pvp and pve gear should be the same .

General Discussion
so, all u haters out there...instead of comments like..

11/10/2014 12:03 PMPosted by Felryx
No...
Just no..


or

11/10/2014 12:06 AMPosted by Shuiqi
Uh no?


how about explaining why u think it's good that gear is separate....is it because you'd feel less OP since us raiding players could beat you...if so, then it is true, that it's the gear and not the skill that makes a good pvp'er heh !!
11/10/2014 10:07 PMPosted by Khgfthrfdasa
how about explaining why u think it's good that gear is separate....is it because you'd feel less OP since us raiding players could beat you...if so, then it is true, that it's the gear and not the skill that makes a good pvp'er heh !!


Effort value for reward value.
If the gear is the same, then you'll see a migration towards the easier options.

...PvP gear can be brainlessly farmed from the get go [partially due to the nature of PvP, where it is ideal that all players are on an even footing]. It may not be fast but it works and is easy.
PvE gear at least requires getting a group rolling to get to getting bosses on Farm.

Separation creates a need to do content effectively.

Now there's another problem: "Have to raid to PvP" -- you can't have gear be the same since competitive PvP'rs are absolutely forced into PvE. There's a reason why people whined about A Lion Roars [even though bringing your guild into the BGs would godstomp the PuG on the other side]: not everyone wants to do it all. Not all Glads want to beat bosses. Some just want to beat you. And certainly, not all Raiders want to ruin the other faction. They just want to kill Bosses.
Having gear set for both will, by nature of all math-based games, require a mix to achieve maximum results. This was a problem before [with Legendary Weapons, I.E. Smourne DK and Valnyr Pally wrecking shop in WotLK] and Blizz is working at moving away it [Shoud Proc and Meta not working in the last season, etc.], not intensifying it.
How about in a world enviroment have stats on pve gear convert stats as if it was pvp gear when fighting players, but not within an instanced environment like a bg or arena?

With that someone could put up a better fight against one trying to gank them, but wouldn't be able to just have a random drop from LFR become superior to a current tier pvp piece in a pvp environment.
but why would pvp'ers do pve for gear when thier love is pvp.

i'd never do pvp for pve gear cause i hate pvp, even if it was easier to get.....the idea would to have them balanced so people don't cross over . but even still, i don't remeber pvp'ers raiding in vanilla..

back in vanilla pvp was about pvp and tittles....so what has changed form a pvp'ers point of view,

i don't see how a pvp'er who loves areana would go to all the trouble to get into a raid, when that's doing something they don't want to do.
LOL. Up until 6.0, PVE gear was BETTER in a world pvp setting, Especially at higher gear levels. More health + more stats = win. plain and simple. You just have to be a HORRIBLE player NOT to win that matchup
11/10/2014 12:03 AMPosted by Khgfthrfdasa
so i'm in mythic gear , sitting around, minding my own buisness, when up jumps a rogue and pvp's me.

he, in pvp gear and me in pve gear.

my hits do nothing to him, but his hits kill me in seconds....so how about yes .


Lol, you get beat by a pvper while wearing mythic gear? How on earth is that even possible? Did you stand there and let him wail on you for 20 minutes?
11/10/2014 12:03 AMPosted by Khgfthrfdasa
so i'm in mythic gear , sitting around, minding my own buisness, when up jumps a rogue and pvp's me.

he, in pvp gear and me in pve gear.

my hits do nothing to him, but his hits kill me in seconds....so how about yes .


you got ganked
11/11/2014 12:01 AMPosted by Havïk
Lol, you get beat by a pvper while wearing mythic gear? How on earth is that even possible? Did you stand there and let him wail on you for 20 minutes?


Because he is a healer, Mr. Iamgreatyousuck.

OP:
11/10/2014 10:07 PMPosted by Khgfthrfdasa
how about explaining why u think it's good that gear is separate....is it because you'd feel less OP since us raiding players could beat you...if so, then it is true, that it's the gear and not the skill that makes a good pvp'er heh !!

While I do agree that it would be awesome to have gear that works efficiently on both situations, I understand why that wouldn't be attainable in the current state of the game. Note that PvP gear set bonuses tend to promote defensive gameplay (lowers CC duration, shorter CD's of instant heals or shields, etc) or just plain more CC, while PvE set bonuses simply skyrocket with bonuses that feel really fun and give you huge numbers (whether it be dmg, heals, or absorbs). If people did that much dmg in PvP, fights would be too short (whomever gets the first hit wins)... so healing would be less ideal in PvP. And if PvE encounters required the same amount of CC management and unpredictability, there wouldn't be "rotations", hence completely overhauling the current meta.

