What the Meta Feels Like

Arenas
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12/15/2014 09:04 AMPosted by Aromis
Maybe im not understanding this, but how does affliction out of all specs have synergy with combat rogues currently?


Because aff lock is hardest on your healer, and combat rogue is ALSO hardest on your healer. Its healer aids - the lock rot requires almost 100% attention, and there is a combat rogue up your butt with a 8s stun to sit through every time you get off stun DR.
Why not make interrupts DR on their own separate counter?
example: if you get kicked, thats 3 seconds, then 2 the next, then the next one interrupts for 1.25, then you have interrupt-immunity for 30 seconds.

Or maybe 30s is too long and go with the model of:
First interrupt: 3 seconds lockout, second 1.5 second lockout, then you are interrupt immune for 15 seconds.
12/15/2014 04:18 PMPosted by Waraila
12/15/2014 03:49 PMPosted by Canididate
So, using a GCD isn't worth the 4+ seconds lockout?


You also have to bear in mind that PvP isn't the only place interrupts are used. If they change interrupts to be on the global, you screw over every single raid in the game as many interrupts are needed. Having interrupts on the global disrupts the flow of dps when you are required to interrupt, and if it's a very short cast then you can inadvertently wipe your raid if you are on global.

I know you're more concerned about the PvP aspect of the game, but the devs look at both aspects.

Interrupting takes zero skill in PVE, it should be on GCD there too, that would make interrupt mechanics actually take thought and be more challenging.
12/15/2014 05:05 PMPosted by Cinnamon
'm just seeing all these nerf ret threads suggesting removing abilities we've always had. I rather not be turned into warrior clone. I don't think there is anything wrong with our defensive utility and I like the defensive hybrid style. Healing, defensive support, and removing magic seems fine to me in this meta if it came at an expensive of no distance closer or interrupt.

I agree 100% , I want rets burst greatly nerfed and none of their defensive utility nerfed or removed. Their defensive utility is what makes them unique, never remove that.
Haha what utter nonsense this thread is, and all others I have seen from OP are as well for that matter.

Balanced?

Ya go look at the 3s and RBG ladders to set yourself straight.

There are 4 Pally in the top 10 of the 3s ladder, yet zero Mages.

Is that balanced?

No?
I agree with everything you said.
I agree with most of what Jao said I am just not sure anything needs to be done about it.

Everything he said is mostly true but it was the exact same situation in MoP. Only instead of healers being trained into oblivion they were CCed into oblivion. Instead of it being melee pushing in dress wearers !@#$ it was DBK from mage/shadow priest, and Ele/Lock randomly killing someone without much effort.

Why is it bad now because melee are on top but it was fine when casters dominated everything?

I just think it's way to early to make sweeping changes to melee especially when you start talking about gap closers and up time when people are not fully geared, and with casters normally scaling better than melee in general the past three expansions.

I think addressing obvious issues like Combat Rogues and 8-12sec kidney, Deadly Throw, and other stupid stuff like instant arming trap ect...

Doing those things will change the meta and might have enough positive impact to the point you don't need to make huge changes to melee.

I mean up-time is so subjective. Who's up-time needs to be reduced? Death Knights have garbage mobility so nerfing up-time for them seems problematic. Warriors are not all that hot right now.

Seems like Ret/Feral need adjustments not all melee across the board. Double Freedom probably needs to go away. Burst of Speed is still stupid and needs to be removed from the game as well as gouge.
12/15/2014 09:32 AMPosted by Stoik
Fair point, but do you really think that 2 extra sec of kidney is that game breaking considering everything else - keeping in mind it means the rogue loses out on dance ? I feel like dance offers way more control and burst potential over the 2 extra sec of combat kidney. I think combat is just a lot easier to play, which is why they are showing up more now than sub. I still feel sub will be the dominant spec at the top (but I am really new to rogue so I could be wrong). I'm on mobile, so sorry for any typos.

I just feel like there are much bigger issues at hand than combat rogues. I do play a rogue so I may be biased, but I play three toons overall and have to face combat rogues just the same... And a good sub rogue worries me a lot more . Just my 2c


How could an 8 second stun ever be game changing in pvp? Hmmmm
12/16/2014 12:46 AMPosted by Kev
12/15/2014 09:04 AMPosted by Aromis
Maybe im not understanding this, but how does affliction out of all specs have synergy with combat rogues currently?


