Silver Proving Ground - Serious Help

Mage
Let me introduce myself. My name is Drew, and I've been playing since patch 1.07 without real issue.

Now, I'm older, and have had a stroke. My reaction time is down. I know the mechanics of these fights, and my abilities.

Never-the-less, I continue to fail around part 4-5. By the time I've re-positioned (for Amber usage), or picked a spot to teleport to, activated any cooldowns I need, I either run out of time, or I simply cannot do enough damage to kill any remaining mobs. This is with water jet on, Orb tossed out, and mystics poly-ed.

My average ilevel is 615 (some individual items above, and some below, but the PG scales so I don't think it's that).

Help?
polymorph the amber guy. focus the healer/tank first . spec for Ice floes so you can cast while moving. once amber/heals are down you can generally drop prismatic crystal and or/blizzard everything until frozen orb is off cd. Use the pet freeze on cooldown and shatter it everytime.

From my thread on this

I've seen a lot of people complaining about how hard silver is for mages, post any tips that may help out the mages in need. I did it as frost since fire/arcane are lol right now.

-I found it very useful to poly the heals at the beginning, pet nova>ice nova the tank in almost every phase of silver. they're usually far enough away for poly to not break.

-You have 4 interrupts for the heals, make sure you watch his cast bar. Keep Ice Nova/Counterspell/Deep Freeze hotkeyed and don't let him get any spells off.

-Stand in front of the tank mob. IF he spawns with his shield facing you, blink through him and dps from the other side. Ice Nova/Deep Freeze breaks the guard if you're running out of time and need him down fast.

-ice floes. I know we joke about how garbage it is, but these fights are all fast-paced with a lot of movement, so you can't afford to stand still to cast frostbolt.

-DON"T FORGET TO SHATTER. Freeze will hit multiple mobs every time it's cast and is infinitely bettter than waterjet for this encounter. Use it on cooldown or just set to autocast if you don't have the presence of mind (lol mage joke) to keep it up yourself.

I saved all dps cooldowns for the last phase, just pop mirrors/iv and shatter-nova everything followed up with a frozen orb and ice lance spam.


and looking at your gear you have quite a bit of +mastery and only 12% multistrike. Mastery builds are fun right now but multistrike is king and frost mastery isn't very good for these kinds of fights. We're more aoe based now which kind of sucks.
Well...as far as gear goes, that's what has dropped for me right now. I take what I can get.

There has to be another way to get into them because all that ^ is just too complex for me mentally. I do fine in groups where I have a bit more time to asses a situation and react, but here, I fail completely.

As for tactics, that part I understand. What you have to realize is that due to my limited reflexes, I can't hit the right buttons quick enough. Finding a spot to teleport to, and then actually teleporting takes me a moment.

On my last attempt, I got to the phase with the first healer. I polymorphed him the second he popped. My Frozen Orb was on cooldown from last phase, so I had to just hope for a frostbolt proc until it was up. Tossed out the Orb, Lanced all the varmints, then concentrated on the healer. Massive health, little dps, and by the time I realize he's casting, I'm too late to interrupt. Can't kill him.

I even took off ALL my gear so it would scale to ilevel 0, and still fail.
i never poly'd in these fights so that will save you some cast time probably to ditch that.

i literally positioned myself before the spawn each round so i could amber one. then used counterspell when the healer started and burned it first. then just a lot of fof / brain freeze proc usage on the rest.

healer -> shield guys -> amber useage -> the rest.

on the fights with the lots of little peeps orbed, fof procs and then quick blizzards to get orb back.
The proving grounds doesn't quite work that way. There's a minimum ilvl requirement that the enemies have to be, and anything lower is just setting you back.

I just gave this a trial run so I have an idea that might help you. Buy dual-spec and pick arcane, and take the Counterspell glyph so you don't have to worry about stopping your own cast and interrupting the healer at the same time. Conjure a stack of food beforehand. Also take Supernova. Arcane Explosion glyph will help too so you have something to spam when you're moving and maybe hit more enemies.