Anyways, to all the retards that were like "no, that's stupid, bla bla bla...":
- It currently is possible to do heroic raiding in PvP gear... I've done it, just more challenging.
- When you first get to max level, you are forced to do PvP in PvE gear (unless you have thousands of gold to spare on expendable gear)
- The elimination of resilience and increase on health pools are evidence that blizzard is trying to decrease the ap between both types of gear.
- Lastly, this is a huge game, why limit yourself to only one type of gameplay? Why do you have to draw a line between PvP players and PvE players? we are all f*cking players. Having this gap between gear sets just make it annoying for those that want to enjoy every piece of their character (PvP and PvE alike) and force them into more unnecessary grinding.

I personally hated it, and slowly started getting rid of my "PvE" gear (or not grinding more for it) and only keeping the main parts:
- Legendary cloak
- Main 4 piece Set (with legendary metagem on helm)
- BoA loom

Having two full sets per spec is a hustle and a waste of time (by the time you farmed everything, a new raid tier came out or new PvP season started). SO just minimize the grinding.

What the OP was referring to, however, is the fact that he would like to be on an even planefield when being ganked by PvP players. That's wonderful and all, but as long as PvP players are not equal in raids, then it won't happen.

What many were arguing was that if one way was easier people would only do that way to gear up... that is just not true, the systems just don't allow it. The real problem would be people being forced into doing BOTH things to stay in line until everyone has geared up. PvP has a currency cap, you can only buy about 1 piece every week (not farmable); PvE gear depends on drops and RGN (not farmable either). But by doing both things you would basically get double the gear, one garantied piece every week from PvP and a chance at another one from PvE.
This issue is easily solved: if you reach conquest cap then bosses won't drop new items until reset; and if you get a drop from a boss before capping then your conquest cap is decreased by an amount equal to the value of the acquired piece.

Anyways, stop being selfish bastards, let people play as much of the game as they want. Gear should be the least of the restrictions to play the game, skill is more important.

PS: I get inspected like 5 times minimum every time I join a random raid, I get lots of whispers saying "why are you on PvP gear, you are gonna get us killed" or other healers just trying to get me kicked so they can have my loot... then I top the healing meter and they all have to shush it because I know what I'm doing and I understand fight mechanics.
In BG's, sometimes I forget to change my cloak and people see it and they start complaining "ha... why does the leader allow people in PvE gear to be on the RBG? we are lost already" Well because I'm his freaking flag carrier, Ironman all the way!!! Just let me click on my bags for f*cks sake!

Anyways, I am tyred of each side flaming at each other for no reason because it is still the same game. At this point one gear set for both types of gameplay is not possible, but I welcome the day it finally will be.
11/10/2014 12:00 AMPosted by Airc
So, back to the Burning Crusade model where PvP gear was easier to get, so people go that and raided with it? Nah, doesn't sound good to me.


Yeah terribly raiders did.
11/10/2014 12:12 AMPosted by Khgfthrfdasa
maybe all u haters are haters cause you know that the only way u can kill ppl is to have the pvp/pve gear advantage


Maybe if you would come not as a shadow and that too not having a very suspicious name you would get more respect around here
11/09/2014 11:55 PMPosted by Khgfthrfdasa
hi, with WoD, you can use the same gear for diff spec's , the stats change accordingly.

the same should work for pvp gear.
it should all be the one gear but just change to pvp stats when your doing pvp.


That's actually how it's supposed to work in WoD. Gear has a PvE item level, and a PvP item level. It switches to the PvP item level when you're PvP'ing. At least for PvP gear. PvE gear is whatever item level it is. We'll see whether it works or not once Draenor opens.
Pardon the wall of text. I think a lot of people demonize the similar gear in BC without considering some of the benefits that it offered:

The item level was the same but:
  • PvP gear emphasized survivability (additional stamina and resilience) at the loss of a little dps.
  • PvE gear emphasized dps (additional agility/intelligence/strength) and PvE mitigation at the loss of stamina and resilience.
  • However, equipment maintained a balanced item level and close enough stats that when world PvP happened between PvEers and PvPers it still offered a challenge and skill mostly outranked gear. This stimulated world PvP because everyone was a potential threat and challenge.

    Often times specific class builds in Arena even mixed and matched PvE and PvP set pieces to attempt to better customize a specific playstyle. Beneficially, this caused people to engage in both PvE and PvP, without feeling it mandatory to participate in both since both full sets were perfectly optimal in their respective areas of the game.

