No flying in 6.1

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From the Reddit AMA:

Whether you’re navigating your way to Orumo the Observer in Shattrath Rise, trying to reach a treasure cache atop a column in Spires, or working your way around the ledges encircling The Pit, you’re engaging in gameplay that simply would not exist in a world with unfettered flight.
That so-called gameplay that they mention are the situations where I'm basically cursing them for not having flight in the first place (especially navigating the walls of the Pit, one of the most frustrating things for me to deal with on Draenor). If the Pit wasn't worth 1000 apexis crystals I'd avoid it like the plague. The Pit would not feel out of place if they simply put it underground (the railroad tracks could be seen to be part of a maze of mining cart railroad tracks for example) and then they can have their awful "gameplay" (aka frustrating travel situation) and flight could still be enabled throughout the zone.

The sooner they implement flight the better... if I could fly then I'd actually want to leave my garrison instead of only going out to do my chores (apexis dailies and garrison-related stuff) then hearthing back to my garrison or leaving Draenor altogether.
12/05/2014 06:29 AMPosted by Aehl
here's no reward without a challenge or struggle


Like the efforI I put in to get the flight mounts in the first place?


You mean the ones you were able to use for 4 xpacs and can still use in those areas?
12/05/2014 06:20 AMPosted by Wolvomo
What problem could that possibly be? That there's a rock in your way? Be more realistic. Just stop playing if that type of stuff is game breaking.


Quitting and giving up a game and a community I have loved for 10 years isn't something I am going to do without a fight. I have until February to make a decision about whether I can enjoy the game without flying, since that's when my account time expires.

My absolute favorite memory in the game of all time was doing the epic flight form quest on my druid in Burning Crusade, and unlocking my epic flight form so I could explore the world as an epic looking flying bird. That was content I found enjoyable and loved.

When I talk about WOD, all I'm going to talk about is the inside of my garrison and not the rest of the world. That makes me sad. I don't even care if I can fly inside my garrison or not. I care that having to train mobs behind me to the raid dungeon every day is annoying. I care that they couldn't be bothered to put a flight path near the raid dungeon so I could avoid training mobs behind me. I hate having my time wasted by what I feel is poorly designed terrain that is put in my way just simply to waste my time. I hate having to take res sickness in various zones because the process of getting out of the place I got stuck training mobs behind me would take more than 10 minutes to get out of (whereas it would take 10 seconds on a flying mount). I don't enjoy jumping puzzles. I don't enjoy exploring on my ground mount. The only thing I hate about Warlords is the fact I can't fly to bypass irrelevant content.

I love flying. Flying increases my own personal enjoyment of the game. Flying is the only thing that will make me go out in the world at max level once raiding has started up. Garrison content in 6.1 has to be amazing to keep my interest in the game.

They also need to put in a flight path closer to the raid dungeon portal so I can avoid all the crap on the ground if flight paths and going AFK while someone else flies me to the raid portal is the answer to me wanting to be able to fly there myself.
12/05/2014 05:38 AMPosted by Wolvomo
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Getting better at the game will change nothing. There is no valid reason to keep a level 100 grounded.


Oh, save for the fact that world pvp actually exists, treasures, profession and garrison resource farming aren't trivialized, The world actually feels alive and tangible, content isn't skipped, etc?


* This is a PvE game. PvE content should never be hampered in the name of PvP.

* Treasures are personal and one-time only. I could almost give you this one if there was competition for them. Also, at 100, the time I'm talking about allowing flight, the majority of them are DE/vendor fodder.

* The mere existence of the garrison makes resource farming largely irrelevant. You can fish, mine, and herb without ever setting foot into the world.

* When I do venture out, the world is largely dead. I don't see a massive influx of people over what I saw when I could fly in MoP.

* I'm not trying to skip content. I'm trying to get from A to B as efficiently as possible in order to experience content. Circuitous routes and swatting gnats is not content.
12/05/2014 05:38 AMPosted by Wolvomo
Oh, save for the fact that world pvp actually exists, treasures, profession and garrison resource farming aren't trivialized, The world actually feels alive and tangible, content isn't skipped, etc?


