Thrash nerf

Druid
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Thrash issues paled in comparison to Bear's movements issues, ranged aggro problems, absurdly bad level 100 talents, non-existent magic mitigation. Also Bear shields getting wrecked by a single point of damage, insufficient protection from Savage Defense RNG and rage issues at the start of an encounter.

In addition now Bears will have to tab Lacerate to try and keep threat, good luck with keeping Pulverize up.

And another epic design fail, if you get wrecked by bad RNG on your Savage Defense you can't use your backup tool Frenzied Regeneration because they BOTH require a metric ton of the exact same limited resource. Nice job Blizzard.
I love arielle trying to shed some light in this den of idiots
They should have just given Thrash a 25 rage cost.
01/14/2015 02:35 PMPosted by Ariellè
Has nothing to do with anything.

?? that would help out a lot making uptime on SD like 88% or more

01/14/2015 02:35 PMPosted by Ariellè
Anyone who ever used that glyph is an idiot. FR does exactly the job it's supposed to do. Stop using it at low Resolve.

Your wrong some fights that glyph was the best thing ever. i would love to have it now the way pally heals are going

01/14/2015 02:35 PMPosted by Ariellè
No? There is no evidence of this at all.

OMG really did you play in MOP. In mop we had so mush rage i could use SD, FR and maul all within 3sec or so. now i cant do that i need to wait on rage to get SD-up i cant use maul like i use to not ever close and using FR just feels like i'm wasting rage.

01/14/2015 02:35 PMPosted by Ariellè
Not relevant?


omg you want to help or not. warrior, monk, DK, pally all have more then one taunt just saying. i would like my aoe taunt back

i just think i like the idea of SD up time 88% with FR glyph on top of that and being able to use maul ever proc. but that's op and not going to happen >>>>again <<<<

so just make it more fun i guess.
did you really just ask if Arielle played in MoP?
01/14/2015 10:25 PMPosted by Shifthappend
I love arielle trying to shed some light in this den of idiots


If by den if idiots you are referring to the Blizzard design team I agree.

At least a dozen things are broken with Guardians and they fix the only one that is broken is Guardians favor.
01/12/2015 11:01 PMPosted by Ben
RIP thrash spam.
Guardians (all 8 of you), tell me about how much your raid enjoys the stats and versatility you bring.

PS
do CM golds tonight before nerf is live.

Yeah, they just destroyed the entire spec. It's kind of lame.

01/14/2015 10:25 PMPosted by Shifthappend
I love arielle trying to shed some light in this den of idiots


Arielle passes over the fact that our survivability and single target dps are trash compared to every other tank spec. It's fine to wish for balance changes in 6.1, but that doesn't change the fact that no self-respecting guild is going to bring a guardian druid to high end content as of today.


01/14/2015 02:35 PMPosted by Ariellè
Anyone who ever used that glyph is an idiot. FR does exactly the job it's supposed to do. Stop using it at low Resolve.

Your wrong some fights that glyph was the best thing ever. i would love to have it now the way pally heals are going


What fight, would you ever take that.... FR healed for more than 50% of your health with 60 rage back in mist. That Glyph was completely worthless and never worth taking. In WoD, it would still be worthless, SD and maul is worth more keeping up than increase in healing with Rage. FR still heals for a lot after a hard hit and you can easily recover from damage.

01/15/2015 02:38 AMPosted by Alicea
OMG really did you play in MOP. In mop we had so mush rage i could use SD, FR and maul all within 3sec or so. now i cant do that i need to wait on rage to get SD-up i cant use maul like i use to not ever close and using FR just feels like i'm wasting rage.


This is not mist anymore. Tanks were OP in mists, a good tank could carry bads, now not so much unless you are overgeared.
It's a different Expansion and a different model of tanking and healing.
Also at the start of mist! ya did you play then. Rage was not plentiful, you had to actually time your rage with some ability's like now. Everyone just remembers the end of expansions.

01/15/2015 09:35 AMPosted by Teddabear
At least a dozen things are broken with Guardians and they fix the only one that is broken is Guardians favor.

Really sad that other are arguing that Thrash was a niche or in favor. It should never have been, tanks should not do more than dps and your choose of tank should not be how much they do on a AE fight.
01/15/2015 12:02 PMPosted by Maimshot
Arielle passes over the fact that our survivability and single target dps are trash compared to every other tank spec. It's fine to wish for balance changes in 6.1, but that doesn't change the fact that no self-respecting guild is going to bring a guardian druid to high end content as of today.


