Didn't you listen about the models 3! :D!

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Welp, since this thread is doing so well and cannot be killed by post capping, it shall be created again!

Here's the first thread: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/14881218044
Here's second if you want to see it too: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/14882078352

((Another good thread to check out, cataloging all the model threads on the board: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/14880668498 ))

Alright ya'll, as a recap, I'm re-posting the list from the original thread placed before;

Here's a list of the major points brought out in many of the threads (and adding in some points:

General issues with most race models:
    Strange and ungainly animation, usually in casting.
    WEIRD running animation that causes strange skippy motion without running boosts/ect.
    Hair is clipping and breaking through helms (it works for my hairstyle, but definitely not for others)
    Cloaks are clipping badly with spines
    (In fact, cloaks themselves have seemed to gain sentience and are trying to fly off of us.)
    Weapons and shields are clipping badly and cutting into body parts while on the back and in attack poses.
    Older armor isn't fitting properly on many models, horrible rigging and stretching abound.
    Many hairstyles have become flat and lifeless, as well as static as if made of steel, and look horribly messy
    Eye and nose shapes are all similar on many female (and some male) models, causing 'same face syndrome' (ex: http://i.imgur.com/6Bwgj6n.jpg ))
    Eye GLOWS are vanishing or clipping through the face, way too bright or not there at all.
    Suddenly a lot of us seem to need anger management with casting/riding/ect. What is everyone so angry at?!
    Furthermore, in some animations some races are loosing their teeth! (orcs for one!)


Tauren Females:
    Weird open mouths during idle
    Our spotted skins ripped off from male skin
    Noses these weird half cut llama noses instead of full pads like old models
    Hair and eye colors randomly changed
    Still odd jumping animation
    Sitting down lifts our robes up revealing invisible legs/torso and floating feet (we got the 'Drafty Leg Syndrome' from the Draenei males!!)
    ONLY 4 faces!!
    ....Why do I look like I just rolled around in volcanic ash instead of having black fur?


Tauren Males:
    Nose is NOT in any form that of a cow, they at least have their mouths closed
    Only 5 faces!!
    Strange kind of prancing-stomp run
    Seriously, what's up with the coat colors being oddly changed to different shades?


Gnome Females:
    Suddenly all of them are angry or look psychotic, especially during casting animations (grumpy cats!)
    Odd widows peak appearing in at least 6 hairstyles, which do not fit together!
    Still having some bug-eyed issues on some faces, as well as bags. Are these gnomes getting sleep?


Gnome Males:
    Patchy, loose, almost glued on hair
    Suddenly all look like angry psychopaths like their female counterparts
    Weird kind of prancy...duck waddle...motion when running. (anyone ever see a duck skip?)


Troll Females:
    Only 6 faces, and only 1 that doesn't look constipated/angry! (and some still think that one looks mad!)
    Weird waddling running animation
    Feet flopping even worse than before!


Toll Males:
    Loosing their hair in random patches!
    Weird floppy feet while running
    Feet are also breaking out of skirt/robes/dresses during running
    Flex emote causes face to collapse into itself
    Emotions range from stoned - angry - no flucks to give
    Along with weird feet issues, running looks odd and ungainly


Night Elf Females:
    Strange facepaint-looking markings
    Random lipsticks and cosmetics
    Total facial reconstruction (refer to below*)
    Runs like she's skipping or a linebacker!
    Flat hair color
    Having some bad ripping and tearing at the edges of the mouth when the lips extend
    Strange glitch of the NE girls having DK blue glow eyes with the addition of their white flashlight eyes in back (TURN OFF YOUR BRIGHT LIGHTS!!)
    *Chipmunk cheeks, when did the N/e girls gain so much weight?
    *Unwarranted Rhinoplasty surgery.


Night Elf Males:
    Runs like his legs are wet noodles (WET NOODLES ((or Kermit the frog run, you know)))
    Flat hair color
    They still have a color seam on the back of their neck.
    Head still too far forward. It's especially apparent in the /walk motion with exaggerated head bobbing
    Heads/faces too fat. Looks like something was dropped on them, and squished their head down some, and mucked up their neck.
    Eyebrows are suddenly shaved off if no facial hair is chosen (what? O-o Weren't you gonna fix that?)


