I see holy pallies stacking too much haste

Paladin
It's true.

Various people have stated that haste should be stacked to a comfortable amount, which is about as much as to bring HL and DL to 2 second cast. That's 20% haste. Through talents and buffs a paladin can get 12% haste on their own, 15% if in a group with a boomkin, warlock, etc. That means 5-8% haste needed.

I see a lot of people going for 10-11% completely forgetting they specced into Speed of Light and receive a passive 3% haste (does not show up on stat page).

I encourage paladins with this much haste to reforge it to crit until they hit the 8% (heroics) or 5% (raids). Remember, crit helps keep Conviction up while giving a higher chance of proccing Infusion of Light, not to mention more mana efficient heals.
I know people says Too much haste makes you less mana efficient. But its really about your playstyle. The more haste = the more time you can hit in melee with seal of insight or judge. I am not saying we should reforge ALL the crit we have in haste, but people have different playstyle. accept it.
yes..you can stack too much haste, but dont reforge to crit. Spirit and mastery are always better to reforge to. If i have to choose between haste and crit haste is much better.

The speed of light buff does give you a <1sec cast on DL or HL but there are still moments when you would love to have those spells go quicker and you dont have the speed buff. Haste is guaranteed more healing.

Crit on the other hand is no longer as viable as it was. In icc with 100%+ chance to crit a FoL on a sacred shield target crit was good, but now that you dont get your 30% mana back of a crit i just see it as a lower tier stat.
Crit on the other hand is no longer as viable as it was. In icc with 100%+ chance to crit a FoL on a sacred shield target crit was good, but now that you dont get your 30% mana back of a crit i just see it as a lower tier stat.


The soft cap for crit is around 30% to keep Conviction up at all times (although some argue that 20% is sufficient).


If possible, could someone who has stacked mostly haste post some raid boss Healing Done meters? I'm curious what kind of HPS you pull and compare it to mine.
Haste is better than crit just because it's more reliable. As long as you have enough combat regen, use HS and Judge on CD and 3HP WoG, you're not going to go oom spamming HL.

I have about 11% haste on the sheet, so usually around 23% haste. It's nicer to have a faster heal so you're not forced to use FoL as often, plus you'll be able to use HL more before you need to fill with DL to bring the tank back up a bit more.

I haven't raided at all yet, but the Baradin Hold run my guild did I pulled about 9.7k hps. The holy priest with me did about 7.9k. We're going to make some attempts in 10 mans tonight, so I'll record my combat log.
12/21/2010 9:29 AMPosted by Rayocell
Haste is better than crit just because it's more reliable. As long as you have enough combat regen, use HS and Judge on CD and 3HP WoG, you're not going to go oom spamming HL.

I have about 11% haste on the sheet, so usually around 23% haste. It's nicer to have a faster heal so you're not forced to use FoL as often, plus you'll be able to use HL more before you need to fill with DL to bring the tank back up a bit more.

I haven't raided at all yet, but the Baradin Hold run my guild did I pulled about 9.7k hps. The holy priest with me did about 7.9k. We're going to make some attempts in 10 mans tonight, so I'll record my combat log.


11% on the sheet + 3% from SoL + 9% from Jotp + 5% from moonkin/shadowpriest/hunter pet = 28%
*sigh*

Bad arguments are bad.

Why is this a bad argument? Everyone is healing very, very, very differently right now. There are no hard and fast rules as to what spell to cast. If you think there is, I'd love it if you would just stop posting now, because it will save me the trouble of seeing a bad post.

I can play this every which way. Crit? RNG based healing sucks. Spirit? Don't need that much regen if your crits are big enough. Mastery? Terrible, gets overwritten/refreshes only, wastes the proc.

Don't say a stat sucks just because you think it does. Thats a failed argument from the start.

