Why didnt Blizzard remove Savage Roar in WoD?

Druid
One thing that I have been thinking about this morning is the class design of feral druids. WoD saw the introduction of Cut to the Chase for Rogues and the elimination of Inquisition for Paladins. Assassination Rogues get slice and dice passively at lvl 92+. Combat and Subtlety Rogues essentially have to get one Slice and Dice up and keep it running the entire fight by just using spells which are baked into their rotation. But why do feral druids still have to deal with an ability that massively gimps their damage if it falls off while also being trivial to apply? Over the course of a 10 minute fight I'd only have to cast it around 9-10 times because glyph of savage roar and incarnation gives me a free roar that lasts for 85 seconds every 3 minutes (from beginning to the end).

My question is, what is the logic behind this class design? It doesn't make the spec any more fun and if anything is mildly annoying. Why not just buff our damage by 40% and be done with it? Why did they do this with Ret pallies and essentially Rogues but not feral druids?
01/05/2015 09:40 AMPosted by Grizzlebeer
It doesn't make the spec any more fun and if anything is mildly annoying.


I happen to agree with you, but not every player does. Some people think the class is too easy as it is. I think the designers feel like they've done a good job of balancing if everyone is kind of unhappy for some reason or another.
Because Ferals don't want it. There's a lot of hatred of the already "simplified" rotation already. If they just completely removed it you'd get a large backlash from a large chunk of the feral community.

Plus you already have an option to not use it. Savagery.
01/05/2015 09:53 AMPosted by Feathring
Because Ferals don't want it. There's a lot of hatred of the already "simplified" rotation already. If they just completely removed it you'd get a large backlash from a large chunk of the feral community.

Plus you already have an option to not use it. Savagery.


Exactly. Feral doesn't need to be rip bite bite bite rip bite bite bite. That's boring. By keeping SR in the rotation it makes ferals actually have to think about their moves still rather than just mashing damage and keeping feral closer to what it's been for years.

If you want to just mash filler and finisher play a rogue, specifically assassination. It's just as slow and SnD is passive for them.
I think maintaining SR is bit ridiculous. They should make it so that FB refreshes it or something. That or make it so that it doesnt increase damage so much and bake the damage into the abilities. Maintaining SR is just an archaic form of play and Im not sure why people defend it so much.

I think Blizz was right with wanting to get rid of Bloodtalons as well, but thats a different argument.
Blizzard intentionally gave us bloodtalons and told us we'd use it and we'd like it. I don't see that going anywhere either.
01/05/2015 10:18 AMPosted by Krayik
Feral doesn't need to be rip bite bite bite rip bite bite bite. That's boring.


This. Feral is interesting in it's current form, remove SR and it just gets horribly dull. Those who dislike it would honestly probably be happier playing another spec (I'm not saying that as belittlement, just that it is reminiscent of a style that most specs don't have anymore, therefore another spec would probably be more to the liking of people who have a problem with SR).
01/05/2015 11:17 AMPosted by Krayik
Blizzard intentionally gave us bloodtalons and told us we'd use it and we'd like it. I don't see that going anywhere either.


From what I remember people complained about losing Blood Talons type of game play as making the spec too easy. So, then Blizz just took or old 90 talent and made it a 90/100 talent. Woo!

01/05/2015 11:26 AMPosted by Bradykin
just that it is reminiscent of a style that most specs don't have anymore, therefore another spec would probably be more to the liking of people who have a problem with SR


Thats because its an archaic spell that does really nothing to make the game play better/harder. Look at all of the other classes, they lost stupid things like SR because it makes no sense to have to maintain this kind of buff. That or they made it so that its refreshed in a better way.

I cant see how anyone thinks maintaining the SR buff as being fun or complex or anything like that. Im not saying its hard either, Im saying its an old dumb kind of thing to maintain.
i hate savage roar to the point that it made me not want to play this class at all.

at low levels though i just glyph savagery, and its a done deal. i feel like as long as you are not doing progression raiding or rated pvp the glyph is perfectly ok.

this works for me since i will never raid or do rated pvp on my feral
I'm more annoyed with getting popped out of stealth before being able to start the fight and having to put it up manually. Change it to getting knocked out of stealth gives it too, maybe? Ugh.
01/05/2015 11:51 AMPosted by Baz
01/05/2015 11:17 AMPosted by Krayik
Blizzard intentionally gave us bloodtalons and told us we'd use it and we'd like it. I don't see that going anywhere either.


From what I remember people complained about losing Blood Talons type of game play as making the spec too easy. So, then Blizz just took or old 90 talent and made it a 90/100 talent. Woo!

01/05/2015 11:26 AMPosted by Bradykin
just that it is reminiscent of a style that most specs don't have anymore, therefore another spec would probably be more to the liking of people who have a problem with SR


Thats because its an archaic spell that does really nothing to make the game play better/harder. Look at all of the other classes, they lost stupid things like SR because it makes no sense to have to maintain this kind of buff. That or they made it so that its refreshed in a better way.

