Glyph of Savage Roar vs. Savagery?

Druid
Hello all,

I am really new to feral druid, I stayed away from it because I really dislike having to keep a buff up just to increase my damage.

These glyphs seem to help that situation but I still have questions about it. I know icy veins says Savage Roar is superior.

Currently I am using Savage Roar, but in longer boss fights I still find I have down time where the buff isn't on. I either forget about it, or don't time my combo points correctly and have to wait till I build enough.

If I switch to Savagery will I have a DPS increase? Although it reduces Savage Roar by 10%, I will never have any downtime on the buff.

I know the better answer is to just get more efficient at the class, and that certainly is a work in progress.

Any help or tips would be greatly appreciated.

Also be gentle, still new to this guy haha!
Taking glyph of savagery is just gimping yourself in the long run. I recommend just learning to play with savage roar, it'll only help you develop as a player.
If you don't mind me asking, how is taking the glyph gimping myself?

Is there a negative to using it?

Thank you for the response.
01/03/2015 06:02 PMPosted by Hillti
If you don't mind me asking, how is taking the glyph gimping myself?

Is there a negative to using it?

Thank you for the response.


There's a small theoretical loss to using it. From what I've read it's in the neighborhood of a 4% difference on a Patchwerk fight. Anyone have actual sims showing the difference though?
01/03/2015 06:02 PMPosted by Hillti
If you don't mind me asking, how is taking the glyph gimping myself?

Is there a negative to using it?

You're not learning how to play your spec fully, the ~3% dps difference is just a short term loss in this situation.

If you absolutely can't stand using SR then by all means run glyph of Savagery, but I personally wouldn't recommend playing with that crutch. Upkeep of SR is ez-mode as NE, you have Incarnation and shadowmeld + prowl for a comfortable 2 and a half minutes of fully buffed Savage Roar.
A 1cp Savage roar gives you 18sec for the cost of 1 global. Its so worth paying attention to and having the Glyph of Savage Roar.

^^^ Or that above if you are NE.
I will just stick with it and practice then!

Thanks for the info everyone, I really appreciate it. :D
01/03/2015 06:10 PMPosted by Feathring
There's a small theoretical loss to using it. From what I've read it's in the neighborhood of a 4% difference on a Patchwerk fight. Anyone have actual sims showing the difference though?


Its 4% if played perfectly. I often wonder how much of a difference it is in RL scenarios. I bet its around 1% 2% at the most.
that 4% is only going to matter in Mythic, and on fights where there isn't a whole lot else to compromise performance -- about the only fight that this falls under is Butcher, since pretty much every other fight has a ton of extra mechanics that throw a wrench in everything.

eg: Mythic Brackenspore; if you're not moving for shrooms at your feet, you're moving for waves, and if not either of these, you're trying to get to a mushroom possibly throwing heals on it, and if not any of this (or concurrent with all of this), you're interrupting & double dotting while the big add is up, or sometimes throwing some damage on a fungus, all of that before even worrying about single target on the boss. It's the kind of fight with just a ton of stuff going on where the "4%" difference might be made up for with having 1 less buff to worry about.
Each has it places for many players the 30 at all times would be better then the 40 sometimes. Why cause its all about the percents. Only Sims and the top 1 percent are good enough to make the diff be about 4 percent loss.. So if you are not a 1%player some 3k+ arena players, many players are showing they gain dmg from extra FB's or when they have to move or when they over lapped a dot to soon and were not going to have energy to refresh a rip before roar was going to fall. The list goes on and on, most players aka 99 percent of the players that play wow are not in the top 1 percent.. Simple math.
01/04/2015 10:08 PMPosted by Drcow
Each has it places for many players the 30 at all times would be better then the 40 sometimes. Why cause its all about the percents. Only Sims and the top 1 percent are good enough to make the diff be about 4 percent loss.. So if you are not a 1%player some 3k+ arena players, many players are showing they gain dmg from extra FB's or when they have to move or when they over lapped a dot to soon and were not going to have energy to refresh a rip before roar was going to fall. The list goes on and on, most players aka 99 percent of the players that play wow are not in the top 1 percent.. Simple math.


It's really not hard to maintain the Glyph of Savage Roar rotation with a bit of practice. I fervently disagree with all posts where people say that for most players Glyph of Savagery is the better choice for this reason: someone just came to the forums looking for ways to improve their damage. That should mean they are willing to learn new things to get the optimal damage, and therefore shouldn't use "one rotation is easier" as a crutch. It really doesn't take much practice to learn to keep SR up 100% of the time, and there are addons like Droodfocus that provide great displays for it.

Also to above posters, Shadowmeld does not allow a trigger of Glyph of Savage Roar. It does however proc Empowered Rake. This was done so that not all ferals would be required to play NE, as shadowmeld being a Glyph of Savage Roar on a 2min Cooldown would be insane.
01/05/2015 02:56 AMPosted by Bradykin

It's really not hard to maintain the Glyph of Savage Roar rotation with a bit of practice. I fervently disagree with all posts where people say that for most players Glyph of Savagery is the better choice for this reason: someone just came to the forums looking for ways to improve their damage. That should mean they are willing to learn new things to get the optimal damage, and therefore shouldn't use "one rotation is easier" as a crutch. It really doesn't take much practice to learn to keep SR up 100% of the time, and there are addons like Droodfocus that provide great displays for it.