At the start of each wave, just stand in the middle and spam Arcane Explosion until you get an idea of what you need to do (so you're doing a little bit of damage while deciding). Pick your target, and burn with Arcane Blast. Don't worry about managing your mana too much, just use Arcane Barrage now and then to make sure you don't completely run out (maybe every 5 or 6 casts or so). Eat your food between each wave to get your mana back.

When wave 4 comes out, make sure the little rats are between you and the amber shaper, and just spam spells at the amber shaper. Ignore the adds and the amber globs (they won't reach you). Once the amber shaper is dead, just cast Supernova once on the rats and then spam Arcane Explosion until they're down. They have low HP and don't really need that damage debuff in order to kill them.

For wave 5, pick out the healer and just cast Arcane Blast over and over until he dies. After a few casts, he'll start to heal so make sure you're ready to push Counterspell (this is where the glyph comes in, you don't have to worry about stopping what you're doing). Then use 1 Supernova on the rats again and AE.

Wave 6 should be easy. You shouldn't need to move around a lot. Just find the healer and keep blasting him. Once he's dead, you can work on the other two.

For wave 7 will be tricky, because you have an amber weaver and a healer. Hide behind another enemy (but not close enough to let the amber explode and hit you too) and just attack the healer, interrupting him when you need to. Try not to use Supernova on this wave though, because you'll want both of them for the last wave.

Wave 8 will be hard too, but I have a weird trick that might help you. Before the wave starts, stand in the EXACT center of the room and spam Arcane Explosion. Click on the healer when he appears, but keep casting Arcane Explosion. If he starts to heal during the first few seconds, let him do it. You're going to have two amber shapers on both sides of you, but don't move yet. When they cast their amber globs, let BOTH of them hit you. As soon as the second orb hits you, cast Blink and use both Supernovas on the healer. Because you were standing on him, he got hit with both ambers and is taking 100% extra damage instead of only 50% more. The healer will probably immediately die because of this, or at least be extremely low on health. Just turn around and finish him off. After that, you should have about 40 seconds to kill two amber shapers and that one saurok that doesn't do anything.

I hope I didn't make it too complicated. Good luck!
Thanks, but some of you aren't quite grasping what I mean when I say "mentally and physically" impaired.

12/01/2014 09:56 PMPosted by Sarm
For wave 5, pick out the healer


This may take a moment or two... something I can afford in a group while actually in an instance, where mobs are marked and others are there to cc and position mobs, but not here.

With a change to arcane, as you suggest, I'd be put more in the middle of things, and probably fry my brain in the process. I choose mage, and frost, because it allows me to stand back and have time to adjust while in group situations, and some cc while soloing.

It sounds like arcane, while more dps, would just complicate things for me.
12/01/2014 10:01 PMPosted by Megumi
Thanks, but some of you aren't quite grasping what I mean when I say "mentally and physically" impaired.

12/01/2014 09:56 PMPosted by Sarm
For wave 5, pick out the healer


This may take a moment or two... something I can afford in a group while actually in an instance, where mobs are marked and others are there to cc and position mobs, but not here.

With a change to arcane, as you suggest, I'd be put more in the middle of things, and probably fry my brain in the process. I choose mage, and frost, because it allows me to stand back and have time to adjust while in group situations, and some cc while soloing.

It sounds like arcane, while more dps, would just complicate things for me.


could try making a macro to target the healers..or try to gear up some more before...

ice nova also interrupts so i always kept those in my pocket....you don't really have to wait for the cast, just space out ur counterspell and 2 ice novas while u burn the healer...
it seems like you're creating needless barriers for yourself.
if you can't "find the healer", make a target macro.

i had some issues with my frost mage, but due to the whacky stats on gear, i wasn't able to do silver until i'd replaced all my greens.

(i don't care what people say about scaling, gear DOES make a difference)
Hm, that makes me wonder...I have a 610 rating, but some of my gear is 600 or less. It is only 610 because of the epic ring that comes from the first part of the legendary line.

As overall DPS seems to be the major factor, in not being able to kill fast enough, Maybe I simply don't have the stat totals that a pure 610 geared character would have.

Thoughts?
some of these have been said, but anyway...

Using FREEZE over Water Jet is going to be a big factor for this i think.

For those big groups of varmints, whatever they are, use frozen orb ASAP, and then blizzard to get the CD back, use FoF procs for other mobs not in the group.

Save Time warp for the last wave, and you can probably use Icy Veins on a wave before that.

at 600 iLvL I didnt have much trouble which just timing frozen orb correctly.

Maybe some new talents will help...

RoF helps with CC as you can cast it before the wave. and gives you a shatter,
Ice Nova might give you some helpful burst, (use it with shatter too)
Prismatic crystal just kills everything with Ice Nova.
Incanters flow should give you more sustained damage.

You can do it!
12/01/2014 10:01 PMPosted by Megumi
This may take a moment or two... something I can afford in a group while actually in an instance, where mobs are marked and others are there to cc and position mobs, but not here.


The mob spawn position doesn't change and they don't move. So you wouldn't need marks. On wave 5, one healer spawns towards the panda side, and the aoe mobs spawn on the wall side. On wave 6, if you're standing on the panda side, the 3 mobs will form in a straight line. Healer will be on the center, the guardian on the left and a small slayer to the right of the healer. You get more time on wave 6 than on wave 5.

Mages are somewhat similar to warlocks so that I would think the hardest part would be wave 5 and 6, especially if your ilevel is low. In wave 7 and 8, you have the amber that does the interrupt for you plus gives you a +50% in damage.

What I suggest is if you can easily clear waves 1 to 4 but get stuck in 5 and 6, use wave 3 and 4 to practice kiting the amber. Wave 8 especially is a lot easier if you can loop the amber from behind and around the 2 little virmen and into the healer.
This will kind of require some memorization of where mobs spawn, but here's what I did, and it should allow for some catching up time. Also I'm typing this not in-game so I'm going by WoWhead guide to what spawns.

Wave 4: Casted Frozen Orb on the group of Varmints and burnt the Amber Weaver not saving a single proc, then finished with Blizzard and Ice Lances with Finger of Frost that proc.

Wave 5: Same thing. Frozen Orb on the group of Varmints and burn down the Mystic.

In both waves, you may have to interrupt the Mystics heal if you don't have Ice Nova or Deep Freeze on the ready.

The rest is purely memorizing where mobs spawn and handling them in turn of Mystic> If multiple: Amber Weaver till one left>Shield>Amber Weaver>Rest. Also, save Icy Veins for Wave 8 as you don't need it for any wave before that, and it'll help with bursting down the guys ensuring your victory.
Is wave 5 with a healer and lot of rodents in middle? You indeed can poly or freeze healer while finishing rodents and come back and finish him. He has lot of HP so you will get screwed without procs. Use frozen orb on rodents if saved and water jet on healer itself.

Problem with healer is his huge HP. With low dps, this could ben a serious issue if you don't get enough procs. I struggled on this guy since outside of water jet, I was getting zero procs.

ALSO, your blizzard can lower the CD of frost orb. Quite useful.

As for positioning, just stand next to healer. I stood there for all the fights. You only have to move once amber comes out (a little) and those Mogu with shields. This way you can pick any target.
Healers are transparent fish people (Jinyu). If you see a Jinyu, that's a healer. Mantid drop amber blobs and Mogu come with a shield.
12/02/2014 03:10 AMPosted by Anomanderpur
Problem with healer is his huge HP. With low dps, this could ben a serious issue if you don't get enough procs.


Another problem with wave 5 is that you only get like 30 seconds or something. I did mine in reverse: I killed the healer first then took care of the aoe.
Ditch Frost Bomb and get Ice Nova.

Works much better for the snap AoE you need and also functions as an interrupt.

Also pick up a greater flask and a food buff from the AH/a friend. On my realm that would cost you less than 100g.

I'm not in the game rihgt now either so idk what silver waves are exactly but here is a tip if they are lots of rodents + healer.

