Nerf Confirmed

Wow, at last, I actually agree with GC. Very good work. Holy pallys were blitzing it and it was retarded, and just YET ANOTHER angle of attack that the mass of pally haters were using.

Having to hear about paladins being op in anyway while ret absolutely sux was more than a tad disheartening.

Now - Fix retribution next :)
You got to be f'n kidding me!!! WTF how the hell i'm i supose to keep a 5man up in herpoic?????????? WTF you got some one with an IQ of 10 working in this stuff do the people making changes plaly this game? What the hell i run out of manna on trash in heroics and we die!!! The dawn of light was the only thing keeping up the raid!!! This is a joke I've got to find another game to play....
I currently have 70k mana. If I desperately need that Word of Glory or Light of Dawn, and I have no holy power, the fastest way to get it is to cast holy shock, and then two flashes of light. That's around 12,000 mana down the drain, just so I can get an AoE heal or a big heal out. I could also just use Divine Radiance to AoE heal, or use Divine Light, and be more efficient mana wise and probably do a better job of healing.

That's really not so bad. As a holy priest I spend 12k mana on 2 flashes of light by themselves and for my investment I get a 10% reduction in the mana cost for my next big heal or AOE heal. 12k for 2 flashes, an instant, and a FREE big heal or AOE heal? Man I wish!

You misunderstood my point. I'm not saying it's too weak, or unfair, I'm saying it's pointless.

I went in and gauged my numbers to make it more accurate. My three main heals are Holy Light, at around 8.5k, Flash of Light at 15.8k, and Divine Light at 23k. They cost 2.1k, 6.3k, and 7k respectively to use. We also have Holy Shock, healing around 6.5k for 1.9k mana. Word of Glory heals for 12k, and Light of Dawn heals for 4.5k per target.

Say the tank is dying, and I could previously decide to holy shock, then hit him twice with holy light, granting me three holy power in order to use Word of Glory. That comes out to 35.5k (6.5k+8.5k+8.5k+12k) healing. It costs me 6.1k mana. That's efficient. It costs around 900 mana less than divine light, and heals for around 10k more. The downside is the time. That's 1.5 seconds for the GCD on Holy Shock, then 4.5 seconds total for two holy lights, and then the GCD after the Word of Glory. 7.5 seconds for 35.5k healing comes out to 4.7k healing per second. On the other hand I could choose to just use Divine Light. It has the same cast time as a single holy light, but heals for 23k. That's over 10k healing per second. In a time sensative situation, I can throw mana at the problem and heal it very fast. Alternatively I can opt (or could opt) to spend 900 less mana over about three times as long, giving me more time to regenerate, and making use of those "free" heals. This was all before.

Now instead of being able to choose between speed and power, I really don't have any options. The most mana efficient way to get those three holy power quickly is to cast flash of light twice and shock once. 14,500 mana for 16k+16k+6.5k+12k healing. 50,500 healing for 14,500 mana, over the course of 4.5 seconds, for a total of 11,200 mana per second. It's only around 1k healing more per second than just casting Divine Light, but takes many more key presses and uses more mana.

If I wanted to be super mana efficient I could slowly holy light, letting it build up holy power and using Word of Glory in place of a Holy light. The problem there is it's not really required. In most cases I actually end up saving that holy power in order to quickly throw that word of glory or light of dawn out when damage suddenly ramps up.

The "medium" setting was a mix of things. I'd be using holy shock on cooldown, while using holy lights as well to keep everyone up. I'd be using my holy power heals more quickly in order to balance my mana use and my healing power out.

The least mana efficient option usually involves flash of light or divine light being used with shocks as well. I'm burning my mana quickly but I am dealing tons of healing out. This option is obviously only for emergencies.

