra damage since choosing Lone Wolf prevents you from selecting another lvl100 talent). While playing without a pet removes quite a bit of liability, it also takes away the inherent benefits of a pet, like aggro, which I think is a fair trade-off.

It really doesn't make sense to have lone wolf be a talent, MM hunters just shouldn't get pets, or maybe it should be a toggle thing. Sesamee's 's suggestion of a petless ranged physical damage dealing class would've been the best solution but since they've decided to implement it this way, they've now got to deal with all these core abilities that have become useless. I was really hoping they'd have this all sorted out by November.

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