    Essentially:
  • PvPers could PvE in PvP gear without significantly hindering the raid, but knowing that full PvE gear was min/max optimal for dps. In world PvP, PvP gear offered a slight advantage.
  • PvEers could PvP in PvE gear without watching their iLevel plummet and their lack of PvP Power significantly reduce their potential dps against players.
  • One of the bigger problems is the baselining of Resilience to compensate for the outrageous dps numbers in Mists of Pandaria. By granting players in 580+ gear the same Resilience as someone in 550 Prideful but letting them maintain the extra 300-500k health and Legendary Cloak procs and additional dps stats which more than compensated for the lack of PvP Power, wearing PvP equipment out in the world became a horrifying experience. High-end PvE equipment offered players a godlike advantage everywhere sans Arenas and Battlegrounds.

    A Personal Account:
    We tried to raid Stormwind at one point during MoP. The people in my raid were averagely geared for PvE whilst I wore full Prideful. Know who everyone focus fired? Me. Know why? My healthpool was smaller than everyone else's and I took the same amount of damage. I still find it strange that my full high end PvP set became an incredible detriment in a PvP situation. That didn't happen back in BC and I genuinely miss that.

    TLDR:
    BC did not do everything right. However, I would like it if less of a disparity existed between PvP and PvE equipment. The removal of baseline Resilience could also help re-establish a PvP stat to balance its iLevel. The reduction of gear disparity would also re-stimulate world PvP and make the game more skill-centric once again. Also, the provided gear, whichever side it may come from, could promote a gateway into the other aspects of game. A full PvP set allows people to ease into PvE without being a severe detriment, while a full PvE set allows for people to ease into PvP without being a severe detriment. Even though people tend to only like one aspect of the game, no one should feel pigeonholed.

    Min/maxing for either side would not be negatively impacted by reducing the PvE/PvP equipment disparity. Min/maxing for PvE would still require an emphasis on PvEing whilst min/maxing for PvP would still require emphasis on PvPing.

    A Common Rebuttal:
    "PvP gear should only work in BGs and Arenas because that is all that really matters."

    With the removal of flying mounts in WoD there is a clear intention of forcing people into close quarters confrontation once more (re: revitalization of the dead art of world PvP). Would it not be more enjoyable to be able to stand a chance at fighting back?
    11/10/2014 10:07 PMPosted by Khgfthrfdasa
    so, all u haters out there...instead of comments like..

    11/10/2014 12:03 PMPosted by Felryx
    No...
    Just no..


    or

    11/10/2014 12:06 AMPosted by Shuiqi
    Uh no?


    how about explaining why u think it's good that gear is separate....is it because you'd feel less OP since us raiding players could beat you...if so, then it is true, that it's the gear and not the skill that makes a good pvp'er heh !!


    Also, to answer your inquiry from a more direct economic viewpoint:
    Blizzard makes most of its money by creating metaphoric treadmills for players to run on (dailies, min/maxing gear for PvP, min/maxing gear for PvE, etc.). By making it so that one set of gear works completely for all aspects of the game Blizzard would be removing a series of its treadmills and significantly reduce the amount of time players would need to invest in the game in order to min/max their personal performances.

    As my previous argument demonstrated, while the two sets of gear (PvE and PvP) should be similar in iLevel and function proficiently in both environments, each should promote an advantage in its respective field because it makes players spend time in two separate aspects of the game in order to min/max for said respective field (PvP or PvE). This is a very good thing for Blizzard because it buys them subscription month time which they reinvest into the game. Sadly, they seem to have lost their way a little bit on all of this, but many players are content enough that it has not fatally impacted their subscription based business model.

    Also, from a more psychological perspective:
    On a sidenote, George Zipf (1949) postulated that humans operate using the most efficient path in order to reduce the amount of work required for an end product. Re: people are intelligent and lazy.

    Thus, much like many have suggested here, if gear were 100% equal people would utilize whichever path was easiest / most efficient to acquire their equipment. Like some have suggested, individuals would likely just run BGs instead of dungeons / raids because it would take less time and players could select pieces that they want rather than rely on the RNG of boss drops.

    TLDR:
    Reducing disparity between PvE and PvP gear is a great idea.
    Removing disparity between PvE and PvP gear would hurt business.
    People strive for efficiency, which is bad for business.
    11/11/2014 01:18 AMPosted by Easypie
    Yeah terribly raiders did.
    not always sometimes your piece of gear wouldn't drop
    I do recall druid raiding tanks chasing pvp gear in tbc due to the high stam and resilliance > tier raiding sets.

    TBC was a fail only due to the fact the damage reduction was overall not just from another player. I honostly think that system in place with pvp gear reducing damage from or increasing damage to another player would work significantly better than base resil so when you 'pve gear' you hit monsters harder and 'pvp gear' you hit players harder.
    I just hope that you dont HAVE to do PVE stuff to get the best gear for PVP.. This is ridiculous.
    You can have an example in the near past like.. legendary staff.

    I HATE TO PVE, its the most boring and stupid thing to do. Dont force PVPs to PVE, just to PVP better. :)

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