See, we previously had somewhat of an IDF (fast, cheap, good) model. We could heal cheap and fast, but it would be low healing. We could heal fast and good, but it wouldn't be cheap. We could heal good and cheap, but it wouldn't be fast. All by modulating what we cast, when we cast it, and how we used our holy power. Now however, there is no fast and cheap option. The only option that's left over unless you're ok with wiping due to sheer luck, is fast and good. We can either choose to shoot for those "free" heals, which require us to blow tons of mana to get them at a rate which is acceptable, or to ignore them completely and only use them when we happen to have the holy power, and use our small heals to be mana efficient.

It all boils down to Blizzard's multiple different directions making it appear as if we're intended to both use our bigger heals, and not use them. We're supposed to be efficient enough to maintain our mana levels, and yet we're also supposed to (or required to) use the heals that completely go against that philosophy, in order to heal enough damage over a period of time to succeed.

The major problem is while some people were abusing this intentionally, most of us weren't. We weren't relying entirely on light of dawn and holy light, but we did depend on those holy power charges coming when we needed them, and now they don't.
All four healing classes at 80, picked the paladin because it was mildly fun and the others were balls annoying.. and now it's even more balls annoying then my priest... Aight, cool. Healers aren't fun, time to play a DK.
Gimme back Holy Light Glyph with at 15 yards and I'll call it even.

Anyways, I always thought that Tower of Radiance should be changed to be 100% on crit to generate a holy power. Since they took out illumination, this mechanic would be a little reminescent of it.
12/14/2010 3:00 PMPosted by Edyrem
Now that Paladins feel Disc Priest's pain, what class are you going to reroll?

None, I still don't have mana issues. Guess we need another hit with the nerfbat.
so what do we stack now! I was stacking hast to get my holy light cast time down flahe of light takes about 9% of my mana i'm @ 70k now i'm going to fool with crit but i don't think it will help that much i can use a mana pot 10k big deal that is like one flash and 1 holy light we use to drink mana pots but they took that away they nerfed divine plea so that is a wopping 15% of the mana which = jack shot so how do i keep a five man up by myself holy light is mana efficent but it is too slow and does heal enough flash of ligh heals fast but burns the mana up in 90 sec. Like I say a ten year old thought about these changes for like 30 seconds this is a game it is supose to be fun there is no fun in dying and running back. If we can't raid heal no one is going to want a pally in heroics........
Clearly none of the development team plays a paladin. This was the fist week since they changed the way we heal completely that I felt that I was on even ground with other healers.

Not better, not worse but even. That they're doing this after a week when the majority of people are just leveling is the most ridiculous thing ever. Get a clue and actually wait and see how things are before drastically changing paladins again!
Simply ridiculous, healing is already stressful, tedious and annoying at the moment and you go and get rid of the one way we had half a chance of healing decently.

I'm all for changes and adjustments but the way you've chosen to "fix" healing this time is down right simply stupid. There are so many different options you could of used to "even" out the healing but you didn't and I am completely disappointed. And to do it in a stealth nerf is completely disrespectful to the players and just proves you knew you were going to cause a #%##storm.

I really think they need some perspective. If you haven't noticed healers are pretty much jumping ship and re-rolling dps or tanks and or completely different classes. If this doesn't say something about how things are going for healers I don't know what will get your attention. There is a difference between challenging and too hard to be not fun at all.
WTB responses from people running entry level heroics post-hotfix kthx.
amen kustodia! stressful, tedious and annoying that about sums it up! And now they just made it worse. I don't know about you but at the end of the heroic boss fight i'm out of mana and pulled every trick out of the bag to keep the raid alive. I just can't believe the made a change so soon it's just beyond me....
I duno what you all are complaining about.

Im sure anyone who has been playing this game for a while was waiting for the new mechanics to be tweaked, as the mechanics are totally new. All i have heard from my guildmates is, damn how can you still have mana. Ive enjoyed it while it lasted, as it was a challenging start. Now, it seems blizzard has started making mechanics and encounters that favour skill rather than blindly casting, and thats what i like.

I think the new paladin holy mechanics are awesome, the flow is much cooler than the old holy light spam. Having to choose spells based on encounters and mana efficiency creates way more interesting gameplay.

For all you who think this is a nerf, i view this as a balance. No class should out perform any other, we should all struggle, or we should all float through.

