Upcoming Dungeon Changes and Hotfixes

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Another vote for personal loot.
So, for 10 years we each had a stuffed puppy (Need before Greed). It was the only puppy we knew, so we loved it and carried it around with us. Occasionally, we got into fights with the other kids over our stuffed puppy. Then Blizzard came along and gave us a real puppy (Personal Loot) and for a few weeks most of us love it, but then some people noticed that we have to feed and take care of it (don't always get what we want) and complained, so Blizzard took away everyone's real puppy we've had 5 weeks to love and gave us back the dusty old stuffed puppy we dragged around for 10 years and took our real puppy out back and shot it since they say we might get a robot puppy we don't have to feed and take care of some time in the future.


Is anyone else reading this in Christopher Walkin's voice? I love it.

You know what I don't love? These loot system changes. I don't even want to play anymore, and I had just come back for WoD.

EDIT: HI REDDIT! :D
Please bring back personal loot.
Need before Greed is even worse now that gear is interchangeable between specs. Before I rolled against Agility Leather users. Now I have to roll against Intellect Leather users as well.
You're SO right!
Need before greed stinks. Bring back personal loot.
Please bring back personal loot.
Personal Loot is infinitely better than Need before Greed.

Sure, it's frustrating when you run a dungeon and get no loot, but....NbG does not fix that. I still run dungeons and get no loot, because no Cloth drops.

And then when cloth DOES drop, I have 1, sometimes 2 other people rolling against me for it.

Furthermore, with items being up for roll instead of personally looted, DPS casters (Mage, Warlock, Elemental Shaman, Balance Druid) are going to start rolling Need on gear that has Spirit on it. This has been a consistent issue throughout MoP, and during my time on the WoD Beta, it was a problem as well. DPS cannot seem to realize that Spirit is a useless stat to them. They just see Intellect, and hit the "Need" button.

So not only am I going to be rolling against others for my loot, but my Healer gear is going to be taken by DPS.

I've been really, really enjoying WoD so far, but this is just a major blunder. Please set it back to Personal Loot. Until then, I'll be manually forming full groups on my server...
Blizz,

you guys have made a great game and many of the expansion additions have made it great for new and returning players but the need for greed system is severely flawed. after dealing with the drama of people needing on items they dont need or cloth dropping the entire dungeon for dps and tanks wearing plate i have to say i may hang up the subscription for awhile. even though launch day didnt go over so hot the content and system for personal looting in dungeons at least felt like you had a chance of getting gear. i would rather take the small chance of not getting gear spec'ed for me then deal with a chance of not getting anything in the ballpark of my spec at all. i think it was a knee jerk reaction to go back to need or greed and you guys might start losing subs again. there was nothing wrong with personal loot. the que takes forever for most dps players. that combined with the chance of not getting loot just makes it not worthwhile. the chances of gearing in time for molten core before its over are dramatically lowered and many people who have enjoyed 10 years of gaming wont be able to see or reap the benefits of that. along with that note gearing for future raids is going to be painful. this is all based on my own opinion but hopefully you guys get the message over 2500+ people are saying in this forum.
Personal Loot was the best, i hate all the ninja's and it feels just as rewarding.
Thanks for all the feedback on these changes. As a team, we do prefer personal loot as a solution for Dungeon Finder groups, which is why we modified and extended the system we’ve had in place for Raid Finder. We heard from sources both within our team and the community that the experience of defeating a boss and no ceremony beyond three gold on its corpse, or the possibility of finishing an entire dungeon without seeing any items, felt flat and even a bit broken. Based on those concerns, we decided to roll back a system that had been in place for a week to a system that had been in use for years, while we continued to polish and refine the personal loot system to deliver an optimal experience to players. However, we underestimated the impact and positive elements of personal loot, in terms of reducing contention and drama in random match made groups.

We now have a hotfix in the works that will do two things:

  • The default loot system for Dungeon Finder groups will once again be Personal, instead of Need Before Greed. Full premade groups that prefer the latter system will be able to select it manually, as always.
  • We're increasing loot yield from the final boss of each dungeon.
    • With Personal loot active, each player in a group will now always receive an item from the final boss.
    • With Need Before Greed active, the boss will now drop 3 items to be shared among the group as desired, up from 2 previously.
  • Maybe this is a long troll to get the community unified?

    I do not think I have ever seen a community outcry on these forums quite like this. There aren't even trolls posting in negation or making fun of anyone. People are just...

    Mad.
    Personal Loot! Personal Loot!

    At least make it the default, maybe allow for a NBG vs PL vote at the beginning of an instance.
    NBG is just one more way for people to create drama in PUGs.
    So with Personal Loot, I had gotten significantly geared rather quickly.