World PVP is not a concern of mine. I think I've seen less world PVP on my server than in Pandaria. I've seen the occasional flagged Hordie in SMV, but I've not seen anyone actually fighting.


You are on a PvE server where Alliance outnumber Horde 2:1. I'd be surprised if you saw any PvP happening at all.

That doesn't make my point any less relevant, however.

The treasures scattered around the world are trivial to begin with. At level cap, most players will probably have dozens if not hundreds of treasures left to find, and they will vendor 95% of the gear rewards from them.


Whatever you do with the treasures doesn't change the fact that flying would completely neuter the challenge posed before you.

Professions are gimped by cooldowns which will keep them in check no matter how much gathering a player does, and garrison resource farming has made open world resource farming so pointless that it wouldn't be harmed even if players could fly at level cap.


This is actually something I agree with. I've no idea why they decided to make profession farming a negligible venture. In the same case, people that go out to cut down trees, gather treasures, or do quests are open game to anything venturing in the same vacinity. That makes the game feel more alive. In your game, I'd see a player swoop down, cut a tree, and fly right back into the air. How exciting!

As someone who has focused on open world content in past expansions, the world feels as alive as it ever did. It will die down as more players hit level cap and wander off into their queues, like it always does. It might end up being deader in the long run thanks to garrisons.


This is a different issue than flying. Garrisons presents it's own pluses and minuses and that could be discussed in a different thread. However, with the removal of flight it's one big step towards making this world feel like a world again.

At least temporarily, when they inevitable enable flight at a future date.

Content will still be skipped. If you have it, it's dumb not to use the ability to avoid meaningless combat. So, I'm still camouflaging my way into locations to get treasures and kill specific quest targets and ignore the trash. I think I'm using camouflage more in this expansion than I ever did in the previous one. guess camouflage will have to go next.


It's great that you're using your class abilities to get around in the world! That's what I like to hear. What I don't like to hear is this universal mechanic that breaks any and all reason to use those abilities they give you and keep you at 0 risk for anything bad to happen what so ever.
12/04/2014 04:33 PMPosted by Bulik
our reasons for disallowing flight in 6.0 continue to apply in 6.1.


Again I shall say, no flying while leveling is fine. Let us fly at max level if we so choose to.

Those who wish to fly can, & those that wish to stay on the ground can do so.

The immersion thing doesn't even happen. There's no one around. I see maybe 10 other people a day out in the world.
12/05/2014 06:13 AMPosted by Lissanna
Just because I'm still playing doesn't mean that being ground locked at level 100 has improved my enjoyment of the game. Instead, it just proves that having my subscription enabled at this moment in time is preferable to giving up my community leader position I spent 10 years building up. We all have different motivations for playing the game. For me, the people who count on me for leadership, guidance, and my guide writing matter. The fact that no flying is the only thing I hate about WOD absolutely just breaks my heart.

Very similar to my own motivations. I raid, I RP, I spend time with my friends and help others in the game. I'm not a "community leader" perhaps, but there are people who count on me in WoW, and friends that I wouldn't have otherwise. As I said before (I posted on Zrimgor earlier), I love this expansion, but the lack of flying is almost enough to kill it for me. Almost.

I'm an RPer and an explorer, and without flight, I feel like a rat that's been stuck in a maze. I don't like that feeling. I don't enjoy the jump puzzles. Honestly, if they were able to implement a way that flight could exist, but you couldn't get the treasures in Draenor unless you had gotten to them on foot, I'd be totally fine with not having any of the Draenor treasures. I want to be able to find new and interesting places to hang out with my friends without being attacked by mobs, or that aren't overly crowded by other players so that we can RP in peace. It's really, really hard to do that without the ability to fly.
12/05/2014 06:30 AMPosted by Bloodscent
12/05/2014 06:29 AMPosted by Aehl
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Like the efforI I put in to get the flight mounts in the first place?


You mean the ones you were able to use for 4 xpacs and can still use in those areas?


You mean those areas that are completely irrelevant to current content?
12/05/2014 06:26 AMPosted by Rollo
12/05/2014 06:18 AMPosted by Donweedity
Seriously pro-flyers make it sound like there are NO flight paths and you have to walk everywhere. Flight paths are amazing in this expansion, there's a flight path usually for wherever you need to go, then just a short ride away to your destination. It really isn't that complicated, your just lazy.