Human Females:
    Everyone of them has too high of eyebrows making them appear surprised!
    Random emotion changes (original face was happy, new one is angry)
    More random color changes from originals
    All seem to have the same eye and nose shape, no real different ethnicity anymore.
    Why can't we be Black anymore?


Human Males:
    All of them look depressed, sad, or thinking where they put their car-keys
    Plastic, stuck on pineapple beards and facial hair. (there's one great 70's porno-stache though.)
    Also having issues with sideburns not matching up to hair lines
    Seriously though, WHY CAN'T WE BE BLACK!? (this goes for worgens too)


Draenei Females:
    Highbeam lights for eyeballs
    Weird prancing running animation
    Eyes changed from white to blue (You did it on the old models too!?!)
    Darkest shade of skins getting odd, glow-less green/blue eyes
    Odd reshaping of the skull and flattening of hair-dos.
    Duck face. (all I gotta say.)
    One of said hairstyles is broken
    Large anime eyes with a kind of....dead dullness despite the highbeams
    Some noses have gotten WAY too big for the face's proportions
    Hooves went from black to gray suddenly.
    'Drafty leg syndrome' is appearing in the females wearing robes, leaving floating disembodied hooves


Draenei Males:
    They've lost their neck (but they at least got their legs back!)
    Their shoulders have been oddly pinched in, making a kind of constant shrugged motion.
    Seem to have anger management issues with flying...and other things....
    Having clipping issues with some hairstyles and tentacles
    Porno-stache option, but loss of beard in some facial designs, probably should be set up separately


Undead Males:
    Head forced too forward
    Unable to access empty eye-sockets option anymore
    Suddenly turned into spring-heels Jack for running animation
    Polygon deformation when you look at where the leg and hip join up when running


Undead Females:
    Head forced too forward
    Unable to access empty eye-sockets option anymore
    Faces oddly wrinkled, giving a look of old lady-ness.
    Strange 'evil' worked eyebrows.
    Weird recoloring of hair and skin.
    Suddenly turned into spring-heels Jack for running animation
    Polygon deformation when you look at where the leg and hip join up as they run
    Wait....where's my skeleton face gone?!! I can't be Queen Skeletor anymore!?
    Why are the butt cheeks flexing in and out during cannibalize in some odd clapping motion? Your butt claps while you dead dead bodies?? (males at least don't have this problem)*
    *Don't believe me? Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEgQaVDGUe0


Orc Males:
    Seem to be having a bad case of male pattern baldness and receding hairlines
    Odd walking motion in the feet causing strange foot turning
    Options of scraggly beards taken away
    Have lost their freckles on some faces and whatnot, needed to be added as a possible option outside of one or two faces
    Monkey-ish walking and running motions, which is seen through most of the models now
    One face is as depressed as the humans....Which is fine if you want a sad orc, but more options, he seems to be the only one not angry or giving a 100 yard stare.


Orc Females:
    Have a weird motion to their hips, making them look as if they're trying not to poop themselves.


Dwarf Females:
    Looked so great in artcraft, now suddenly have odd wrinkles
    Noses seemed to have been enlarged to balloonish proportions on some faces
    Why do you keep changing the eye colors?!
    Loss of freckles on some faces
    Definitely need to have some makeup on some faces
    Some faces have sunken in eyes, give other options without heavy deepset eyes.
    Weird thinning of faces. Just give other option of full ones too.


((If you see anything else that should be added, don't be afraid to speak up!))
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Now remember, this is a list of suggestions/feedbacks that many people have pointed out as things that need to be fixed or tweaked. This is not a place of total bashing and hatred, we're here to give constructive criticism, and as stated before, are looking for a compromise.

So give your feelings, and try to have fun, even in the mass of all of this.

And, if you like the models, feel free to also comment! Positive feedback helps just as much as negative!

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Also, adding this in from Table's nice thread, and giving us some wonderful info!

