Nerf Confirmed

Paladin
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Make Enlightened Judgments add a 50/100 chance to add a HoPo when using Judgment, or maybe add this proc to ToR, to make it more usefull now.

Then at least we can still generate a fast 2 HoPo with Judge+Shock in emergencies without spending a ton of mana
Ok, im pissed, but maybe that was the right thing to do ( i was aways oom or low mana on instances, but whatever)....

....so, why blizzard just didnt changed ToR completely, because right now its an useless 3 points tier6 talent.
I have to say, I love how so many come in and go "oh QQ" when seeing someone complain about a change to a mechanic.



For me, this simply makes holy power useless. I have no need for ToR or LoD - with LoD being pretty irritating to use to begin with (that cone REALLY sucks), and HL not giving HP, I see no utility in the HP mechanic - WoG becomes useless as well. If its a pain to generate HP, and I need to go out of my way to get it, then I don't need it.



So, ToR frees up 3 points, and another from LoD. I now have 4 points to move around, and Blizzard has effectively removed their HP mechanic.



(Now I wait while someone who is complaining in another thread rushes in, quotes me, and says "QQ MOAR" without reading). Theres a woman behind me on the train crying in another language, so I can no longer finish this thought, but its good enough....
I believe a nerf was necessary (and I felt it was iminent) from day 1, but I think the better fix would, as others have mentioned, have been to take away the LoD heals transferring to the beacon. I was an LoD spammer, and the rationale behind it for me was the heals transferring to the beacon. I didn't need to choose between casting a single target heal for my tank or an aoe heal for my party/raid. I could do both with one button. Removing the beacon trasnfer woul dhave brought us back to Blizzard's whole new thought process of "Healers need to choose which heal they want to use and choose it wisely."

EDIT: adding a mana cost back into LoD would have solved any mana issues we had I guess, although to be honest, I was near OOM on most heroic bosses by the end of the fight.
Posted by Holyçow
I really don't think its a big deal now. Just play the class the way bliz created it. They finally made wow fun again where people actually need to know how to play there class I for one look forward to the challenge.

Oh and now we are like all the other healing classes that are having trouble healing anything.


You people really don't help our argument.
All I see is a whole bunch of fail QQ. If you read the blue post you will see the logic behind the nerf. If you Don't like the talent anymore spend the points somewhere else, who cares what tier it sits in the low tier talents are just as game breaking if not more so in some cases.

To the one complaining that healing is Tedious... Are you serious? This entire game is tedium by definition. Rep Grinds, heroic grinds, raid grind, pvp grind. That is RPG and furthermore MMO bread and butter. In these games Tedium and Difficulty are synonymous. I personally believe blizz does a great job of making brain stimulating tedious tasks for the most part.
Really? He gets free big heals and cheaper flash heals? What talents give those, I must have missed them....
12/15/2010 6:57 AMPosted by Lithe
All I see is a whole bunch of fail QQ. If you read the blue post you will see the logic behind the nerf. If you Don't like the talent anymore spend the points somewhere else, who cares what tier it sits in the low tier talents are just as game breaking if not more so in some cases.


Apparently you need to learn a little more about "reading".

My post is not QQ, its commentary - ToR is now a useless tier 6 talent, and playing last night, I feel comfortable saying I will be ignoring holy power entirely.

I do not believe that there is logic in that, if Blizzard intended Holy Power to be a new useful mechanic. If you can't understand that, well, that can't be helped I guess :D
Posted by Toraxa
I went in and gauged my numbers to make it more accurate. My three main heals are Holy Light, at around 8.5k, Flash of Light at 15.8k, and Divine Light at 23k. They cost 2.1k, 6.3k, and 7k respectively to use. We also have Holy Shock, healing around 6.5k for 1.9k mana. Word of Glory heals for 12k, and Light of Dawn heals for 4.5k per target.

Say the tank is dying, and I could previously decide to holy shock, then hit him twice with holy light, granting me three holy power in order to use Word of Glory. That comes out to 35.5k (6.5k+8.5k+8.5k+12k) healing. It costs me 6.1k mana. That's efficient. It costs around 900 mana less than divine light, and heals for around 10k more. The downside is the time. That's 1.5 seconds for the GCD on Holy Shock, then 4.5 seconds total for two holy lights, and then the GCD after the Word of Glory. 7.5 seconds for 35.5k healing comes out to 4.7k healing per second. On the other hand I could choose to just use Divine Light. It has the same cast time as a single holy light, but heals for 23k. That's over 10k healing per second. In a time sensative situation, I can throw mana at the problem and heal it very fast. Alternatively I can opt (or could opt) to spend 900 less mana over about three times as long, giving me more time to regenerate, and making use of those "free" heals. This was all before.

Now instead of being able to choose between speed and power, I really don't have any options. The most mana efficient way to get those three holy power quickly is to cast flash of light twice and shock once. 14,500 mana for 16k+16k+6.5k+12k healing. 50,500 healing for 14,500 mana, over the course of 4.5 seconds, for a total of 11,200 mana per second. It's only around 1k healing more per second than just casting Divine Light, but takes many more key presses and uses more mana.


I hear what you're saying. I played a paladin all through Wrath, including in 4.0. Now I play a priest.