It really isn't that complicated to figure out that If I have a plane that's paid for and I've jumped through multiple sets of hoops to use it over the past few years that I would rather use my own plane and fly myself, and have a chance to interact with the world as I pass it (taming a pet, mining a node, harvesting a tree, etc.), than pay someone else to use their plane, which is identical to mine, and have zero interaction.

I'd rather play the game and do these things for myself than have a boring and mindless taxi or portal do it for me.


Yes, you use the flight path to get to the area you desire so you can do the work you desire.

In reality people don't fly their own planes to different places. You pay for flight paths.

Also, you just proved all no-flyers points. We don't want to just pop on a mount, fly for a second, find a node, mine it, poof away. Instead now you actually have to look for it, explore, interact.
12/05/2014 06:30 AMPosted by Bloodscent
12/05/2014 06:29 AMPosted by Aehl
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Like the efforI I put in to get the flight mounts in the first place?


You mean the ones you were able to use for 4 xpacs and can still use in those areas?

Why yes, the very same mounts that you're able to use on the ground anyway!

Clearly all that time was wasted because I can't use these mounts to fly in circles around my garrison.
[/quote]

99.9999999% of the players are in the game and aren't even aware this thread exists. If wow isn't fun without flying people will quit and they will provide that feedback when they exit. The thing is, everyone knew there would be no flying in wod at release, yet we still had 10 million people playing the game. If flight truly was the most fun thing in wow then I wouldn't expect those numbers.[/quote]

As someone who is undecided about the outcome of flight (meaning I couldn't care less either way), I was not aware that flight wasnt going to be implemented in WoD til a few weeks before the launch. I could see how some people would have been disappointed in pre ordering MONTHS before since the expac was on Pre sale for quite some time.

And people do quit and submit thier displeasure with no flying. It's all over the forums. Do this people really quit...? Only blizzard really knows that. However people do get flamed into oblivion about it. Even if their post is full of multiple reasons why they are leaving they will say something like "no flight" or "lack of flight" and the trolls and flamers will quote them and say "stopped reading there" or "your post is invalid".

People are entitled to their opinion. It's a part of nature to have one. You may or may not agree with it but they are still entitled to feel how the feel about it.

I dislike the changes to crafting. Will I quit for it? No. But I can tell you I just won't participate in it anymore and move one.
12/05/2014 06:32 AMPosted by Yaramuk
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You mean the ones you were able to use for 4 xpacs and can still use in those areas?


You mean those areas that are completely irrelevant to current content?

You know what's relevant content?

Highmaul.

Can you fly there? :)
You mean the ones you were able to use for 4 xpacs and can still use in those areas?


So tell me, in the last few weeks, how much time have you spent in Northrend?
12/05/2014 06:30 AMPosted by Doiry
Oh, so they extended a thread about flying instead of deleting it.

Are they actually listening now?

Hey Blizz, I am a disgruntled customer. Do you know why? Your GM's, CM's and DEV's are condescending and treat us like we don't matter. Guess what? Your money comes from us. Your PR comes from us. What would you do without us? Go free to play?

Ever since the announcement in 2013 that there would be no flying, the community has blown up about it. Yet you kept with it. Except you went back and forth on your stance about it. Then Alex was condescending in an interview and on twitter that there will not be flying at ship. No more information. If the plan was to release content that you did not want flying ever then why not just say that so that people like me could stop wasting time and money and not buy WoD in the first place? Bait and switch much? And you ask for feedback, but every thread on flying gets deleted and posts linking to things said by Bashiok and other blizz employees on the topic are deleted. Really? You only care about your $$$ and not what we think.

Your ground mechanics suck. They are not fun, they are frustrating and annoying. Create islands with that crap for the people that want it. Most of us don't. Treasure hunting isn't a fun thing but rather something that feel mandatory along with garrisons. Don't get me wrong I like that I can get gear from garrisons but it suffers from luonarrative dissonance like nothing else in this game. Garrisons kill immersion and have caused all sorts of balance issues with professions and sucks the fun out of them. In Diablo III when this would happen the responsible components would get nerfed to the ground. What does that tell you about the ground mechanics and garrisons?