Moving on.
12/21/2010 11:31 AMPosted by Beowôlf

11% on the sheet + 3% from SoL + 9% from Jotp + 5% from moonkin/shadowpriest/hunter pet = 28%


Except haste stacks multiplicatively, not additively. So with those numbers, you're talking 30.85% haste, not 28%.
RNG based healing sucks but the fact is crits = bigger heals for no extra mana. And the more you crit, the more you proc. Haste might help you pump out faster heals, but the name of the game is mana conservation right now, and that is NOT something haste helps with.
Haste is more HPS with the same amount of HPM. There is no reduction in mana efficiency if you don't overheal.
12/21/2010 11:47 AMPosted by Vervacious
RNG based healing sucks but the fact is crits = bigger heals for no extra mana. And the more you crit, the more you proc. Haste might help you pump out faster heals, but the name of the game is mana conservation right now, and that is NOT something haste helps with.


Again, this is a bad argument.

Crits = bigger heals when they happen. Likely to happen and actually happening are not the same.

Haste lets you pump out faster heals when they are needed. If you're spamming during every fight, I'd say you're doing it wrong. If no one needs a heal, you don't heal.
12/21/2010 11:58 AMPosted by Setanta
RNG based healing sucks but the fact is crits = bigger heals for no extra mana. And the more you crit, the more you proc. Haste might help you pump out faster heals, but the name of the game is mana conservation right now, and that is NOT something haste helps with.


Again, this is a bad argument.

Crits = bigger heals when they happen. Likely to happen and actually happening are not the same.

Haste lets you pump out faster heals when they are needed. If you're spamming during every fight, I'd say you're doing it wrong. If no one needs a heal, you don't heal.


But again, Haste does not help mana efficiency. Crit does. And it leads to a greater number of procs. If you think you aren't going to crit more with 15% than with 5%, you're wrong. Those crits increase the amount of healing you do without costing any extra mana, and it affects every single fight.
12/21/2010 12:02 PMPosted by Vervacious


Again, this is a bad argument.

Crits = bigger heals when they happen. Likely to happen and actually happening are not the same.

Haste lets you pump out faster heals when they are needed. If you're spamming during every fight, I'd say you're doing it wrong. If no one needs a heal, you don't heal.


But again, Haste does not help mana efficiency. Crit does. And it leads to a greater number of procs. If you think you aren't going to crit more with 15% than with 5%, you're wrong. Those crits increase the amount of healing you do without costing any extra mana, and it affects every single fight.


Crits are still RNG-based. 15% chance is better than a 5% chance for sure, but there will be times where you crit 3 times in a row, overhealing when you didn't need to, or there will be times where you will fail to crit 5 times in a row, potentially leading to more mana usage. The only proc crit is good for is Infusion of Light with HS, so I'm not sure on what you mean by multiple procs. Relying on RNG for mana efficiency = bad idea, imo.

Haste, however, is constant. You don't need to rely on RNG to do more healing, because you KNOW you are doing more healing, and can thus plan your healing ahead of time. And like Setanta said, if no one needs healing, you don't need to heal. No healing = no mana usage.
Haste increases raw output a lot easier than crit. Though I would like just enough crit to keep up Conviction... Gotta balance and rotate those stats to find the most efficient setup for your play style.
12/21/2010 12:22 PMPosted by Dubalicious
If possible, could someone who has stacked mostly haste post some raid boss Healing Done meters?


Strictly 10 man logs, but here ya go.



You have a greater % of crit than haste, and your MP5 is thru the roof. When my MP5 is that high, I'll be stacking haste as well.



Strictly 10 man logs, but here ya go.



You have a greater % of crit than haste, and your MP5 is thru the roof. When my MP5 is that high, I'll be stacking haste as well.


Because crit is there in boatloads on gear - I have reforged crit away from every piece of gear I own, and I still have over 14% crit, 11% haste.

But holy crap I want your regen Dub :D No mana issues right now, but that may change soon.
I think this is mainly because players are not fully understanding why some others have large amounts of haste. We should do our best to spread good information, and for that purpose this thread is awesome! Thank you! I personally don't like Haste and prefer Mastery over Crit, so I have gone that route. :D

Its not wrong, it is just different.

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