What I'm saying is that, even with your nerf, pallies are still in way better shape than priests. Our mana costs for equaivalent spells is about the same, but the healing for mine is much less. In my Chakra, I have:
Heal - 7k / 2k mana
Flash heal - 12k / 6k mana
Greater heal - 16k / 7k mana
Holy Word: Sereniity - 10k/2k mana (on a 10 second cd)

You can see that the main problem is just a very low healing per mana spent. Even my most efficient heal only gets about 3.5 health/mana, and I'd kill for a free 12k heal. This is why I'm saying that, as far as healers go, even with the nerd you guys are still looking pretty good.

Anyway, my een bigger point was that healing in the game is just miserable right now. It's ridiculously stressful and more and more I just don't feel like doing it.

And I can tell that I'm not alone. I've notice that my queue time for instances as a healer over the last few days has gone from several minutes to instant, while my queue times as dps are the same or worse.

I wonder how long it will take for Blizzard to notice that trend and consider that it might be significant.
You know, I dont normally post on forums but, everyone keeps talking about how healers should be sitting at their keyboard with a brain. But answer me this... since when has any other class in this game had to sit at their keyboard with a brain, dps in particular.

I dont know where blizzard gets off implying that healers should have to try to play the came at a much higher level than anyone else. Meanwhile you have mages and warriors running around doing absurd damage, and the hardest thing any dps has to do is look at their feet to make sure they arent sitting in anything.
What bothers me is that Blizzard seems to have based this HL "fix" on early raiding paladins. Honestly any players doing enough raiding this early in the expansion to give reliable numbers are in guilds with players that are very hardcore and are extremely good at avoiding damage/staying out of fire/using CDs etc. So basically the class has been tuned around the upper percentage of player population. This totally does little for the guy who is in a casual guild that enjoys running randoms using the LFG tool. The fact is the majority of players right now have no clue about how to run an instance properly, and that means more mana cost for the healers.

While raiding is a fun end goal for some, and was for me for years, it inevitably changes the game..it can become less of a game and more of a job and you tend to run into a few more A-hats. Certainly fun for some, but should NOT be required by all. Tuning classes around early raid numbers (which even those sound hard to believe) just doesn't seem like the best way to go.
This totally does little for the guy who is in a casual guild that enjoys running randoms using the LFG tool. The fact is the majority of players right now have no clue about how to run an instance properly, and that means more mana cost for the healers.







Well, when your class has around 0 mana issues due to all the free healing you did with Holy Light Spam and holy power generation, it's not fair vs other classes. I think even a casual player like you can admit it was rather ridiculous. The game isn't balanced through raiding in general, it's balanced based on other healing classes mana regeneration and healing output. And it just so happened Paladins had ridiculous mana regeneration and healing output. And if you don't think that was the case, you really must be blind.



People need to realize these changes weren't just based around early raiding, but a necessary nerf to your healing class in general. This game shouldn't be a job (Which I don't think it is), but it shouldn't be stupid faceroll either where you can literally have no mana issues or constantly generate numerous free heals like that.
Healing has been incredibly stressful in Cata. I saw the nerf yesterday in the first run, went and posted it as a bug report because the hotfix notes weren't out yet....That run, well, stunk! Anywho...I reforged my gear, swapped some gems around and healing a heroic run such as Lost City or Deadmines is definately doable, it's just a lot more tedious. You basically have to be completely focused the entire run, and really never stop casting. By the end of the runs my fingers wanted to fall off!



The problem that I have with it is that even with CC'ing trash, and taking it nice and slow, with this nerf we don't really have a way of bringing the tank up quickly without a LOH. I'm running with a DK tank who's sitting on 150K health. My divine light hits normally for 25K, crits around 36K or so. If I look away for a second or stop for a second on the Holy Light cast, it's just a click-a-thon nightmare to get the tank back up to a comfortable health level. It's almost 10% of my mana for a Divine Light, so I gotta drop 3 or 4 of those. Since the LoD was nerfed, and Holy Radiance is damn near useless, at that time I generally have to start slamming Holy Light on some other players who took some splash damage, then back to the tank... And its non stop almost "panic mode". And that's on trash that was properly CC'd! Sure, gear is going to fix it, but it's going to be a while!
I would love to see some of your numbers posted showing zero mana issues.
You can ask any of my raid members. (Shahz, Satinzfiveo, Betsujin, Coexistence) None of them went even close to oom during 8 of the 11 encounters we've faced.
Blizzard can't nerf me in real life... I'm thinking about leaving the game cause of nerfs to pursue other interests.
12/15/2010 8:23 AMPosted by Bobbydigital
Blizzard can't nerf me in real life... I'm thinking about leaving the game cause of nerfs to pursue other interests.
Because you can't adapt from not being faceroll anymore? Odd.
I always feel the need to bang my head on the desk whenever I read some people reactions and over blowns walls of text filled with useless emotions in these kinds of threads.





We have, and will always adapt to whatever they throw at us nerf wise. We have to stop getting our panties in a bunch like little spoiled brats. Doing my first Dungeons this week and I noticed I would never go below 80% mana and yes, it was not fair. If you where going oom before this nerf, you where not healing well.





Last night I did another dungeon and it was fine, took me a few minutes to adjust again and then it was all good. Now I can't wait for nice challenging Heroics tonight!
You didn't even quote me right, and you didn't even get what I was saying. And I wasn't commenting on anything you said. Blizzard nerfed paladins, that's a fact. They can't nerf me in other aspect of my life, that's a fact. I didn't say anything about "adapting from being facefoll"

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