10/15/2014 07:42 PMPosted by Table
I've tracked down the lead character artist for Blizzard on twitter. You can tweet him your questions or concerns here:


Twitter: https://twitter.com/Tysmurph/ or @Tysmurph

Email: Breakthelocke@gmail.com (publicly availible on his tumblr)

Tumblr: http://tysonmurphy.tumblr.com/

If anyone has others that can be tweeted/tumblr/emailed, lemme know, I'll add their links up here for ability to contact.
I think they might have listened if we... posted on Blizzard's Twitter. *rolls eyes*
10/15/2014 07:08 PMPosted by Lynnette
I think they might have listened if we... posted on Blizzard's Twitter. *rolls eyes*


If only I could list these things in there, but I would be called 'spamming' for posting the list for each race XD;;

Though I'm not against others sending these 'tweaks' on a particular race to them, you can copy and paste pieces of my thread as it's a built up conglomeration of what I've found being most heard over the board. I'm trying to keep it as fair and concise to the overall voice (granted I can't hear everyone and list everything, but I try to find those that keep being brought up the most.)

Also, I just noticed...in my avatar picture, where did my eyes go? *squints* I knew I was hiding my nose and mouth but not my eyes too!
10/15/2014 07:08 PMPosted by Makki
10/15/2014 07:08 PMPosted by Lynnette
I think they might have listened if we... posted on Blizzard's Twitter. *rolls eyes*


If only I could list these things in there, but I would be called 'spamming' for posting the list for each race XD;;


Oh right... is it 140 characters or something? I don't actually have an account there :P
10/15/2014 07:08 PMPosted by Makki
10/15/2014 07:08 PMPosted by Lynnette
I think they might have listened if we... posted on Blizzard's Twitter. *rolls eyes*


If only I could list these things in there, but I would be called 'spamming' for posting the list for each race XD;;


Post a link to this thread in twitter, maybe?
Gonna leave this quote from my own post, in case people didn't see it.

A bit long here, but I'm pointing a few things which were missing on OP post.

-----

Did somebody meantion the fact new models have ALL the same eye shape?

It's as if old models had multiple ethnicities, but when new models arrive, everyone became Japanese people. Basically, Blizzard artists only changed the shape of everything in their faces BUT their eyes.

(Just to keep it clear, I'm not talking about eyeballs)

10/14/2014 09:54 PMPosted by Makki
Human Females:


One hairstyle was kinda... sabotaged. Here's a SS:

http://i.imgur.com/dnD6BB6.jpg

Do you guys remember the first MIB movie? That scene were the cockroach alien pulls his "man-cloth" head backwards? What befell this hairstyle totally made me remember that.

10/14/2014 09:54 PMPosted by Makki
Orc Females:
Have a weird motion to their hips, making them look as if they're trying not to poop themselves.


Her breathing animation vanished too. Breasts don't move anymore, they're nothing more than pieces of rock on new models.

10/14/2014 09:54 PMPosted by Makki
Undead Females:


One face was completely redone. I mean, "replaced" is a better term.

It used to be a skeletal face, but was replace by a generic one that simply looks anorexic. I mean, the skeletal one barely had any flesh or skin left, there was no nose, but the new one went on a full 180, adding nose, lips and everything that wasn't there.

http://i.imgur.com/HdBwOAd.png

Left one is old model. Right one is the new model, the face that replace the old one.

10/14/2014 09:54 PMPosted by Makki
Night Elf Females:


New casting animation, "waving hands", looks pretty bad. Changed for the sake of change. The older one is much better, as it looks like she's charging the spell in her hands.
While there are some room for improvement in a few areas this is incredibly nitpicky and a lot of it is simply not being used to the new models, specially the run animations. If you give them a chance you will get used to them and may even prefer them. While Blizz did try they can not be EXACTLY the same as the vanilla models.

Only thing I'd say is add more customization over time.
10/15/2014 07:13 PMPosted by Vail
While there are some room for improvement in a few areas this is incredibly nitpicky and a lot of it is simply not being used to the new models, specially the run animations. If you give them a chance you will get used to them and may even prefer them. While Blizz did try they can not be EXACTLY the same as the vanilla models.

Only thing I'd say is add more customization over time.


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL That's a funny joke.

....what?

You were serious?

Just ask any male night elf if he'll "get used to" the new run animation.
Still think the male night elf WALK looks like a swaggering peacock. Mostly due to the thrusting head part. Most of the WALKING animation looks alright, but that head-thrust and the way the cape is flung back and forth as if there were a tail under it just looks awkward. I could understand a slight push forward, but there is one heck of a thrust there.

Everyone's already covered the run.

10/15/2014 07:14 PMPosted by Brilectra
Just ask any male night elf if he'll "get used to" the new run animation.


