Military leader of the Alliance

Story Forum
Heh, maybe its just me, but I couldnt help but grin abit after reading that description of Varian in the quest. Regardless of your own belief, lorewise Varian is purely a MILITARY leader of the Alliance.
Which is still dumb considering he's ~40 years old and there are plenty of 10,000 + year old Night Elves and Draenei with more life and war experience than him.
10/15/2014 11:14 PMPosted by Yagarr
Which is still dumb considering he's ~40 years old and there are plenty of 10,000 + year old Night Elves and Draenei with more life and war experience than him.


To be fair, some of those 10,000+ year old people can do some pretty dumb things. Even back in Warcraft 3, Tyrande was casually murdering night elven Wardens to free someone who betrayed her own race.
10/15/2014 11:14 PMPosted by Yagarr
Which is still dumb considering he's ~40 years old and there are plenty of 10,000 + year old Night Elves and Draenei with more life and war experience than him.


And most of them were not as fit for war as he was.

Tyrande is good on defensive war, but overextends herself on Offense, Velen is not warlike enough etc.
He has no business being both a allied military commander and a faction leader, it's a conflict of interest. Garrosh is a prime example of what can happen when someone with conflicting interests has less than honorable interest and a crapton of power with no checks and balances.

Eisenhower resigned from the military when he ran for president to prevent such a concern.
10/16/2014 01:14 AMPosted by Anyaceltica
He has no business being both a allied military commander and a faction leader, it's a conflict of interest. Garrosh is a prime example of what can happen when someone with conflicting interests has less than honorable interest and a crapton of power with no checks and balances.

Eisenhower resigned from the military when he ran for president to prevent such a concern.

I actually agree here. It really should be someone more along the lines of Shandris, Crowley, or Maraad than a racial leader like Varian, Tyrande, or Muradin.
10/15/2014 11:14 PMPosted by Yagarr
Which is still dumb considering he's ~40 years old and there are plenty of 10,000 + year old Night Elves and Draenei with more life and war experience than him.


i dont get the obsession with age so many story forumers have

someone being old doesnt automatically make them a god

not only that, the older someone is, the more set in their ways they are

varian being young actually means he's flexible and can work with these old farts instead of being them

i mean, tyrande murdered her way through the watchers she appointed to save illidan, a known egomaniac, on the chance that he might work as a tool against the legion

as well as murdering the orcs and humans committing the crime of cutting down the woods

that doesnt strike me as a person with the flexibility in beliefs to lead a multiracial, multiethnic group

especially not a draenei, either, theyre literal aliens whos greatest feat in war was to get slaughtered by the thousands (by the same army humanity beat, coincidentally)

besides, at the time, the enemy was the orcs

varian and other humans have been fighting them for at least three decades, whilst the night elves have for one, at most

not only that, but humanity also has the experience of leading a multiracial coalition

given the obsession with 'experience' that so many of you guys use to decry humanity having any position of authority, wouldnt that automatically place varian at the top? :V
as well as murdering the orcs and humans committing the crime of cutting down the woods

Foreign invaders that walked onto her lawn and began destroying her home.

Sorry, she was entirely justified in doing so prior to the Legion's arrival.

besides, at the time, the enemy was the orcs

varian and other humans have been fighting them for at least three decades, whilst the night elves have for one, at most

If SAC authority ended at "against the Horde", he wouldn't really be SAC right now.

not only that, but humanity also has the experience of leading a multiracial coalition

And while this is true of humanity, I do feel I must point out that Varian was like... Six when the Alliance of Lordaeron was founded, and was hanging out in Lordaeron Palace with little Arthas while Lothar and friends were gaining the experience you were discussing.

given the obsession with 'experience' that so many of you guys use to decry humanity having any position of authority, wouldnt that automatically place varian at the top? :V

Quite frankly, no.

The argument would work wonders for a character like Wyrmbane(who actively leads an elite multinational force into battle, or Danath Trollbane (who successfully kept a force of Humans, Dwarves, and Elves together while being stranded on a hostile husk of a dead world for twenty years), but not Varian Wrynn.

In my opinion, he's a fine king, but in terms of leading a military, he's not even the most qualified human for the job.
10/15/2014 11:27 PMPosted by Maethil
Tyrande was casually murdering night elven Wardens to free someone who betrayed her own race.


The wardens actually attacked her first because they were insane from spending so much time underground and obsessing over their duty. Tyrande held dominion over them and told them to stand down. They didn't, and they attacked her. Tyrande was forced to kill her way through to Illidan in order to free him.

10/16/2014 09:30 AMPosted by Kalye
as well as murdering the orcs and humans committing the crime of cutting down the woods


It wasn't cutting down woods, by the point Tyrande enters the WC3 campaign it's about the death of Cenarius. Orcs killed Cenarius, and Humans were working with Orcs. Therefor, Humans were the enemy. Furthermore she worked with them just fine in the battle of mount hyjal, to the point where she gained a lot of human friends and even maintains Thrall as a friend.
10/16/2014 09:46 AMPosted by Cártian
Foreign invaders that walked onto her lawn and began destroying her home.

Sorry, she was entirely justified in doing so prior to the Legion's arrival.


maybe, but it was still a rash and violent reaction; her first response to was kill everyone instead of, say, sending a guy out there to say 'cut that !@#$ out, people live here'

the alliance was on the losing end of a world war; reckless endangerment was not what they needed from a leader

10/16/2014 09:46 AMPosted by Cártian
If SAC authority ended at "against the Horde", he wouldn't really be SAC right now.


the next enemy is still a horde :J

10/16/2014 09:46 AMPosted by Cártian
And while this is true of humanity, I do feel I must point out that Varian was like... Six when the Alliance of Lordaeron was founded, and was hanging out in Lordaeron Palace with little Arthas while Lothar and friends were gaining the experience you were discussing.


varian was 15 when he first arrived in lordaeron, and was already crowned when it came time to discuss what to do with the orcs

but still, thats fair

10/16/2014 09:46 AMPosted by Cártian
The argument would work wonders for a character like Wyrmbane(who actively leads an elite multinational force into battle, or Danath Trollbane (who successfully kept a force of Humans, Dwarves, and Elves together while being stranded on a hostile husk of a dead world for twenty years), but not Varian Wrynn.