Actually thinking about it, WoD feels like timeless isle with a FB game strapped on top of it. Why did i waste money on this crap?

Since BC came out, and especially during WOTLK, my spare time in WoW was spent collecting flying mounts and flying around exploring this world that you have created for us. Then Cata came and I was allowed to explore old world in the same manner, I can not begin to describe my excitement. Flying was/is one of the best additions to this game that stands out from other games and MMO's. Now all my mounts I have collected are useless (including ones bought from the store) and my favorite past time is no more.

FP's suck. They cost gold and are slow. They don't fly in straight lines and have to fly between nodes instead of straight to the destination. The destination of which is never where I actually want to go but a good 5-10 minutes away. I spent over 100g last night on FP's. I have spent over $3k since starting WoD. I want that gold back. Even the act of finding a FP, opening the interface, determining which FP I want to take is 10x longer than mounting up and flying. I am spending way less time actually playing the game just trying to get around! Its annoying and frustrating coming from BC, WOTLK where I actually got to play and enjoy the content.

Not to mention the incredibly horrible map design that makes me get stuck every 10 minutes forcing me to use the unstuck feature (which I also have a gripe with using my hearthstone causing me to spend another 30 minutes just getting back to where I was). I have never gotten lost before in WoW, even in the vanilla days. But Gorgrond sure cuts the cake in this department. Even Nagrand I find myself more and more frustrated trying to get around the terrain.

I want to enjoy your content, but everyday I get home and the thought of having to deal with the FPs and terrain make me log on only to maintain my garrison.

Diablo III was ruined by your initial team. They tried to tell us what was fun. They failed. We do not want you to tell us what is fun, we just want to have fun. I know its a stretch to point fingers at Jay Wilson but when he left the team, they started listening to the community and now DIII is a lot of fun. WoD is going the way of DIII on release. Flying could have kept me here, but now I have this sour taste in my mouth from the way you have treated us.

TL:DR

Blizzard should have stated 6-12 months ago there would be no flying in WoD due to ground mechanics/content and saved us the time/money spent on mounts, xpac, and subscription.


It's giant walls of irrelevant text like this that make me mad.

Your GM's, CM's and DEV's are condescending and treat us like we don't matter? Are you freaking kidding me? Get over yourself. Really. Not to mention your saying this just because they won't let you fly!?

They aren't your minions bent to do whatever you want. A vast amount of players love the no flying. These forums reflect like 5 percent of the actual community. Everyone else on the Stormreaver server seems perfectly happy!
12/05/2014 06:33 AMPosted by Röùgêlòrdqtx

Why yes, the very same mounts that you're able to use on the ground anyway!

Clearly all that time was wasted because I can't use these mounts to fly in circles around my garrison.


I don't care about flying in my garrison one way or the other.

I want to fly in Nagrand so I can fly over the irrelevant mobs and giant mountains that block my path when I am trying to get to relevant content so I can do fun and enjoyable things. I want to be able to fly to get to fun content that I will do on the ground.

I want to fly to bypass irrelevant content. Put flight paths ontop of all the mountains in Nagrand and right next to the raid dungeon portal if flight paths are some how preferable to just letting me fly myself to where I want to go.
Can you fly there? :)


On a flight mount? Yes, there and back , wont cost me gold and I can get there faster than on a flight path.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

You mean the ones you were able to use for 4 xpacs and can still use in those areas?


You mean those areas that are completely irrelevant to current content?


Those flying mounts were able to be used when said effort was put in to get them. So what flying mounts have you put in effort to get in WoD? OH right, none.
12/05/2014 06:32 AMPosted by Killercaitie
12/04/2014 04:33 PMPosted by Bulik
our reasons for disallowing flight in 6.0 continue to apply in 6.1.


Again I shall say, no flying while leveling is fine. Let us fly at max level if we so choose to.

Those who wish to fly can, & those that wish to stay on the ground can do so.

The immersion thing doesn't even happen. There's no one around. I see maybe 10 other people a day out in the world.


I was in Arak recently doing a fishing daily. I saw a grand total of three other people. One of which was also fishing, and the other two killed a nearby rare and then left.

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