He knows we needs a dps buff even stats it, but there are guardians that down mythic, so survivability is allowing them to down the bosses. Blizz doesn't need to rush in with hot fixing if bears are still downing the content, just cause you feel like you can not. Also any real self-respecting guild wouldn't be reading most of the things posted on these forums and take them as fact.
This feels like every expansion ever since Cataclysm (if not Wrath, but I didn't have tank experience in the beginning) where Bears aren't as strong in the beginning of the expansion (but are quite strong at the mid/end) and OMG IT'S THE WORST THING EVER BLIZZ Y U DO DIS ARKDFJLDKSHGDF GODFIJ

...

Relax, guys. Bears aren't going anywhere and it isn't the end of the line for us. Never has been throughout all the years of "OMFG WE SUCK" and never will be
01/15/2015 12:19 PMPosted by Onine
He knows we needs a dps buff even stats it, but there are guardians that down mythic, so survivability is allowing them to down the bosses. Blizz doesn't need to rush in with hot fixing if bears are still downing the content, just cause you feel like you can not.


All the tanks have been downing the content, but other tanks get buffs and Bears - who are on the bottom - don't. Why are hotfixes for other tanks justified, but not for bears?
01/15/2015 12:59 PMPosted by Tewa
01/15/2015 12:19 PMPosted by Onine
He knows we needs a dps buff even stats it, but there are guardians that down mythic, so survivability is allowing them to down the bosses. Blizz doesn't need to rush in with hot fixing if bears are still downing the content, just cause you feel like you can not.


All the tanks have been downing the content, but other tanks get buffs and Bears - who are on the bottom - don't. Why are hotfixes for other tanks justified, but not for bears?


Damage hotfixes or "nerfs" like the bug with pally. I am not sure where you are seeing survival buffs in hot fixes. I only double checked to the beginning of December.
We got one.... ONE Damage nerf, so that AoE was not OP, also helped with making feral go guardian just for the damage.

Edit: I am not saying we do not need a ST buff. We do, but be patient, Blizzard probably has to figure out what they want to buff, have to sort out all the bears that just spammed thrash damage vs bears that knew better to survival somethings. Which was a dps difference. Or even that they have other tanks to high. Who knows.
Idk if that makes a difference but I would say thats a semi good conclusion. Or just better to think about that while you wait. lol
I believe he is referring to the haste change and the increase haste for paladins. I presume they increased the benefits of haste so that their attunement is more useful. I guess he missed the nerfs to paladins to keep their damage under control, and the changes that are happening to Seraphim.
01/15/2015 02:04 PMPosted by Onine
01/15/2015 12:59 PMPosted by Tewa
...

All the tanks have been downing the content, but other tanks get buffs and Bears - who are on the bottom - don't. Why are hotfixes for other tanks justified, but not for bears?


Damage hotfixes or "nerfs" like the bug with pally. I am not sure where you are seeing survival buffs in hot fixes. I only double checked to the beginning of December.
We got one.... ONE Damage nerf, so that AoE was not OP, also helped with making feral go guardian just for the damage.

Edit: I am not saying we do not need a ST buff. We do, but be patient, Blizzard probably has to figure out what they want to buff, have to sort out all the bears that just spammed thrash damage vs bears that knew better to survival somethings. Which was a dps difference. Or even that they have other tanks to high. Who knows.
Idk if that makes a difference but I would say thats a semi good conclusion. Or just better to think about that while you wait. lol


Doesn't look like much thinking here. Looks more like hey lets buff everything by a huge amounts and see how that turns out.

Warrior (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)

General
Thunder Clap’s damage has been increased by 40%.

Protection
Deep Wounds’ damage has been increased by 40%.
Devastate’s damage has been increased by 20%.
Revenge’s damage has been increased by 40%.
Shield Slam’s damage has been increased by 20%.

Now Warriors who's toolkit is a Porsche Turbo compared to Guardian's Kia Rio are doing more damage than Bears ever did.

As far as Mythic goes the #1 Bear tank in the world since forever rerolled Warrior because Bears are not viable for progression.

So why are Bears waiting when every other class is getting buffed?
01/15/2015 12:19 PMPosted by Onine
01/15/2015 12:02 PMPosted by Maimshot
Arielle passes over the fact that our survivability and single target dps are trash compared to every other tank spec. It's fine to wish for balance changes in 6.1, but that doesn't change the fact that no self-respecting guild is going to bring a guardian druid to high end content as of today.


He knows we needs a dps buff even stats it, but there are guardians that down mythic, so survivability is allowing them to down the bosses. Blizz doesn't need to rush in with hot fixing if bears are still downing the content, just cause you feel like you can not. Also any real self-respecting guild wouldn't be reading most of the things posted on these forums and take them as fact.