Yea-- No. It'll always just look weird if it stays as it is.
Yeah probably, I'd say they should wait till the actual WoD then and that would give em another month but honestly... what would they do in a month regarding these models.....its already been months.


I wasn't talking only about the expansion release. Blizzard itself said they would release them over the expansion duration, because it was too much work.

Basically, they said they would give the same Blood Elf treatment to other races. Turns out they would rather rush it.

10/15/2014 07:13 PMPosted by Vail
While Blizz did try they can not be EXACTLY the same as the vanilla models.


It's not a matter of being "EXACTLY" the same. There are a whole bunch of issues that shows us those model animations and shapes aren't as good as they should be.
New models my foot. New characters you mean.

Here is my comparison - my old faithful angry gnome with character. Now the new nerdy science student look.

They look NOTHING at all alike.

http://i.imgur.com/VHMPzSw.png
Still think the night elf WALK looks like a swaggering peacock. Mostly due to the thrusting head part. Most of the WALKING animation looks alright, but that head-thrust and the way the cape is flung back and forth as if there were a tail under it just looks awkward. Everyone's already covered the run.


Seems to be a problem for Nelf males especially, the curvature of most of the Horde spines doesn't make it appear as bad (though some people think the orcs are curved even worse, I don't see much diff myself but I haven't seen a side by side comparison) for us, but you guys are pretty straight spine-ed, so it makes it look...Odd O-o...

*looks at you*.....yup, they took your eyebrows too

10/15/2014 07:18 PMPosted by Schwarzkopf
New models my foot. New characters you mean.

Here is my comparison - my old faithful angry gnome with character. Now the new nerdy science student look.

They look NOTHING at all alike.

http://i.imgur.com/VHMPzSw.png


Wait....you're suppose to be angry? *squints*......You look like you're thinking about something in the avatar....wow, that is some serious mood-swinging.
Makki, could I petition that you put in your post somewhere that the OLD Draenei models were changed too? :(

http://i.imgur.com/CIOyMo9.jpg

Edit for confusion: Her eye color has changed! It's now blue! :C
One thing you might add is that some, not all, but some, female draenei faces have significantly larger noses than they did prior to the update. This character came out looking fine, but my shaman suddenly has a really big nose, which combined with the fact that the eyes and mouth are also bigger...idk it just doesn't look the same to me.

I can get a picture of the character if you'd like confirmation. XD
I have the best rebuttal if anyone says this regarding tauren noses.

Anyone: "If you look at more recent official artworks of Baine and the new loading screen for Kalimdor is that the taurens have these dog like noses now, so their artworks do depict these noses"

Me: "Well since Cataclysm, and in the Kalimdor loading screen, goblin leader Gallywix has been depicted as an ugly, obese frog man with a top hat, does that mean all goblins should have a double chin the size of their head."

Thought this last night when looking at the loading screen, the brown nose is on Baine but that doesn't mean it should be on our models.
I took the time to make this graphic which clearly shows that the new model for female draenei is not even close to keeping the look of the original, and it clearly looks alot worse.

The "Nose" is the biggest change that is not in the look and feel of the original model. Draenei noses are now larger, stick out farther, nostrils are wider. Look at the below comparison. Who is the artist who did this? This is definitely not a small change. And definitely not in the look and feel of the original model. The nose should be thinner and not stick out very far...

Example Comparison Image of the Old and New Female Draenei Model:

http://imgur.com/fAkKmmS

http://i.imgur.com/fAkKmmS.jpg

Also, another major change is the duck face in which the forehead is farther back and the nose and jaw are father forward it looks really bad.

Please re-evaluate these female draenei models and do better and retain the "Look" and "Feel" of the original model as you (Blizzard) said you would. It is not difficult to see that this looks nothing like the original and even in the barbershop you cant fix this with the choices available. And did I mention GREEN-Blue eyes???!!! seriously looks bad. What artist or design director approved this? Please re-evaluate this new model.
One of the orc faces looks like its crying.
Orcs new run looks like they are monkeys in armor.

Wish I could choose between old run animation and new one while having the new model.
10/15/2014 07:19 PMPosted by Strike
Makki, could I petition that you put in your post somewhere that the OLD Draenei models were changed too? :(

http://i.imgur.com/CIOyMo9.jpg


Wait, what is going here?

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