In my opinion, he's a fine king, but in terms of leading a military, he's not even the most qualified human for the job.


also fair

wyrmbane would be the best, i think

but then i also just want to see more of the 7th legion lol
If I were a king giving the most troops to an alliance I would see to it that I lead the military forces myself or put one of my own commanders in charge.

maybe what the alliance needs is no a military leader.
varian was 15 when he first arrived in lordaeron, and was already crowned when it came time to discuss what to do with the orcs

... Was he 15? I thought the Arthas and Tides of Darkness novels had both Varian and Arthas as little kids. My mistake.

10/16/2014 10:00 AMPosted by Steppenvwulf
If I were a king giving the most troops to an alliance I would see to it that I lead the military forces myself or put one of my own commanders in charge.

maybe what the alliance needs is no a military leader.

It needs Supreme Theatre Commanders, as I stated in the other similiar thread.
10/16/2014 10:05 AMPosted by Cártian
It needs Supreme Theatre Commanders, as I stated in the other similiar thread.


And all of their command-ships would be named the HMS Pinafore...

sounds like a plan if they are all answering to a Secretary General.

though what you're does make sense, at least until an expeditionary force is needed.
10/16/2014 09:52 AMPosted by Mordahn
10/15/2014 11:27 PMPosted by Maethil
Tyrande was casually murdering night elven Wardens to free someone who betrayed her own race.


The wardens actually attacked her first because they were insane from spending so much time underground and obsessing over their duty. Tyrande held dominion over them and told them to stand down. They didn't, and they attacked her. Tyrande was forced to kill her way through to Illidan in order to free him.

10/16/2014 09:30 AMPosted by Kalye
as well as murdering the orcs and humans committing the crime of cutting down the woods


It wasn't cutting down woods, by the point Tyrande enters the WC3 campaign it's about the death of Cenarius. Orcs killed Cenarius, and Humans were working with Orcs. Therefor, Humans were the enemy. Furthermore she worked with them just fine in the battle of mount hyjal, to the point where she gained a lot of human friends and even maintains Thrall as a friend.


I don't know about that, I was playing WC3 and I seem to remember them not aggroing till you cross a specific line.

She may have had a rank but it would require a council to be convened before any decision on Illidan was made. Plus he wasn't sentenced by her, but by Malfurion the older secular authority that answered to Jarod at the time.
Humans were clearly attacking elves in WC3, I remember it becaused I played a lot of it. Then Tyrande took out Duke Lionheart like a boss. Smoked him like a cheap cigar.

Then she proceded to lay waste to Horde and Alliance.

My guess is the HIgh Elves might have told the Alliance to attack the Night elves anyway. Kaelthas recognized the Night Elves right away, would stand to reason others high elves would also have recognized them but said. "Go ahead and wax them critters!"

The only questionable thing is the Wardens, at no point did I see them going insane, if if I recalled, they were under orders from Malfurion Stormrage to keep Illidan under lock and key.

In Tide of Terror

Maiev had a bone to pick with Tyrande about killing her Wardens but Malfurion said "ENOUGH!" and Maiev dropped the matter with a simple "Yes Shando".

So, no those Warden weren't insane, they were doing their job task to them by Malfurion, even Malfurion was like "NO! I forbid you to go over there!"

But Tyrande pretty much told him to kiss her purple !@#.
10/15/2014 11:08 PMPosted by Zerde
Regardless of your own belief, lorewise Varian is purely a MILITARY leader of the Alliance.
It doesn't say that. All it said was he was leader of the Alliance military.

He is also:
-King of the Humans
-God/Alpha of the Worgen
-Defacto High King of the Alliance
-Chosen/Avatar of demigod Goldrinn
-Wiser than any immortal

Why would him also being the sole leader of the Alliance military cancel all those other jobs he's doing at the same time?
The problem with those old leaders is that they are usually set in their ways and use old-fashioned tactics, which worked well for them, against a enemy with modern tactics.
I swear most of these complaints would have been avoided if they simply kep the supreme commander title instead of high king.
10/16/2014 04:18 PMPosted by Threeslotbag
He is also:
-King of the Humans
-God/Alpha of the Worgen
-Defacto High King of the Alliance
-Chosen/Avatar of demigod Goldrinn
-Wiser than any immortal


None of these(san Chosen of Goldrinn and High King of the Alliance) are true.

10/16/2014 04:18 PMPosted by Threeslotbag
It doesn't say that. All it said was he was leader of the Alliance military.


Do you really want me to link every last tweet from a Blizz rep that mentions they want Varian to be purely a military leader. Look, disregard it or get angry about it, Varian is lorewise purely a military leader of the Alliance. I found that particular quest poignant if only because Blizz is basically slapping you with a sign "hey Varian is only a military leader, we used that term deliberately", and yet people still managed to ignore it.
10/16/2014 08:42 PMPosted by Zerde
Varian is lorewise purely a military leader of the Alliance. I found that particular quest poignant if only because Blizz is basically slapping you with a sign "hey Varian is only a military leader, we used that term deliberately", and yet people still managed to ignore it.
Wow, that's a lot of information, context, and emotion to read into a single sentence fragment under a portrait saying "Military Leader of the Alliance". I guess I failed to "read between the lines" the 9999 words Blizzard told you between the 5 words there.

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