Three Sheets of Paper

Hunter
WoD revisions didn't actually ADD anything to make each spec feel different or exciting/fun, it just kind of cut spells from each one and called it finished (ie; arcane, kill shot,).


I looked at your hunter already because I can see your alts, hoped you changed something (you didn't), then I read your post. I stopped reading right around here because you're very mistaken about this.

Of course Blizzard cut abilities from the hunter. They cut abilities from just about everything - they've been doing it since Cataclysm, if you hadn't noticed. While this makes PVP more difficult for hunters (which is not what this post is about), it also trimmed a lot of fat from the builds. Did we need Hunter's Mark? Arguable, but if the intent is to maintain a DPS bonus, then no: just take the RAP bonus and bake it into everything else the Hunter does. Was the intent to mark stealthed targets? OK, this part hurts a lot, but again, not PVP. Maybe they'll reintroduce it as a glyph or something, but not my problem.

SV doesn't need revision. Once they allowed moving Cobra Shots, the feel of the spec was perfect just the way it was, and Blizzard didn't need to add more icing to the cake: given its mobility and enhanced traps, it'll most likely be the PVP spec of choice in WOD while remaining fairly competitive in PVE. However, it's very dependent on a secondary stat that doesn't exist yet. That's all I want to say about that.

Same goes for BM, the feel of the spec needed a little something, but on the whole, it felt...okay. I could never put my finger on why I didn't like BM as much as I used to back in Wrath, but the differences between SV and BM are enough that I can't play it as well as I want. Does it need MoC and Stampede as baseline? No: the spec already has some decent DPS CDs,and while it would have fit thematically, it's far too much burst for one spec.

MM was the spec that needed the most work, and that's what it got. So when you say something like...

11/04/2014 12:35 AMPosted by Fenrath
But WoD revisions didn't actually ADD anything to make each spec feel different or exciting/fun,


...when MM got itself a strong Mastery unlike anything else in the game - no other spec in the game has anything even remotely like Sniper Training - I tend to think you have no idea what you're talking about when you talk about "Blizzard not adding anything to make each spec feel different, exciting, or fun." It feels so different from SV and BM because Sniper Training is a fairly big addition, and MM is built around judicious use of this mastery.

No, scratch that: Marksman is the Mastery.

If you don't like Sniper Training, you do not play MM, plain and simple, but if you can see the possibilities before you, then you milk that mastery for all its worth because being rewarded for optimizing your movement is FRIGGIN' AWESOME: it means you're understanding an encounter well enough to not panic when fire hits the floor, but moving in such a way that it takes you less than five seconds to get from Point A to Point B, and you do it while maintaining your DPS rotation and never missing a beat.

And here's the part that makes every other caster out there bite their lip in frustration: you get a bonus for standing still, but can still do regular damage while moving around. Sniper Training is optimal, but not required: you can actually build your MM around its usage, which (if you think about it) is pretty damned generous of Blizz.
11/04/2014 03:21 PMPosted by Kabbie
WoD revisions didn't actually ADD anything to make each spec feel different or exciting/fun, it just kind of cut spells from each one and called it finished (ie; arcane, kill shot,).


I looked at your hunter already because I can see your alts, hoped you changed something (you didn't), then I read your post. I stopped reading right around here because you're very mistaken about this.

MM was the spec that needed the most work, and that's what it got. So when you say something like...

11/04/2014 12:35 AMPosted by Fenrath
But WoD revisions didn't actually ADD anything to make each spec feel different or exciting/fun,


...when MM got itself a strong Mastery unlike anything else in the game - no other spec in the game has anything even remotely like Sniper Training - I tend to think you have no idea what you're talking about when you talk about "Blizzard not adding anything to make each spec feel different, exciting, or fun." It feels so different from SV and BM because Sniper Training is a fairly big addition, and MM is built around judicious use of this mastery.

No, scratch that: Marksman is the Mastery.

If you don't like Sniper Training, you do not play MM, plain and simple, but if you can see the possibilities before you, then you milk that mastery for all its worth because being rewarded for optimizing your movement is FRIGGIN' AWESOME: it means you're understanding an encounter well enough to not panic when fire hits the floor, but moving in such a way that it takes you less than five seconds to get from Point A to Point B, and you do it while maintaining your DPS rotation and never missing a beat.

