I Can Fix Arena

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Logged in just to rate up op for making me realize the problem I'm struggling with. This season I've tried helping low exp players get better to the limit of my patience, trying to spawn a good PHP, climb rating and then find a better group of people.

It almost never works. LFG people in general are impatient and mostly just looking to finish their weekly cap. By the time you start winning, you tanked too much rating and back to baby steps again.

What OP said is the root cause for the arena exodus this game is experimenting. You add in imbalance, non responsive dev team, major in-season frustrated rebalancing tries and we can see the future is going to be grim.

A big something needs to be made. My idea is releasing a separate Warcraft themed game called, let's say Gladiators of Azeroth. Something like Hearthstone - your guy sits in a comfy room displaying all the trophies, armor sets and cool weaponry he got and you have the options to play constructed, solo queue, skirmish and whatever else be needed, in the click of a button. Hell, Blizzard could reuse SO MANY assets from WoW to make that side project. Also, with a separate arena game the balancing PvE/PvP hell would be gone, FOREVER.

Everyone knows how big of a success Hearthstone was, mostly due to its huge yet simple offer to both casual and competitive play. Some could argue it's a leap of faith extending it to WoW, but you can just read OP's ideas on how to make the single player experience more rewarding.

We had so many awesome ideas to save Arena from its undeniable crappy state. I wish Blizzard gave a damn about these highly rated threads.
The most fun I had in this game was playing 3s with 2 other of my mates. When one of them quit for dota it left the 2 of us constantly searching for the 3rd, rotating through countless people. That was fine for a while but it was all too much effort after a while. I'm so sick of asking exp? cr? - would be great if the 2 of us could just 'solo' queue into 3s and get a 3rd guy with similar MMR.

As a technical note i think it would be better if there was a single ladder system for solo queueing and regular arenas to keep the queue pops fast. but this would definitely require in-built comms like cs go or something.
03/16/2015 04:04 PMPosted by Wiw
Good post, OP. I agree with 90% of what you're saying but...

More people playing =/= balance.

No, but more people playing means more development efforts going towards improving something.

If 40% of the WoW playerbase was saying, "Our number 1 complaint is that we want to see more constant small incremental PvP balance patches." You'd better believe Blizzard would devote a lot more time to insuring that everyone's PvP experiences were better.
100% right. As a vet who just came back after 7 years break I can say it's really hard and intimidating to get into anything rated. I had never thought of it but I'm sort of mind blown by how no one at blizzard even thought of this when games like LoL have been doing it for years. WoW is a much, much better game than LoL is.
02/28/2015 11:12 PMPosted by Brightsword
population is attracted to whatever the lowest path of resistance is for rewards

I read the OP's whole post but the truth is much of that won't boost participation in WoW AT ALL. The simple reason is the quote above.
PvE offers a far less resisting path of game play. In TBC getting a decent almost BiS weapon in PvE was very challenging so most players ended up doing PvP just to get weapon because it was the path of least resistance.

Unless the barriers in PvE and PvP are even THEN can things like solo queues be effective. As it stand even if solo queues were implemented right now only the same small pool of players will end up sticking to do. The existing barriers will wall off any new players who try it, from continuing with it.

Some of the barriers that cause resistance in PvP:
Class imbalance - There are 100s of posts on this
Gear imbalance - Everyone has BiS PvP gear just by staying subed for longer. Entry blues don't cut it and any better would make entry PvP gear welfare gear. The problem is the ilvls. In TBC and Wrath you could win matches in previous season gear with only slightly more effort.
Lack of meaningful progression - Gut 5s and Ashran, focus on what most enjoy i.e. 1v1 2v2 and 3v3 sure this requires class balance. Even rBGs are done mostly by players who don't like it but want faster points or some PvP action, very few of rBGs are done by players who truely want to be there.
Lack of meaningful rewards - Even the few meaningful rewards were gutted from 2s the most popular bracket
Lack of entry level - You start a duel or arena or BG, there is no entry league just one ladder. You can end up in a BG which comes down to 1v1 to cap/defend a node vs a player far more experienced than you. This will never happen in PvE as there are different difficulties they pick what they are prepared for.
LOL the OP. this guys only been 2200 every expansion. WOD hes 2700 yeah im sure participation is the issue with pvp lmao
03/27/2015 12:51 PMPosted by Thorzak
100% right. As a vet who just came back after 7 years break I can say it's really hard and intimidating to get into anything rated. I had never thought of it but I'm sort of mind blown by how no one at blizzard even thought of this when games like LoL have been doing it for years. WoW is a much, much better game than LoL is.
how is it a much better game? LoL pvp is way way way way better designed than wow pvp..
Bumping because it was a great post. Finding competent partners is literally my #1 issue in arena.
Just make a 1v1 arena. That, alone, would boost arena participation tenfold.

To address balance, make a class specific ladder rating; for instance, instead of seeing how you compare to all players and every class (because balancing all classes around 1v1 would be near impossible), just let me see how I compare to only other Retribution Paladins who queue into 1v1(or whatever class/spec it is that you are); design it so that even if you lose a 1v1 to a class stronger than yours, you could move up or down the ladder depending on your performance against that particular class (if that's even possible). I suspect that if you could still move up the ladder despite losing a 1v1 arena match against a specific class that is just straight up better than yours because you did particularly well in the match, people may complain less about individual class balance (I'm sure complaining would still be around though).

But yea, good post, you hit the nail on the head for the most part. I'm a casual pvper and can never find decent arena partners. I think I could probably play to 2k+, maybe higher, but having to play with random people all the time of varying skill levels makes it difficult for me to go anywhere on the ladder. I would definitely like to see a solo queue.

Blizzard! Listen to this guy! I love your game. Something like the OP is talking about would make me love it that much more.
02/28/2015 05:21 PMPosted by Wutangrza
The nature of WoW is such that it may be too complex to ever be able to convey the same amount of useful information with just a handful of pings/target markers, but perhaps this is a good excuse to make an integrated voice client that isn't terrible.

An integrated voice chat client would be helpful in many other parts of the game.

In dungeons/LFRs, you could explain boss fights more easily and call things out as they happen.

In random bgs, you could call out incomings when you're guarding a node.

In rated bgs, your IP address wouldn't get exposed to other players, so you wouldn't have to worry about future DDOSes.

I'm guessing Blizzard doesn't want to deal with the additional infrastructure required for millions of players on voice chat. Or maybe the licensing fee for a decent 3rd-party voice chat program would be huge. Or maybe they're worried about all the trolling/harassment that might occur if people could hear other players' voices.
This solo queue idea sounds perfect. Good thinkin'!
Blizzard already implemented a voice chat in-game. It was terrible and I believe it is still there.
Bottom line is it's impossible to balance PVE, 2v2, 3v3, 5v5, RBGs, regular BGs, outdoor PVP and duels within the same game.

LoL is always PvP and (usually, as far as I know) 5v5. That's pretty much one facet of the game to balance. It's not about the number of classes, it's about the kinds game-play to balance equally and it's impossible to that in the World of Warcraft.

If WoW 3v3 arena was a separate game entirely, then we can talk, and then it could definitely become a bigger eSport.

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