I think we'll see a bit more of this over the next few weeks too, as the cataclysm holy paladin mechanics settle. I'll be anticipating any other changes.

And for anyone who thinks this makes ToR redundant, learn the freakn game. This doesnt make ToR makes holy light redundant, as i wont really ever be casting it anymore. In my opinion, the only mistake Blizzard made was to cut out an entire spell.

A simple solution, would have been to remove the 60% speed to Holy Light after a shock crit but still keep the ToR proc. That way it would take time to stack up the holy power.

Thats my five cents, take it or leave it, the holy paladins are simply being balanced in comparison to the other healing classes, so everyone should just chill for a few weeks, and see where it goes. Stack spirit and you'll be fine.

Thanks Blizzard, so far Cataclysm is freakn awesome! Instakill and low mana efficiency will hopefully make all those douchebag players step up and gain some skill.

I have my fingers crossed for that...

One day the QQers might put all that QQ time into actually learning how to play.
All these people complaining about healing... I have to wonder how many of them are operating under a WotLK mentality and not an early TBC / Vanilla-era mentality. How many are talking about their experiences as healers when they were doing trash mobs? Bosses? Both? How many healers encouraged the use of CC in the group? Focus firing? Interrupting enemy spell casters?

All these people saying "OMFG HOLY SUCKS /wrists" is just pointless, and the same goes for the people saying "Holy is fine, learn 2 play". We don't know what circumstances each side of this discussion is experiencing. If the "Holy Sucks" crowd is often in groups that fail to focus fire, don't CC, stand in the fire, etc... then yes, healing sucks. If the "Holy is fine" crowd CC's flawlessly and focus fires high priority targets down first, then yes, healing is fine.

So before the next person jumps in to say "OMFG HOLY SUCKS F U BLIZZARD!", stop foaming at the mouth for two seconds and think about your experiences. Ranting and letting your emotions get the better of you doesn't aid discussion here, and it's just going to be a bunch of back and forth sniping if no one actually tries to provide any insight into why they feel holy sucks or why they have trouble keeping groups up.
12/14/2010 8:21 PMPosted by Lummia
WTB responses from people running entry level heroics post-hotfix kthx.

It completely blows. How many times is blizzard going to change how we heal. With every damn "hotfix" they completely change our style of healing and it's getting annoying. Pick a *$&#ing way you want us to heal and leave it there so we can get used to it.

Oh yeah, if you thought people were abusing LoD then why the hell didn't you nerf LoD? @#%ing common sense, that's why. Blizzard has none.

I'm not complaining because healing is hard. I'd just like to know what direction you want to take the spec and get used to a style of healing for more than 2 weeks before it's nerfed again.
Just got finished running a heroic Lost City of the Tol'Vir post nerf. Didn't really notice the nerf to be quite honest, as I could never get people to risk their lives stacking in a nice neat pile for my light of dawn spam anyway. Healing is still just as stressful and intense as ever, the only difference being that we don't have an out anymore. Relax though, because if you're feeling nerfed, you can take solace in one simple fact: if people are taking too much damage, it's THEIR fault!

Seriously, Blizzard designed the new instancing mechanics to have mostly avoidable damage through proper CC and general awareness (don't stand in the fire, don't stand in the fire, and don't stand in the fire). When my group was dying a lot, it was because of idiots sucking, not because of my lack of healing ability. When people upped their game, things went smoothly, and I was still provided with a good, but doable, challenge.

Welcome to Cataclysm, where you can't carry baddies anymore. dealwithit.jpg

Edit for bad grammarz.
If theres any good news out of this it is that, anyone not playing a pally will have the pleasure of being accompanied by a pally tank for 95% of their pugs till the end of this expansion.
this is nerf if completely absurd i'd go full out on cursing if it wouldn't get blocked out by the language filter

just to try convey my point

basically to gain holy power we have to use a 6.3k mana and 7k mana spell or wait 6 secs for a shock or a daybreak proc for more shocks

seriously this is fking stupid

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