DO NOT CC THE HEALER.

Drop frozen orb on the rodents. Generally in front of them so it moves into them. This means that you will get many lce lance procs (frozen orb generates more procs the more targets it hits).

Use these procs to kill something other than the rodents. Either the healer or the amber shaper or w/e is up.

You can always use Blizzard + Ice Nova on the rodents later but frost mage single target is low so it's a much better idea to use the frozen orb procs on the healer.

Also if the healer gets a heal off on the rodents it doesn't matter that much. If he gets a heal off on himlef then you are most likely done.
The way the scaling works is that any slot less than 600 is calculated as if it is 600, the average over all slots is taken, and if the result is higher than 615, the mobs health is scaled up.

So if your ilvl is below 615 OR any slot is below 600, the mobs will be scaled up relative to your actual ilvl and it will be harder to complete. Once all slots are at least 600 and your average is at 615 or better, the scaling should be relatively even with your increase in damage output.

Using the Amber to work for you will help a lot.

I won't comment on anything mage-specific since I don't really play Frost and my Arcane mage is still sitting in SW, but the general strategy is going to be similar for all classes and specs.

If you have trouble targeting a specific mob, a targeting macro will really help (and can be used in a dungeon as well, just modify the macro for the specific fight). You can also set up macros for interrupt and CC that use a focus target, which can make it easier to do the interrupt (I usually put in a /stopcast in such a macro as well, when I want an interrupt I want it NOW, I don't want to have to interrupt my current cast first). You can make your target macro actually set it into the focus for use by the interrupt macro.
I cleared it with full pvp Gear, It was actually a little bit of a challenge and i am like very good on a Mage 2300 atleast.

You cant really afford to waste to many GCD's with Your so called '' Positioning '' Get set up to To use pet freeze and orb icelance On proc, Use ive nova Twice When You are at 20% from Passive Frost bolt when nothing is happening.

I wouldnt really think you need to polymorph too much, as a mage just kite nuke kite nuke! Take ice barrier blazing speed Ice ward

Be sure to remember that The Summers Ground Aoe damages the Summoned Mobs(Ghost like in appearance) so focus all your damage towards the Summer and kite the Ghost Mobs through the lava.

In regards to your reduced reaction time due to unfortunate circumstances, if you don't already Use a Gaming mouse You should try one out Razor Naga is very Good. Giving you 14 Buttons on Your mouse. Most people are naturally Better with there Right hand in general.

just add my btag Skeptic#1443 if you are still unable to clear this, I feel for you. I swear Weed Dropped my PvP rating like By like 400 short term memory :S
Two things that happened for me that made silver EASY when i changed what i was doing.

1) I was CC'ing the healer. DONT. Like most people say.. Burn him fast.
- Make a macro /Target Mystic (or its correct name) etc.
2) Use the amber effectively. I was using it to burn the smaller trash mobs. Instead blink behind the healer or the amber caster and burn them with their own Amber - then AOE down the trash.

Other things of importance.

1) I hardly moved apart from dragging the orbs. Mana didnt seem a big issue. Positioning of yourself and Pet is more useful - with the occasional Blink. Blink "Momentum": Glyph gives you blinking in any direction - I understand you need to take a moment so this might not be as useful .. but I found it also handy.

Guide here - http://www.wowhead.com/news=219282/wowheads-guide-to-proving-grounds-strategies-bestiary-and-rewards#dps-bestiary

Better to be in position and eat a little than in a bad position with full mana.
I found remembering Ice flows and casting "on the run" was less important than getting into position to begin with for the start of each WAVE. There are maps \ you tube versions of the entire fight.
Run toward you new position after finishing the last wave then EAT!.