    I loved this loot system because it allowed everybody an equal chance to get gear. With the Loot Tables on Bosses in WoD sharing a lot of the same loot with a loot table of over 30 pieces per boss, it makes getting your gear so much easier. Sometimes you'll get an unlucky streak (Like I did), and go on a 4 or more heroic dungeon run and get nothing; It happens, it's bad RNG. But your gear will drop.

    Now With Need before Greed back in the WoD heroics, those loot tables on the bosses is going to make it even more difficult to get gear, our actual chances of getting our Pre-Raid BiS gear is less than 5% if you are looking at wanting Heroic Warforged + Socket/Avoidance.

    The Need Before Greed loot system allows ninja-looting back into the game causing Loot Drama in LFG and nobody wants to deal with that. I for one have not touched a heroic LFG since you guys changed it back. I do not want a BiS tank trinket to drop and then have another DPS need it off of me and win it. I'll just rage-quit the dungeon and stop running them with random people.

    Yeah we get it, it can be a little disheartening when you kill boss after boss and see no gear drop at all. So why not have each boss drop Garrison Resources (Idk like 5 Resources per boss) something but still rewarding that will it still gives people the feeling of accomplishment when they kill a boss. Or just buff the drop rate for gear by a couple %.

    Changing the loot system was not the 'Fix' we needed as a community.

    The idea of Personal Loot is a wonderful idea, it works great, you guys at Blizzard did an amazing job implementing this and having the bosses' loot tables work with this system! But for time being, because I want Personal Loot back in LFG, LFG is going to be one tank shorter until this is changed back.

    Edit: Typos, grammar pls.
    This is my first post on the forums, but I wanted to add my voice to say that reverting back to Need before Greed was a poor choice. Personal loot in random groups makes sense. No "ninja" drama, people could gear up for off-specs more easily, etc.

    Perhaps it would have been a wise choice to simply ask what people thought about it before going back so quickly. Chances are the people that were enjoying the new loot system, like myself, were simply enjoying it quietly.

    ..and I now see the Blue post above. Fantastic!
    11/21/2014 11:11 AMPosted by Thorôs
    11/21/2014 11:10 AMPosted by Fii
    and took our real puppy out back and shot it


    This made me laugh more than it should, and it's a really accurate description of what is going on


    QFT - For the first time in 10 years I have found myself actually believing the tinfoil hat crowd that says it was taken away either because we were gearing too fast or because there were accounts that were bugged and they could not fix it quickly.

    Was personal loot perfect? No, but it was nothing that dropping a few garrison resources out to folks who completed the last boss or something would not fix.

    Plus it makes ZERO sense to allow personal loot in pre-mades (which is where NBG does work) but not in a pug (where NBG just results in ninjorz).

    Edited to add: Just saw the blue post! POWER TO THE PEOPLE!
    We now have a hotfix in the works that will do two things:

    The default loot system for Dungeon Finder groups will once again be Personal, instead of Need Before Greed. Full premade groups that prefer the latter system will be able to select it manually, as always.
    We're increasing loot yield from the final boss of each dungeon.
    With Personal loot active, each player in a group will now always receive an item from the final boss.
    With Need Before Greed active, the boss will now drop 3 items to be shared among the group as desired, up from 2 previously.


    Is it too much to ask for a simple vote amongst 5 people ? at the start of the dungeon for personal vs group.

    Group loot = more loot overall.
    This change was the reason I posted on these forums for the first time ever...THANK YOU for changing it back!
    11/21/2014 11:18 AMPosted by Rygarius
    Thanks for all the feedback on these changes. As a team, we do prefer personal loot as a solution for Dungeon Finder groups, which is why we modified and extended the system we’ve had in place for Raid Finder. We heard from sources both within our team and the community that the experience of defeating a boss and no ceremony beyond three gold on its corpse, or the possibility of finishing an entire dungeon without seeing any items, felt flat and even a bit broken. Based on those concerns, we decided to roll back a system that had been in place for a week to a system that had been in use for years, while we continued to polish and refine the personal loot system to deliver an optimal experience to players. However, we underestimated the impact and positive elements of personal loot, in terms of reducing contention and drama in random match made groups.

    We now have a hotfix in the works that will do two things:

  • The default loot system for Dungeon Finder groups will once again be Personal, instead of Need Before Greed. Full premade groups that prefer the latter system will be able to select it manually, as always.
  • We're increasing loot yield from the final boss of each dungeon.
    • With Personal loot active, each player in a group will now always receive an item from the final boss.
    • With Need Before Greed active, the boss will now drop 3 items to be shared among the group as desired, up from 2 previously.


  • Thank You for reconsidering this change.
    Thank you for bringing back the personal loot system. I'm sure you can figure out a way for dungeons to feel better when no loot drops.

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