And here's the part that makes every other caster out there bite their lip in frustration: you get a bonus for standing still, but can still do regular damage while moving around. Sniper Training is optimal, but not required: you can actually build your MM around its usage, which (if you think about it) is pretty damned generous of Blizz.


Ok, you should have read the rest of my posts then, because we are really saying the same thing. check out my longer post on spec flavor for BM/SV. I think they are defined, but the talents are too spec specific and need to be baseline (specifically for BM). Overall yes I also agree SV doesn't need anything added at it's core so why do we need to pick talents that do nothing but add buttons and muddy the specs identities. I'll clarify again I think the MM mastery is fine, but the stuff built around it is bland and all boil down to aim and shoot, and it's skills are a snorfest.
note this doesn't mean the playstyle is boring, the skills (except chimera) all being aim and shoot is

I'll reiterate; I am fine with the mastery, and it does add a bit of flavor to MM but your logic is flawed. Yes Hunters can generally do better on the move than other classes, but ALL ranged/caster classes/specs are rewarded for optimizing movement in that they can continue their "rotation". Our mastery making us X% stronger standing still means that this is factored into overall dps balance. Meaning that we have to be weaker when not utilizing this optimally. It simply can't be that hunters do 100% of the damage others can do standing still while moving, and then when we stand still we can do x% more than any other ranged.

And I hesitate to say this but sidenote it isn't unlike any other spec: check out the Mage talent Rune of Power, which does exactly what our mastery does for all 3 mage specs.

Back on track though I am interested in what you think of MM's actual spec skills, and rotational abilities. What about them is fun/exciting/flavorful beyond we take aim and shoot?
What, you mean your original incoherent post that simply insulted hunter design from Cata, MOP, and WOD that insinuated that Blizzard is incapable of making any progress in designing hunter specs? Why would I want to read that again?

The spec flavor of SV is perfect: you have a DOT, a nuke, a proc mechanic, and multiple tools for setting up said procs I have few arguments against its spirit, though I would probably add a few PVP-centric abilities like a fake trap toss - no CD, no GCD, just an animation of the hunter launching or setting a trap - larger trap radii, or making Snake Trap baseline for SV into the mix. Maybe a bear trap or an exploding pet.

The spec flavor for BM is as good as it can get without being OP: not too dependent on the pet, not too dependent on the hunter. It's a balancing act between two buffs: Bestial Wrath, which buffs both, and Frenzy/Focus Fire which can either buff the pet or its owner. Throw in too much stuff like MOC, Dire Beast, Blink Strikes, and Stampede in there and it gets cluttered like it did in MOP and overpowered. It's flashy, but you don't want that: this is a spec about a boy and his dog, not a boy, his dog, a flock of seagulls, and the local petting zoo. By reducing BM to the pet and master with BW and FF, you're looking at the core of the spec: one pet, one master, a little bit of burst. You couldn't get more BM without making it a melee spec, and I'm not even going to go there.

The actual spec specific talents of MM? Boring as hell, just like it was in MOP. I miss Piercing Shots and an instant Aimed Proc, but other than that, the focus of MM is less about its abilities and more about utilizing what buffs it has - Careful Aim, Rapid Fire, Sniper Training - which all demand that the player pay careful attention to her surroundings with a basic set of ranged attacks rather than worry about an overly complicated rotation. If SV excels at reacting, then MM excels in anticipating. It's not a flashy spec, but then again, it's not supposed to be; it's simple, unobtrusive, and strangely elegant, which isn't something I say about anything in WOW. I'm not saying it's perfect, but Sniper Training is probably the first really good idea Blizzard's had about MM in years: it's the only Mastery that rewards raid awareness.

Rune of Power is nothing like Sniper Training since Rune of Power is confined to two anchoring points while Sniper Training has no such limitations. Also, all Rune of Power offers is a damage buff. The biggest buff that Sniper Training offers isn't the damage bonus, but the critical damage bonus (which is worth two Agility meta gems before adding additional Mastery), and range.

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