Also to above posters, Shadowmeld does not allow a trigger of Glyph of Savage Roar. It does however proc Empowered Rake. This was done so that not all ferals would be required to play NE, as shadowmeld being a Glyph of Savage Roar on a 2min Cooldown would be insane.


To be fair the original post was about the OP not liking maintaining SR and asking if Savagery is a viable alternative. The answer is, yes, it's viable. Optimal? No. But then again ~4% difference is not one most of the community will notice that readily.
01/05/2015 02:56 AMPosted by Bradykin
Also to above posters, Shadowmeld does not allow a trigger of Glyph of Savage Roar. It does however proc Empowered Rake. This was done so that not all ferals would be required to play NE, as shadowmeld being a Glyph of Savage Roar on a 2min Cooldown would be insane.


I could've sworn its been refreshing SR.

edit: it does, just make sure you're hitting prowl in between shadowmeld and Rake.
Personally I use Glyph of Savagery because I hate having extra buttons in my rotation. My opinion: the less buttons the better.. Yes, SR lasts quite the time, but it's one more thing I have to keep up with in a fight, which may or may not allow me to optimize my DPS. Whereas, 30% at all times allows me to focus on just my damage rotation. Play the way that makes you feel more comfortable. The damage output you lose won't make a big enough difference if you enjoy your rotation.
Another vote here for glyph of Savagery...

Just did a LFR with it on butcher and was top DPS at Ivl 627ish. Just macro berserk and incarnation together with a agi potion and use right for the start gate and you will do fine. Not saying LFR is something that is necessary hard to top DPS wise but in other situations (pandora raids for fun with a few guildies, MC runs etc.) I consistently linger in the top three damage.

Also (and more importantly if you ask me) if you are more on the casual side like me, like doing old world content, and like PvP as well you will thank yourself that you don't even need to think about SR..just think of all those button pushes saved!

To all those "just learn the mechanic" or "don't take the easy way out" etc etc are just being elitist. What they really mean is they like the smugness of the extra pain and bother of keeping SR up in rotations because they think that somehow shows that they are "skilled"...
01/05/2015 02:52 PMPosted by Jernanner
01/05/2015 02:56 AMPosted by Bradykin
Also to above posters, Shadowmeld does not allow a trigger of Glyph of Savage Roar. It does however proc Empowered Rake. This was done so that not all ferals would be required to play NE, as shadowmeld being a Glyph of Savage Roar on a 2min Cooldown would be insane.


I could've sworn its been refreshing SR.

edit: it does, just make sure you're hitting prowl in between shadowmeld and Rake.


You can only prowl if you drop combat, and Shadowmeld doesn't always do that at least not in raid combat.

So wouldn't generally count on it for the SR refresh. However, pretty easy to get the Imp Rake effect from it 100% of the time.
01/05/2015 02:52 PMPosted by Jernanner
I could've sworn its been refreshing SR.

edit: it does, just make sure you're hitting prowl in between shadowmeld and Rake.


You can only get this affect on a dummy, as your target needs to also drop combat when you shadowmeld for this to work. This will not work in a raid environment.
01/06/2015 02:19 AMPosted by Bradykin
01/05/2015 02:52 PMPosted by Jernanner
I could've sworn its been refreshing SR.

edit: it does, just make sure you're hitting prowl in between shadowmeld and Rake.


You can only get this affect on a dummy, as your target needs to also drop combat when you shadowmeld for this to work. This will not work in a raid environment.


Thank god for that, otherwise it would be kinda mandatory to be a nelf druid if you're alliance, not to the mention unfair for other races

If you're a min/maxer that is
01/06/2015 06:10 AMPosted by Tarïel
01/06/2015 02:19 AMPosted by Bradykin
...

You can only get this affect on a dummy, as your target needs to also drop combat when you shadowmeld for this to work. This will not work in a raid environment.


Thank god for that, otherwise it would be kinda mandatory to be a nelf druid if you're alliance, not to the mention unfair for other races

If you're a min/maxer that is


Agreed, although on a mechanics level it would be really cool. Not remotely balanced though
01/05/2015 11:49 PMPosted by Wrayden


To all those "just learn the mechanic" or "don't take the easy way out" etc etc are just being elitist. What they really mean is they like the smugness of the extra pain and bother of keeping SR up in rotations because they think that somehow shows that they are "skilled"...


How can you classify advice that encourages a player to play to their maximum potential as being elitist? I they truly thought they were skilled simply for using Savage Roar, wouldn't they encourage new players to take Savagery, thus keeping a barrier between them?

I also noticed you took the time to twice point out you do top damage in your post bashing elitists.

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