No one said Bears can't down content. The complaint is every other tank can down content better. Thrash spam was OP, but it came with a cost to Pulverize up-time. Seems to me that should be the model...you want to do crazy DPS as a tank? It will make you lose mitigation. Makes for easy downing of irrelevant content (read farm), which even the worst DPS players probably wouldn't complain about, and lowers their DPS for progression so DPS can flex their e-peen without feeling the need to cry on the forums about tank DPS.
01/14/2015 03:25 PMPosted by Ahanss
For the most part, we should assume warriors are where tanks should be in terms of DPS. Prot/Glad warriors are the most directly comparable tank/dps specs for obvious reasons, so if glad is doing ok as a DPS, then prot should be doing ok as a tank. If they want a certain DPS difference between tank and DPS, we really hope they can at least get those two specs right.

So either blizz failed at math and made prot overperform compared to glad, or prot is where it should be and bear (and blood) are underperforming in comparison. Neither is really comforting for right now, but the difference should be obvious enough that the hotfixes for jan 14, 15, or 16 do something. If not, time for some major complaining.


It is now the 17th.
It buggles my mind that the few guardians there are left, are actually okay with this. You have the WORST tanking toolkit by far and the 1 niche that you guys had is now gone. They can nerf the AoE into the ground and make it reasonable, but why would anyone want to bring a bear druid over any other tanking class right now?
01/14/2015 02:35 PMPosted by Ariellè
01/13/2015 01:20 PMPosted by Korneli
So after the thrash nerf... I was running LFR, I am a 668 guardian tank, a 640 mage almost pulled threat off of me, how am I supposed to be tanking mythic if I cant hold threat off of the other raiders? also, besides AoE dps, guardian is the lowest dps tank class, why nerf the one thing we're good at...?

This is you being bad. The mage would literally have to do 9.1 (or 6.5, I forget what the base threat mod is nowadays) times your DPS to pull threat, which is impossible.

01/13/2015 10:15 PMPosted by Pepperbear
Ah...thank you. So I wasn't imagining things. Couldn't hold adds off my warrior co-tank during tectus or imperator tonight. My DPS dropped by quite a bit, and his was near top. Didn't seem fair, really. :(
Warriors got a massive (by all accounts too large) of an AoE DPS buff. Thrash is doing around the right amount of damage it should be doing relative to the AoE of actual DPS specs. If another tank is wildly off that's a problem with them. Not us.

01/14/2015 12:04 AMPosted by Alicea
1. we take in way too much damage

But we have a lot more self-healing to balance that out. However a lot of our talents are completely unbalanced right now which makes things worse. Once the balance pass is done in 6.1 it'll be a lot better.

01/14/2015 12:04 AMPosted by Alicea
2. single target damage sucks

Because other specs got huge buffs. Guardians will be adjusted to the same level sooner or later. Preferably sooner.

01/14/2015 12:04 AMPosted by Alicea
3. SD up-time sucks with a 12sec recharge time (want 6sec back)

Has nothing to do with anything.

01/14/2015 12:04 AMPosted by Alicea
4. Frenzied Regeneration sucks (want the Glyph back)

Anyone who ever used that glyph is an idiot. FR does exactly the job it's supposed to do. Stop using it at low Resolve.

01/14/2015 12:04 AMPosted by Alicea
1. more Rage>>> since crit sucks now we don't have a good way to get rage. Back in mop i used [incarnation son of ursoc] but now i have to use [soul of the forest] for the rage.
No? There is no evidence of this at all.

01/14/2015 12:04 AMPosted by Alicea
2. reforge... i don't think we need it but it would be nice if they made gear for tanks with the right stats.
Or alternatively, more options per slot. Which is coming in BRF. Stop acting like Highmaul is an actual raid tier.

01/14/2015 12:04 AMPosted by Alicea
3. better taunt we do not have an aoe taunt tabing gets old

Not relevant?

The nerf to Thrash was entirely justified. Other specs likely have to be brought in line in terms of AoE. However our ST damage needs to be buffed to keep pace with the buffs other specs received.

/shrug


Dude you are lost. You have an under-represented specialization and when a figure head of the community such as yourself fails to stand up and fight for change, and instead takes a passive approach - YOU ARE HURTING THE SPEC.

Did this nerf need to happen? - Yes 100%

But seriously, the fact that you are still waiting on a tuning balance in 6.1 is !@#$ing disillusional. Shamans, who were very obviously on the %^-* end at the start of the xpac fought hard to get the balancing they got, while this community has just sat in silence and waited.

Bears wont get fixed in 6.1 in this rate - it honestly seems more like they are TRYING to push players into other roles/classes so they can drop back down to 3 specs.

Wake up Druid community.
Not liking the thrash nerf much, tonight on imperator I couldnt get the snap threat on the mobs over pally spam conc that never happens.

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