Because aff lock is hardest on your healer, and combat rogue is ALSO hardest on your healer. Its healer aids - the lock rot requires almost 100% attention, and there is a combat rogue up your butt with a 8s stun to sit through every time you get off stun DR.
Why is it always about countering the healer in order to win games? Sounds like healers are OP in general.
Traps have to trigger instantly now people. No more scatter shot. How do you expect hunters to land launched traps? You guys should play classes other than your own.
12/16/2014 01:55 AMPosted by Kisaki
Interrupting takes zero skill in PVE, it should be on GCD there too, that would make interrupt mechanics actually take thought and be more challenging.


May I see your mythic kills this expac then? Or the heroic kills from last expac? No? If PvE is no skill involved then surely you will have these achievements in the first month or so of the raids coming out. Just thought I'd point this out. I'm not talking about normal mode or LFR here. I'm talking mythic raiding and challenge modes here. Otherwise I could say PvP takes no skill, which would be a flat out lie. Just because you like PvP over PvE doesn't mean that PvE takes no skill in any aspect of it.

12/16/2014 09:11 AMPosted by Criming
I agree with most of what Jao said I am just not sure anything needs to be done about it.


Good luck getting people to listen to this outlook. Every time something unexpected happens with PvP, there are calls to nerf this class or that class into oblivion. Happens every single season... and honestly.. the devs doing kneejerk reactions to the complaints tend to make the situation worse.
12/16/2014 10:43 AMPosted by Waraila
Good luck getting people to listen to this outlook. Every time something unexpected happens with PvP, there are calls to nerf this class or that class into oblivion. Happens every single season... and honestly.. the devs doing kneejerk reactions to the complaints tend to make the situation worse.


I agree with this to a point. I also agree with many of the things that Jao said.

My only issue is that I think right now is to soon to make any across the board changes directed at weakening an entire set of class types.

I mean it's not good for a number of reasons but the main thing is all melee are not created equal. Not all melee need mobility nerfs. Some melee have their defensive ability tied into their mobility like Wind Walker.

I just seem these passionate well reasoned post by many about why melee need to be nerfed, and I wonder where these well thought up write ups where when casters were laying waste to everything in MoP.

I think there is a major bias in the player base that feel that the game is just better and more enjoyable (for them) when casters dominate, and make melee worthless.

As I said there are obvious things that need to be fixed like double freedom, 8-12sec stun chain from rogues, feral mobility, and hybrid healing across the board.

Casters normally start to dominate the end of the second season of an expansion, and it just carries on every season after that until the end of the expansion.

We are two weeks into the season. I think waiting until the mid point of next season before across the board mechanic changes are done to bring melee down are made. If history hold true nothing will need to be done to bring parity to the caster/melee arms race.
12/16/2014 10:43 AMPosted by Waraila
May I see your mythic kills this expac then? Or the heroic kills from last expac? No? If PvE is no skill involved then surely you will have these achievements in the first month or so of the raids coming out. Just thought I'd point this out. I'm not talking about normal mode or LFR here. I'm talking mythic raiding and challenge modes here. Otherwise I could say PvP takes no skill, which would be a flat out lie. Just because you like PvP over PvE doesn't mean that PvE takes no skill in any aspect of it.

Read what I said again, you're being overly defensively to something I didn't even say.

I said interrupt mechanics in PVE don't take skill, just like they don't in PVP, because interrupts aren't on the GCD.

12/16/2014 09:49 AMPosted by Iwinlol
Traps have to trigger instantly now people. No more scatter shot. How do you expect hunters to land launched traps? You guys should play classes other than your own.

Do you honestly not see a problem with instant cast 40(is it 40?) yard range unavoidable CC? This expansion was supposed to get rid of unavoidable instant cast CC.
Boomkin here. I just hit 100 and my gear isn't good but that's no excuse. Here's my observations:

If a pet is put on me, it's a buff to my damage.

My self heals people complain about: rejuvenation gives me 2,000 +/- 200 health every 3 seconds, dispellable; Healing Touch for 13k health. That's not amazing. At all. We don't function like a healer where even 1/3 of a health pool can be refilled instantly or in one cast. Topping myself off takes almost 10 casts and in PvP that will OOM me to do repeatedly.

We have no innervate or any functional way to refill mana.

Cyclone lasts 4 seconds on most people. That usually means I can get one starfire off if I'm within LOS of the actual target, and since the target is usually a healer nowadays then it's only a useful cast if there's 0 DR on it.

MeleeDPS (especially a rogue) completely stops my damage and makes me run which still doesn't work because of all the stuns and reliable CCs out there. My roots people QQ about BREAKS ON DAMAGE meaning that I can't both kill you and CC you. There's zero dispel protection on it so come on people get your dispel button on your bars.

RangedDPS is powerful but so easy to LOS that as a hybrid I feel confident fighting against them unless they're affliction because of DOTS still ticking hard while i'm LOSing cc and possibly my healers.

There's no way for me to DPS a target I also have CC'd and besides bash, which is nice but still only allows ONE cast to get through during it's duration (seriously. one cast.) I can't reliably interrupt anyone or put pressure on. Running away for a boomkin means zero damage going out. Line of sight a boomkin = profit.

If I can partner with someone who can keep a target in the open and slowed and off of me while freecasting, sure, I'm a slaughterhouse. That doesn't mean overall in PvP we are strong.

TLDR; rerolling lock today. Haven't played one since TBC so I guess it's time. I'd petition to be put on 2.5 not tier 2. Tier 2 shouldn't be "if nobody realizes I'm in the arena I can do average damage"

P.s., I've only been as good as duelist, so no my opinion isn't for the top tier Gladiators but of the everyman middle of the pack kind of player.

edit1: missed a couple words

edit2: adding the ps
12/15/2014 01:47 PMPosted by Nahj
12/15/2014 01:36 PMPosted by Jao
Is he playing with Mageiden?

mageiden played combat rmpala with generic.

Paladin is best healer for rogue mage this patch/meta. 30 sec forbearance and freedom glyph are way too strong. Mages are very weak right now and sub has a lot of bad match ups particularly against both ret and holy paladins.

Though combat is a lot stronger cooldown value wise against paladins to be able to carry a mage, but at that point why isn't the rogue just fotming a real comp if they are already selling out to play a boring spec.

Even pika jah and starship tanked as sub rmd to way inferior players. Most of pika's success this season from what I've seen/heard was rogue boomkin priest (pre nerf to boomkin) and some rdruid thug cleave.


I have a lot of fun playing with Mageiden and Felorea, they are some of my best friends in WoW. I also enjoy playing combat because it's fun. The spec you choose to play in a game isn't "selling out..." Also, I don't think that mage class is being carried at all, Mageiden is the best mage in the game atm in my opinion.

Finally, we hit 2500 originally as SUBTELTY rmd with Prevy, it's not like the comp is super weak or anything.

Sorry I like playing with the homies!
12/16/2014 02:51 PMPosted by Genericz
Mageiden is the best mage in the game atm in my opinion.


hahahahaha.
12/16/2014 02:55 PMPosted by Vayris
12/16/2014 02:51 PMPosted by Genericz
Mageiden is the best mage in the game atm in my opinion.


hahahahaha.


He's highest rated world and consistently outplays every other mage regardless of his comp
12/16/2014 02:57 PMPosted by Genericz
He's highest rated world and consistently outplays every other mage regardless of his comp


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0
My issue isn't solely with the mobility of some melee and their uptime. It's that up time combined with interrupts and pseudo interrupts and general instant CC.

They went into this expansion wanting people to play their classes more. I spend most of my time in PVP healing myself because I'm getting trained by melee who are extremely difficult to peel.

I watched a stream last night of of some high rated players training a Resto Shaman every single time they came up against one. Without fail.

You hear them call out their interrupts and pseudo interrupts and they can literally chain these things. Two kicks, deep a heal, typhoon a heal, bash a heal and it goes on.
I'm of the belief that clemency is great for holy but breaks ret. Every class should have a weakness because that makes the game more interesting. Currently ret have zero downsides.

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