2) Pet Location - Put your pet in the middle of the ring but just on the outer edge opposite you .. seems to help with the shield tanks, pet on aggressive will usually proc the tank to shield toward your pet... so guess what.. your on the other side dpsing it down. Switch targets if it shields or Blink. Splitting your pet and you give you the ability to continue to DPS from different angles.
Note:- Pet "FREEZE" is big part of various waves, it helps your procs and helps with DPS the little adds - try and put it on your own hot bar so you can make it one of your easy keystrokes rather than searching the "Pet Bar"

3) Cooldowns - if your running out of time \ dps on the healer .. then its critical you interrupt. As someone ,mentioned cycle Ice Nova, Counter spell and Deep Freeze !
Also make a better interrupt macro just in case your on a different target
/stop casting
/target Mystic
/Cast Counter Spell (or Ice Nova, Deep Freeze etc)
I prefer to hold onto my Ice Nova if possible - see #4.

4) Ice Nova does MASSIVE damage if its you can get it off twice in a row. Might be hard for you, but if I have two charges of Ice Nova available and its a healer or big HP mob, I quickly click my PET to SAFE so he cannot cast a bolt \ water jet etc... then double tap my Ice Nova, fingers crossed I also have Fingers of Frost active. Now, its important its a double hit .. if something goes between the 1st and 2nd Ice Nova it will break the first and wont have the impact. Thats why I dont really use it in dungeons\raids - but works well in PVE on rares and also great in Proving grounds when your fight on your own \ no pet \ pet on SAFE.

PS. Trick with the Amber balls between round 4 and 5 for the first Healer Wave
It IS possible to have a amber ball up after the Large Amber Weaver dies (round 4) and use it "into" the next round 5. Kill everything else and 4/5 damage the amber guy -- watch the round counter and watch him. As soon as he pops out the amber ball close to end of the round timer .. kill him.

Round ends, ball still "alive" - so run around with it following you and then when the next wave starts
1) Run the 50% extra damage Amber ball into the Healer (Large Illusionary Mystic).
2) Double hit the healer with 2 Ice Nova charges you have saved up for the healer.

Until Point #2 - You haven't actually targeted the healer yet, so even on Assist, Pet might not shoot fast enough, but Pet on SAFE is best. Healer should die instantly from the combined 50% amber damage increase and a double Ice Nova Blast. Again, Pet SAFE only to be sure your Pet doesnt break the first Ice Nova. Then Pet back on aggressive for rest of the waves.

Agreed - a Lot of these extra tactics are complicated and not entirely recommended to your situation, but I am giving you info incase it helps tune your own damage output (e.g. Saving two ice novas) and look at re-glyphing \ talents just for the fight.

Don't beat yourself up about it.
I was getting frustrated and on Sub 600 gear and also unable to complete it. I ran a dungeon or too (normal) - came back the next day and did silver without a problem on level 602 gear.

Biggest change for me was stop being so much of a moving and utility mage - eg CC etc, and just prioritize Big Burst damage on the Healers and Burn them down, followed by the rest. The whole point of this instance is to learn your character and its teaching you how to adjust your play-style to still maximize your DPS output, even with your inabilities from your stroke.
12/01/2014 10:01 PMPosted by Megumi
Thanks, but some of you aren't quite grasping what I mean when I say "mentally and physically" impaired.

12/01/2014 09:56 PMPosted by Sarm
For wave 5, pick out the healer


This may take a moment or two... something I can afford in a group while actually in an instance, where mobs are marked and others are there to cc and position mobs, but not here.

With a change to arcane, as you suggest, I'd be put more in the middle of things, and probably fry my brain in the process. I choose mage, and frost, because it allows me to stand back and have time to adjust while in group situations, and some cc while soloing.

It sounds like arcane, while more dps, would just complicate things for me.


Sorry. You're right that I don't know what it's like to be impaired after a stroke. My suggestion of arcane was meant more because it has easy burst damage to do, and Arcane Explosion would basically give you something repetitive to hit at the start of every fight, where you'd be likely to at least hit enemies with something while you decide what to do.

I totally forgot about making a /target macro for the healer, which would be a great idea. Then all you'd have to do is just push the button and the game finds him for you.

If you're more comfortable with frost, why not swap out Frost Bomb for Unstable Magic? That would give you one less keybind to have to worry about so you're not trying to juggle it along with positioning.

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