Why can't I roll on gear I'm entitled to?

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03/05/2015 09:05 PMPosted by Attux
t would work exactly the same now. Except instead of Int/Agi on mail gear, you would see Int/Spirit/Agi. Switches with spec. Cloth? Int/Spirit. They don't have to make new gear.


Spirit is not a primary stat, that suggestion is the most idiotic thing and ignores completely how secondary stats work vs primary stats.

They could simply add throughput to Spirit, the way Bonus Armor double dips for tanks (passive mitigation of armor + Attack power like Strength/Agility which results in stronger mitigation abilities).

Spirit could simply grant Spell Power in the same ratio Intellect does.
03/06/2015 04:15 AMPosted by Berith
Spirit is not a primary stat


This
03/06/2015 04:15 AMPosted by Berith
03/05/2015 09:05 PMPosted by Attux
t would work exactly the same now. Except instead of Int/Agi on mail gear, you would see Int/Spirit/Agi. Switches with spec. Cloth? Int/Spirit. They don't have to make new gear.


Spirit is not a primary stat, that suggestion is the most idiotic thing and ignores completely how secondary stats work vs primary stats.

They could simply add throughput to Spirit, the way Bonus Armor double dips for tanks (passive mitigation of armor + Attack power like Strength/Agility which results in stronger mitigation abilities).

Spirit could simply grant Spell Power in the same ratio Intellect does.
There is nothing idiotic about turning a useless stat into a useful one. Spirit can easily be a primary stat. It doesn't take magic to do so. Ion Hozzikostas already mentioned considering making spirit a throughput stat in the feb 27th interview.

But hey. Stay small and keep the insults coming. Primary and secondary stats are something created by Blizzard. There it's no law making spirit stay secondary. But tell me, hyperbole aide, what problems arise from turning spirit into a primary?
So with the recent changes to gear classification that were brought about with 6.1, I--along with every other healer in the game--have found that I can no longer bonus roll, or receive from a follower raid mission cache, certain trinkets. These certain trinkets are those that do not have spirit, and I understand how some could say they're meant for DPS only, but that's for a loot master to decide when doling out loot . My ability to bonus roll these trinkets shouldn't be impeded because DPS complain about healers taking trinkets from them when in reality the loot drops for everyone eligible.
Take for example the Blackiron Micro Crucible, it is itemized perfectly for almost every caster, and before 6.1 I wholly accepted the fact that I was probably going to win one from a bonus roll or a cache. Now however, I have no chance to get one out of a extra roll, when every caster DPS that would like one can easily do so. Resto Druids, Healing Priests, and Resto Shamans can all get around this stupidity by setting their loot specialization to their respective caster ones, but I'm stuck; Windwalker and Brewmaster obviously can't roll that trinket either (Holy Pallies are in the same boat).
I just ask that healers have bonus access to all caster trinkets again.


Please go watch this seasons house of cards I believe it was episode 3. Frank Underwood gives a great speech on entitlement. Now too bad he is a TV character...
03/06/2015 07:16 AMPosted by Vainlit
03/06/2015 04:15 AMPosted by Berith
Spirit is not a primary stat


This
Means nothing. Things can be changed.
03/05/2015 10:36 PMPosted by Oregano
03/05/2015 10:23 PMPosted by Attux
Make spirit a throughput and regen stat for healers.


They did something like that during wrath with int. It made a larger mana pool, plus was a throughput stat. This ended up difficult to balance-so we ended up with unlimited mana. They are trying to keep spirit relative this xpac. Currently druids are probably the only ones who care about it on all fights, whereas for most of the other healers it's useful but to a smaller extent. A change like you are proposing would most likely make all healers treat spirit like they do int-just a different name-so the same problems would be likely to occur as they did in wrath.


03/05/2015 10:36 PMPosted by Oregano
03/05/2015 10:23 PMPosted by Attux
Make spirit a throughput and regen stat for healers.


They did something like that during wrath with int. It made a larger mana pool, plus was a throughput stat. This ended up difficult to balance-so we ended up with unlimited mana. They are trying to keep spirit relative this xpac. Currently druids are probably the only ones who care about it on all fights, whereas for most of the other healers it's useful but to a smaller extent. A change like you are proposing would most likely make all healers treat spirit like they do int-just a different name-so the same problems would be likely to occur as they did in wrath.
The same problem won't occur as I wrath. Int in wrath adjusted mana pool and gave some crit. It did not have an affect on an abilities power like int does today. Int in wrath did not boost spellpower. All heal and dps pieces had spellpower on them.

All this change would do is give healers specific non armor items. Which is good for heals and int dps. There is no downside. Balance would be no more a problem than it is now.
03/05/2015 08:40 AMPosted by Frostednugs
I get it, the healer trinkets suck for you, but that's just too bad.


Nice attitude you have there.

You say you play a healer, a holy priest? This means you can set your personal loot rolls to dps caster to get the trinkets you want. The monk is not wanting to roll against you for 'your' trinkets, he wants to be able to get them on his personal rolls. How in God's name does this bother you? He cannot set his loot table to caster dps as no such thing exists. Either learn to read or understand that you are supremely selfish when it comes to something that can have no possible effect on you!!
You know what would be a great solution to this whole problem? Have spirit give a benfifical bonus to healers other than mana regeneration. Bonus armor gives extra AP tanks, why can't spirit give extra spell power/other stats to healers?
03/06/2015 09:55 AMPosted by Celestinn
03/05/2015 08:40 AMPosted by Frostednugs
I get it, the healer trinkets suck for you, but that's just too bad.


Nice attitude you have there.

You say you play a healer, a holy priest? This means you can set your personal loot rolls to dps caster to get the trinkets you want. The monk is not wanting to roll against you for 'your' trinkets, he wants to be able to get them on his personal rolls. How in God's name does this bother you? He cannot set his loot table to caster dps as no such thing exists. Either learn to read or understand that you are supremely selfish when it comes to something that can have no possible effect on you!!


Read the post again.
I play MISTWEAVER MONK as well as a shadow/holy priest, so you couldn't be more wrong when you say "it's something that can have no possible effect on you" it has every possible effect on me, but I understand how loot tables work so I'm not whining that I can't roll on another classes loot table. If it was for me it would be on my table. It's not.
03/06/2015 10:03 AMPosted by Natheirean
You know what would be a great solution to this whole problem? Have spirit give a benfifical bonus to healers other than mana regeneration. Bonus armor gives extra AP tanks, why can't spirit give extra spell power/other stats to healers?

It's all we want in life T-T...something to make Spirit more appealing.

As it is, I still want that trinket off Oregorger, dat Int & Crit Proc...so yummy.
03/06/2015 04:15 AMPosted by Berith
03/05/2015 09:05 PMPosted by Attux
t would work exactly the same now. Except instead of Int/Agi on mail gear, you would see Int/Spirit/Agi. Switches with spec. Cloth? Int/Spirit. They don't have to make new gear.


Spirit is not a primary stat, that suggestion is the most idiotic thing and ignores completely how secondary stats work vs primary stats.

They could simply add throughput to Spirit, the way Bonus Armor double dips for tanks (passive mitigation of armor + Attack power like Strength/Agility which results in stronger mitigation abilities).

Spirit could simply grant Spell Power in the same ratio Intellect does.


This is probably the best suggestion.

Until then, give us our damn trinkets back for personal rolls.

It's not hurting anyone. Period. Arguing against it on some deluded principle is asinine.
03/06/2015 10:03 AMPosted by Frostednugs
Read the post again.
I play MISTWEAVER MONK as well as a shadow/holy priest, so you couldn't be more wrong when you say "it's something that can have no possible effect on you" it has every possible effect on me, but I understand how loot tables work so I'm not whining that I can't roll on another classes loot table. If it was for me it would be on my table. It's not.


No but you're arguing against something for no other reason than to argue.

Caster DPS has had to contend with healers for trinkets forever and you're just now trying to justify taking suboptimal gear based on some kind of deluded principle because your healers are alts?

Listen nugs, I've mained a healer since BC. I know what stats I want and which stats I don't want, and I know when I don't want other stats as well.

There has *never* been a time frame in which stacking Spirit out the wazoo under all circumstances has been ideal for *every* healer. Ever.

In fact, Paladins have never really wanted a boatload of spirit. Monks have never really wanted a boatload of spirit.

On top of it, static mana regen is *boring*.
03/04/2015 10:31 PMPosted by Alexzanderzx
ok healer monks are in the unique situation that you cant get these dps trikets

they need a 4th spec ranged dps int like boomy

DO IT BLIZZ


And then they could also make a shockadin ranged dps spec for Paladins and this would fix everything.
03/06/2015 10:03 AMPosted by Frostednugs
"it's something that can have no possible effect on you" it has every possible effect on me,


Let me say this slowly, because clearly it takes a little while for your mind to catch up with what it is I'm trying to explain to you.... It has NO effect on you if it's on his PERSONAL loot table. Get it? Stubborn stupidity makes me so mad...
03/06/2015 03:23 AMPosted by Vainlit
03/05/2015 06:43 PMPosted by Frostednugs
No because as raid lead I will not allow healers to roll on DPS trinkets unless the roll goes to Off-spec.

Because I'm not an idiot and I realize that there are healer-specific trinkets and healer get MS roll on those. So DPS get MS roll on DPS trinkets fullstop.


That is pretty asinine of you not to let a player roll MS on a BiS trinket because of some arbitrary division in role. It is STILL BiS to that healer. I doubt you would be so stringent in your divisions if there was a healer trinket that were BiS for caster DPS.


BIS pieces should almost always go to DPS before healers . They truly need those pieces more, and it is better for the raid group as a whole.
03/06/2015 10:03 AMPosted by Natheirean
You know what would be a great solution to this whole problem? Have spirit give a benfifical bonus to healers other than mana regeneration. Bonus armor gives extra AP tanks, why can't spirit give extra spell power/other stats to healers?


I believe it is because they want there to be a trade-off. You choose Spirit for extra regen. You can pick up throughput stats, but you lose out on regen.

The issue is they haven't balanced every class to value Spirit equally.
Both Spirit and Bonus Armor are intended to help restrict the number of people in a given raid who may be interested in a particular item. The OP makes a perfect argument as to why we want that distinction: he wanted the Blackiron Micro Crucible, but had resigned himself to only really having a shot at it from a bonus roll or a cache as there were so many others in his raid group who wanted it too. That's a crappy situation.

Bonus Armor is currently working well for creating that distinction. DPS specializations don't get anything from it, but it's far and away the best stat for tanks -- so much so that tanks will nearly always prefer an item that grants Bonus Armor over an item that doesn't, even if the item with no Bonus Armor is much higher in item level.

Prior to 6.1, we were getting a ton of feedback from tanks who were extremely disappointed to receive trinkets, rings, etc. with no Bonus Armor through their bonus rolls. It felt like a waste of a seal or cache to get something that your loot spec would realistically never equip. Plus, it's a bit of a false lead for inexperienced players; if Blizzard gave me a higher item level crit/multistrike amulet via bonus rolls, it must be an upgrade, right?

We got similar feedback from many healers, which caused us to take a look at how Spirit was functioning. Ultimately, we want Spirit to work similarly: a stat that's so good, you want it everywhere you can get it. If that's not the case for you, we'd like to fix that by making Spirit more attractive, not by making you want to equip non-Spirit items (and fight with half your raid over them).

We made some changes along those lines in 6.1 (such as the Mistweaver changes to Mana Tea). We feel that, with those changes, we're now in a position now where healers should always prefer Spirit pieces in the ring, neck, and back slots. The nature of trinkets makes them a little less cut-and-dry: in the vast majority of situations, you should prefer the Spirit trinket, but there could conceivably be a situation in which a DPS trinket would give better performance. We're still discussing what (if any) changes would need to be made to prevent those niche occurrences, but again, our goal is that you don't want the DPS trinkets.
03/06/2015 12:35 PMPosted by Lore
We feel that, with those changes, we're now in a position now where healers should always prefer Spirit pieces in the ring, neck, and back slots. The nature of trinkets makes them a little less cut-and-dry: in the vast majority of situations, you should prefer the Spirit trinket, but there could conceivably be a situation in which a DPS trinket would give better performance.


I definitely go for spirit trinkets, but with those in hand I don't really need spirit in the other available slots. That feels like overkill.
Unfortunately Lore that is not always how stat optimization works. I'll take a dps haste trinket over spirit any day for the purpose it serves me, but removing my ability to bonus roll on said item drastically hurts my gearing process. If you truly want to try and lessen this issue, instead of completely removing the option why don't you give some way to "unrestrict" one item from the bonus roll list so we could at least have a shot at getting our BiS "dps" trinkets for our healers?

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