Well your nerf failed horribly..

Paladin
Nothing has changed for me other than the fact I now melee for crusader strike, mana regen is the same.

Sigh.
Is a 2200 crusader strike worth it for its holy power, im not sure if you are trolling or I just missed the point :/
12/14/2010 8:42 PMPosted by Itsover
Is a 2200 crusader strike worth it for its holy power, im not sure if you are trolling or I just missed the point :/


yes, it's worth it. it's cheaper than a fol or anything +insight
lol melee holy pally.


if you're spending a global CD hitting a target rather than healing you need to be kicked from group.
<blockquote data-quote="15363457520"><div>Posted by Yehvon</div>lol melee holy pally.











if you're spending a global CD hitting a target rather than healing you need to be kicked from group.</blockquote>



lol, I don't pug, so.. have fun trying to kick me :P

edit: also i'm so bad despite being in all 346+ gear save for a trinket and weap, :/
Posted by Yehvon
lol melee holy pally.


if you're spending a global CD hitting a target rather than healing you need to be kicked from group.


if you group requires a heal every single gcd or people are going to die, then you may want to reconsider using more cc and organizing pulls better.
lol, I don't pug, so.. have fun trying to kick me :P





Yeah because pugs are for LOSERS! WOot elitist /highfive!

They're probably going to screw with CS for Holy next Tuesday, don't worry.

And Yehvon, did you think that maybe people don't need to be healed constantly? If I can get judgments in pretty easy, then adding one more GCD isn't asking much. If I'm kicked for it, then so be it. Wouldn't want to run with them anyway.
Posted by Wonderbuff
<blockquote data-quote="15363457520"><div>Posted by Yehvon</div>lol melee holy pally.





if you're spending a global CD hitting a target rather than healing you need to be kicked from group.</blockquote>



if you group requires a heal every single gcd or people are going to die, then you may want to reconsider using more cc and organizing pulls better.


this is true. my guild runs with atleast two cc. often just one mob, tank taking only damage.

it's not hard.
Posted by Janaire
They're probably going to screw with CS for Holy next Tuesday, don't worry.



And Yehvon, did you think that maybe people don't need to be healed constantly? If I can get judgments in pretty easy, then adding one more GCD isn't asking much. If I'm kicked for it, then so be it. Wouldn't want to run with them anyway.


If they screw with CS, they mess up prot and ret. They won't do it, unless they put a restriction for "holy spec" paladins to not get the holy power.

they kinda screwed the pooch on this one. :/
although on bosses I often don't use cs due to not wanting to be in boss radius.
Just ran a couple heroics. It was definitely much tougher to heal, but it is doable still.

I would like to say though, that healing is way more fun pre-nerf. And not because it was easier. The mechanics involved were just more interesting. I hardly ever have holy power anymore.

If they needed to adjust pally healing that's fine, but I'd like to see the healing style closer to where it was before.
Posted by Kirahn
Posted by Janaire
They're probably going to screw with CS for Holy next Tuesday, don't worry.

And Yehvon, did you think that maybe people don't need to be healed constantly? If I can get judgments in pretty easy, then adding one more GCD isn't asking much. If I'm kicked for it, then so be it. Wouldn't want to run with them anyway.


If they screw with CS, they mess up prot and ret. They won't do it, unless they put a restriction for "holy spec" paladins to not get the holy power.

they kinda screwed the pooch on this one. :/

although on bosses I often don't use cs due to not wanting to be in boss radius.

Wouldn't be too hard.
Posted by Reldamor
Just ran a couple heroics. It was definitely much tougher to heal, but it is doable still.



I would like to say though, that healing is way more fun pre-nerf. And not because it was easier. The mechanics involved were just more interesting. I hardly ever have holy power anymore.



If they needed to adjust pally healing that's fine, but I'd like to see the healing style closer to where it was before.


This is true.
It's not harder, just less fun now. ):
The problem with the holy paladin build was that they were too mana efficient because light of dawn hit raids like a truck. Their solution was to not only bring down the base healing of light of dawn by 40% by also eliminate the way that we build light of dawn to be used quickly.

I think they took a horrible approach to this entire process.

The big part of the fun of playing as a paladin healer is that it was building a rotation and you worked to keep the rotation. Holy shock, holy light, holy light, Word of glory for tank healing. I actually did not use Light of Dawn very much because I enjoyed the 30% chance to get back those points and typically only 2 or 3 people needed healing anyway. So I felt I was smart healing. As another poster stated, by making the changes they have made I find myself not casting holy light at all.

The only purpose to casting holy light before was because it was a mana efficient move that generated holy power. I didn't even care about the fact that it healed because you never really noticed it anyway, what's a 10k heal going to help on a 150k tank? HOWEVER, it was really nice to see when your rotation was working their hp would steadily STEADILY increase, it pretty much matched the damage incoming in most situations. Without the generation of holy power from holy light, I don't ever find myself casting it. Its a 2 second cast that hits like a pebble. I definitely don't have 2 seconds in any fight to cast such a low power spell.

All that needed to be done was a nice huge nerf to light of dawn. The entire concept behind holy pally was supposed to be healing throughput rather than AoE and HoT spells and that has been severly limited by allowing us to only generate a full 3 stack of holy power every 18 sec without using HUGE spells like Light of dawn or Flash of light.

I enjoyed the rotation, it was fun, made me feel like I was doing something exciting. When something came up and messed with the rotation I would adapt, much like a dps class. Don't get rid of the rotation, change it back and make the spells more expensive and weaker or something, just don't take away the fun from the class.

I believe someone else said something similar to the entire spec losing the fun as well. It seems to be the general consensus.
It's true. They should've just nerfed LoD. This change makes heroics a tad bit "harder" (more tedious). I never (hardly) used LoD. Most people haven't even started raids..
A big face palm at using CS to generate holy power.

3 CS + WoG = 4 GCD's, 6600 mana, 0 net holy power.

6600 mana for one WoG, really? Why are you doing this again?

If it isn't obvious enough just thinking about it go here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1406258637?page=2#36

Additionally, CS doesn't proc seals anymore. Even when he factors in procs to his math, CS was still fail. Get your SoI procs from regular old melee attacks and stop wasting mana on CS which won't proc it anyway and is horribly mana inefficient.
I did the math:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1406258637?page=2#36

Do NOT Crusader Strike. It's a net loss of mana, and a net loss of HPS.
Posted by Poppedcollar
A big face palm at using CS to generate holy power.

3 CS + WoG = 4 GCD's, 6600 mana, 0 net holy power.

Why are you doing this again?

It's more like one CS for three HP. You'll be able to cast two HS if you give it a couple more seconds.

Besides, moving into melee range will at least give us some mana back. Not having had the chance to test it myself (sharing the only computer that runs wow with your husband will do that to ya), I can't really say if it will be mana efficient or not.
Not matter how you work it, CS will not be efficient for healing. Holy power isn't nearly powerful enough to make spending 6600 mana to generate stacks and doing 0 healing in the process work it.

Additionally, if you missed my edit above, CS doesn't proc seals. Just good old fashioned auto attacks.

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