I cant see how anyone thinks maintaining the SR buff as being fun or complex or anything like that. Im not saying its hard either, Im saying its an old dumb kind of thing to maintain.


I, and many other ferals like aspect of the class. That's what I meant: Feral is probably the oldest playstyle of all of the specs: we have the passive buff many people lost, don't use all of our GCDs, and don't have the obligatory 8-12 second cooldown that every other class mashes. A lot of people like the feral style, and therefore it is a good fit for them. A lot of people also don't like it, and therefore probably shouldn't play feral.
01/05/2015 11:57 AMPosted by Bradykin
I, and many other ferals like aspect of the class.


I and many other Ferals dont...
Let's look at the finishers that feral has. Maim, Rip, FB, SR. Now let's remove SR. We are left with a stun, a DoT and a nuke. I will just call it a nuke in this because "point blank immediate damage" is too long.Now when would these three be used?

The stun is essentially not ever used in pve. The only occasion I can think of using this is on something like Galakras where a mob would Fracture an NPC and it needed to be stunned or knocked back, in which case you would more often than not use Typhoon or Mighty Bash as they would not consume DPS resources and would be available if you had no combo points. And this was before combo points were stored on you, not the target.

Rip is the dot. The bleed. The thing that makes feral feral. Bleeding your opponents to death is what called many a player, including myself, to the wild ways of the kitty. This was and to my knowledge, still a major part of our damage, at least in pve. I have not played feral pvp in wod, but I don't think it is used as much, simply because FB does more spike damage, landing kills easier.

Now FB. Like I said before, the nuke. The heavy hitting finisher as it is right now. I rarely used this as I wouldnt be able to slot it in at the risk of letting Rip or SR fall off.

Now SR. Essentially Slice and Dice and Inquisition. To me, it actually fits feral very well. Feral is the slower spec that has you juggling all these spinning plates, having to manage and multitask. That complexity is, again, something that others, including myself, enjoy tremendously. Others do not.

Take SR away and you lose a finisher. In the case of SR you lose complexity and depth.

Now we come back to this argument of if it should or should not be removed. The arguments for it's removal are usually along the lines of it being annoying, clunky and not fun to use, which I can definitely see. However, and this is a massive, massive however...just because you may not like something, doesn't mean it should change. Granted just because you like something doesn't mean it should stay, but changing what a spec is about, in the case of feral it is micro management, and taking away an aspect of that, is what I would say is damaging the spec. I don't really like the Rune system for Death Knights, but I like the feel of the class, and removing that aspect of the class which is a core feature in both gameplay and flavour, isn't something that is either needed or going to improve Death Knights.

All in all, I strongly believe that all classes and their specs should have an identity and to have soemthing that sets them apart from ones that are similar. For the energy using, combo point generating brothers that all play similar at the core, but it is things like Savage Roar, Tiger Palm and Slice and Dice that, again, are similar but function in slightly different ways that set them apart and grant style to each user.
There are many reasons it is in the game.

1 - it is the only finisher we can use to proc Pred Swiftness at range
2 - it has a glyph for bads that dont want it
3 - it is our only finisher that isn't seriously gimped by using it at less than 5cp
4 - we are not rogues
01/05/2015 12:07 PMPosted by Baz
01/05/2015 11:57 AMPosted by Bradykin
I, and many other ferals like aspect of the class.


I and many other Ferals dont...


Then there are other options for you to play. They're going to piss off one group or the other. But the group that doesn't like it has other classes that offer a playstyle like you're wanting. If you remove it those that like it have no other class they can switch to that has a mechanic like that.
It's still there still because removing it seriously makes it Rip, Bite, Bite, Bite, Bite, Bite.... oh Rip!, Bite...

If you think that's interesting gameplay or you're incapable of keeping SR up, then there's a glyph just for you.
01/05/2015 01:04 PMPosted by Firelèáf
1 - it is the only finisher we can use to proc Pred Swiftness at range


Out of the reasons you listed its the only valid point. Its not hard to use,It doesnt make things hard or complex, just annoying. Its a QoL issue that pretty much every class that had such a thing got rid of. Blizz was planning on removing SR but some in the Feral community asked for it not to be removed, that is where the glyph came into play.

01/05/2015 01:08 PMPosted by Feathring
Then there are other options for you to play. They're going to piss off one group or the other. But the group that doesn't like it has other classes that offer a playstyle like you're wanting. If you remove it those that like it have no other class they can switch to that has a mechanic like that.


Probably the worst argument yet.
01/05/2015 01:50 PMPosted by Baz
Out of the reasons you listed its the only valid point.
I dont know ... I thought reason 2 was a close contender.
01/05/2015 01:50 PMPosted by Baz
Its not hard to use,It doesnt make things hard or complex, just annoying.


Rake doesn't make playing feral hard or complex. Should get rid of that while we are at it.
I don't get it.

By keeping SR in the rotation it makes it Rip Bite bite bite SR rip bite bite bite SR.

Is it really that much more complex, adding one tiny button in there?

Is it really that much more complex watching one timer? Most people who will also have an addon that clearly identifies for them when it runs out?

Not really. What it is, is just plain annoying.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum