Ret Aoe?

Paladin
Is ret aoe iffy? When i do runs my aoe is really fine 13-17 but some times its just god awful 8-10 . or is it just me getting procs more on some fights? Just trying to find out if anyone else is having bad aoe compared to other classes .
12/01/2014 10:47 PMPosted by Bloodyscars
Is ret aoe iffy? When i do runs my aoe is really fine 13-17 but some times its just god awful 8-10 . or is it just me getting procs more on some fights? Just trying to find out if anyone else is having bad aoe compared to other classes .
This is my first Paladin, but from what I can tell, our AoE is good enough, but only just. Some classes shine at AoE, others at single-target, and it seems to me that Rets fall under the latter.*

*DISCLAIMER: THERE IS LIKE AN 86.57% CHANCE THAT I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT

Oh, right, and there's also that Level 100 Talent that replaces and improves Templar's Verdict, which can proc free, double-power Divine Storms -- I'd imagine that that talent would boost our AoE significantly.
Yea i feel that it fall a bit short. Single target im loving the dps its just the aoe i will see what other say but thanks for you input .
Our AoE is proc dependent. If DP and DS aren't proccing we aren't AoEing for much.
To get a good average damage on aoe you have to weave a FV then a DS. Eventually the proc train will start rolling with DP and you just go back and forth for like 10 procs lol.
The main issue I have is how HotR hits like a wet noodle.
You use HotR when there are ridiculous amount of enemies around, like ~10+.
Our AoE right now is really good, make sure you run dps meter if you are not sure.
Talent that cheese AoE fights are:
_ Light's Hammer (Compulsory for Endless Damage Proving Ground)
_ Final Verdict - This is like no brainer choice for last tier talent. It changes rotation dramatically in aoe fight and turn to FV => DS => FV => DS. When the Divine Purpose proc nonstop, feel your dps break the damage meter compare to other classes.

Meanwhile, single target damage is what I feel underpower compare to range class like mage / hunter.
Speaking of Challenge Mode:
Last boss Grimrail depot, I do half damage compare to mage.
Overall damage is good and carried by AoE.
I'm going to have to disagree with Zalndraeda here. Our AoE damage is wholly dependent upon lucky DP procs, which isn't reliable enough to give us the damage that every other class has (as far as AoE is concerned). Sure, we can pull 50k+ DPS with enough DP procs, but good luck with that. We can often be competitive, but not on every single pull like other classes.

*EDIT: I'm basing this off of the average heroic dungeon pull, not those few times in Everbloom where you get an absurd number of flowers that allow to use HotR to great effectiveness.

Single target is where I tend to shine. It is a rare day that equally/better geared DPS beat me on bosses, even ones that require a lot of movement. When I pop my cooldowns I hit around 40k single target, which eventually evens out in the 20's.

Maybe Light's Hammer makes that big of a difference, but I'd rather have Execution Sentence to take down bosses or particularly tough mobs down faster.
Retribution's AoE with Divine Purpose and Final Verdict can feel random but good. My main issue is that once again the vast bulk of our AoE damage stems from Divine Storm and its accompanying Hand of Light damage. Hammer of the Righteous is still far too weak, and Judgment/Exorcism/Hammer of Wrath still feel like filler spells only meant to fuel the Divine Storm spam to victory.

Also, I still have Seal of Righteousness and having to switch to it during AoE pulls. Can we just remove this Seal already and bake the damage back into our weaker abilities, like Hammer of the Righteous?
Our AoE seems to rely on procs a lot atm. With FV buff and a DS proc I can hit for 18k dmg and crit for over 40k with it. If you're just using DS every time you have 3 HP or 5 depending on your play style you will not have the same damage output as someone who uses FV before doing a DS.
I really enjoy our AoE rotation, I think it feels great. However, I wish it was a bit more consistent. Over a sufficiently long encounter we're fine - but as it stands we can spike between "Oh jesus, it's a shadow priest in plate!" to "Well, I didn't think it was possible to pull aggro these days. Good thing I have bubble!"

The other plate DPS seem to consistently be toward the top end of what we can get to with lucky procs. Switching out talents may help though, for boss encounters I really - really like Holy Avenger but for consistent AoE damage on trash Divine Purpose would almost certainly out perform. (If you do blow HA on trash you can do absolutely ridiculous amounts of damage though :D).

I generally tank content where AoE damage matters anyway, so it's not much of a concern to me - but it is a bit disheartening seeing the other melee still stomping on our AoE. Hey, at least we aren't shadow priests!
12/02/2014 07:37 AMPosted by Areos
Also, I still have Seal of Righteousness and having to switch to it during AoE pulls. Can we just remove this Seal already and bake the damage back into our weaker abilities, like Hammer of the Righteous?

SoR is better at just 2+ targets. Really could just leave the seal on for all dungeons and raids up till boss lol

also our aoe is disgustingly OP at times
^ I don't think people realize SoR is so much better with just 2+ targets, it doesn't require 5+ to be up for a certain period of time anymore. Our AoE is a bit proc dependent, but even without chain procs it's in a decent spot if you do the rotation properly
^ What she said.
I feel ret aoe is fantastic, but light's hammer and divine purpose really help out there. If you aren't talented those two, you will do much less aoe than a ret who is using those talents.

Question: At what point (mob count wise) do people think it better to stop using FV for buff and use all procs/holy power on DS only?
Our AoE is strong, though there is a slight delay while we ramp up. With procs it shoots through the roof. By "strong" and "through the roof" I normally see parses of about 20K+ on pulls with 4-5 mobs, and have spiked as high as 55K with some good proc luck.

It helps to know the breakpoints for AoEing. If you run DP/FV:

2+ targets: Switch from Truth to Righteousness; personally I use a macro that toggles between Truth and Righteousness. Yes, this is exactly the opposite of what we've been doing for two expansions. Also, use Empowered Divine Storm procs (from our leveling perk) *only if* you have the FV buff.

3+ targets: Begin weaving FV/DS regardless of whether or not you get an EDS proc. Continue to only use EDS procs with the FV buff, and delay procs to keep your HoPo generation up without letting them fall off - ideally you want to be doing FV-DS-FV-DS-FV-DS constantly and as smoothly as possible.

5+ targets: Use HotR instead of Crusader Strike as a Holy Power generator. At this point use EDS procs as you get them, with or without the TV buff, but continue to generate the TV buff as often as possible - any time you have a Divine Purpose proc or the Holy Power to do so and don't already have the proc.

Hope this helps. I find I can usually at least keep up with the highest DPS in the group, and have only met three individuals thus far in the expansion who've made me feel like my damage was anemic. Most groups I'm far and away the highest DPS, and that's with throwing out offheals and Hands.
12/01/2014 10:47 PMPosted by Bloodyscars
Is ret aoe iffy? When i do runs my aoe is really fine 13-17 but some times its just god awful 8-10 . or is it just me getting procs more on some fights? Just trying to find out if anyone else is having bad aoe compared to other classes .


i do 30-60k aoe dps no issue....
12/01/2014 10:47 PMPosted by Bloodyscars
Is ret aoe iffy? When i do runs my aoe is really fine 13-17 but some times its just god awful 8-10 . or is it just me getting procs more on some fights? Just trying to find out if anyone else is having bad aoe compared to other classes .


describes what I'm experiencing perfectly
Compared to similarly geared other classes (excluding mages and the like) my aoe is on par.

Make sure you are using the AoE seal, my god.
Divine Storm too stronk

12/02/2014 09:38 AMPosted by Neadien
i do 30-60k aoe dps no issue....

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