GMs in the forums are a good thing.

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03/18/2015 03:48 PMPosted by Zarhym
But to acknowledge every piece of feedback we're taking into consideration can lead to confusion or frustration if we don't end up acting on said feedback.


You can't have someone who just writes down some notes for you guys? =/
Yes, lets take a look at talent balance for a minute.

Talent Balance

Developer Commentary: A primary focus for class changes in Patch 6.1 is improving overall talent balance. Not every talent needs to be useful in every situation; and in fact it’s often better if they have strengths and weaknesses. But we do try to have each talent be useful in some situations, and make them close enough in value that if you really enjoy the gameplay of a talent you don’t feel like you’re dragging your group down by using it.

For these changes we focused primarily on tuning (tweaking numbers), and nearly all changes are buffs to underperforming talents. The goal is to reach more variety of viable builds, without bringing down the existing popular choices.


This is why destro is spamming one spell over and over... seems legit.
03/18/2015 05:48 PMPosted by Xilent
Here's a mind blowing idea.

Make PvP realms, Strictly PvP balanced. Still allow PvE but limit it to normal. No heroics, nothing to make the PvE side unfair. Throw in the PvE armors in for PvP rewards for the people that like to Xmog.

Make PvE Realms , strictly PvE balanced. Still allow PvP, but it is what it is with PvE balancing. Separate the rated PvP charts so that it isn't mixed up

I just can't understand after 10 years. That this hasn't been done yet. Makes no sense trying to balance PvE and PvP together. It just seems much more complicated to do so. I think millions of people paying 15$ a month scripts. Can allow for 2 different balancing teams

Just my 2 cents. Felt like I used PvE and PvP too much :)


Or how about just scaling mobs and bosses to be more in line with what pvp feels like? Make them slightly tougher and make bosses obviously harder but really, 5-10 minute fights for 25 people to take down one guy with a huge ego seems a bit ridiculous when the "heros" of the game get annihilated by 25 people in a global. How does that make any sense...
03/18/2015 02:52 PMPosted by Zarhym
There are thousands of Blizzard employees who have dedicated their lives to not only making great video games, but all-around epic entertainment experiences. So many people here are so passionate and dedicated to their careers that your question is, at the very least, perplexing.


I still see the passion in the game, and most people I play with do too.

I have been a fan of Blizzard games since playing vanilla vanilla Warcraft commanding my peons to chop down trees and build outposts.

I don't think i have ever played a Blizzard game that gave me an impression that it was produced by developers who were just making a product to get generate sales, but by ones who actually like gaming.

That is saying a lot because there are many developers putting out garbage with how easy it is to distribute games today. Blizzard games still stand out to me as creating a product a step above in its attempt to deliver something you will love.
03/18/2015 11:45 PMPosted by Dela
You can't have someone who just writes down some notes for you guys? =/


Its nice to have developers that communicate with their customers, but at the end of the day they have to pick their vision and deliver on it or will just be micro managed into something unplayable.
03/18/2015 02:52 PMPosted by Zarhym
03/15/2015 10:01 PMPosted by Kanng
Every day there are constructive posts that essentially ask the same unanswered question. "Why doesn't Blizzard really care anymore?"

1. You and I must disagree on what "constructive" means.
2. It shouldn't be a shocking revelation that we don't jump to answer questions formed through false pretenses, or derived from fallacious arguments.

There are thousands of Blizzard employees who have dedicated their lives to not only making great video games, but all-around epic entertainment experiences. So many people here are so passionate and dedicated to their careers that your question is, at the very least, perplexing.

We understand people can get frustrated about things here and there. That's okay. WoW has a lot of moving pieces. Players are passionate too and we love that. But to channel that frustration into an accusation that we just don't care isn't constructive at all. To re-frame that accusation into a question is to really not be asking anything.

03/14/2015 10:19 PMPosted by Matuk
It feels like there's a barrier between the players and the devs, to the point that we often have no clue what's going on with the game changes or why. As an example I can relate to: Echo of the Elements, a Shaman talent, was totally redesigned for 6.1.
Why? We don't know. Nobody was complaining about it (at least not in noticeable amounts), and it was actually one of our better-designed talents. It wasn't used ALL the time or NONE of the time - it fit some situations better than others, as a talent should, and thus we'd change in/out of it on a fight-to-fight basis.
It didn't get better or worse necessarily - it's just a completely different design now.

03/16/2015 05:19 PMPosted by Matuk
No communication in regards to balance changes. I've seen communication on currency changes, or increasing item levels, and even "HOW TO PREPARE FOR PATCH 6.1 WHICH BRINGS NOTHING YOU NEED TO PREPARE FOR!", but usually nothing about class-specific ability changes.

As to the content, there's a LOT more to be said than that. Too powerful in what context? On specific fights? In specific pvp situations? In relation to other specs? When combined with certain spell/talent/gear combinations? What's the data showing it so powerful, that the players don't seem to have access to?
Saying something was "too powerful" is incredibly vague and is just as bad as saying nothing, without additional clarification. There's plenty of intelligent minds in this game community as well, not just mindless trolls spamming random buttons and standing in fire.

I understand that some people will always want more information on our design philosophy. But do keep in mind that a developer's primary job is to develop. That's their expertise, but we'll do what we can as an organization to make sure players have some perspective on why the developers are designing things the way they are.

To use your example about patch 6.1 and Echo of the Elements, let's take a look at the section labeled "Talent Balance" in the [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/17989015/"]6.1 patch notes[/url]:

[quote]Talent Balance

Developer Commentary: A primary focus for class changes in Patch 6.1 is improving overall talent balance. Not every talent needs to be useful in every situation; and in fact it’s often better if they have strengths and weaknesses. But we do try to have each talent be useful in some situations, and make them close enough in value that if you really enjoy the gameplay of a talent you don’t feel like you’re dragging your group down by using it.

For these changes we focused primarily on tuning (tweaking numbers), and nearly all changes are buffs to underperforming talents. The goal is to reach more variety of viable builds, without bringing down the existing popular choices.


Why is it when a Blue responds to someone it's always one of the negative loonies? You know that has some outlandish point like universally not caring anymore. OR They will reply to white knight positive posts or MVPs?

Not usually the in between posts that make some sense. Look no further than the Monk forums as an example. I think Lore replied once and one Monk was so surprised he asked if he was lost.

Blood Elves do not even have a jab animation. At least the female ones. There are some serious class concerns with WW and nothing is said. All they get it, "We are listening, can't reply to our own forums most of the time."

Yet a blue can pop out of nowhere and respond to a loony (because it's easy to see how wrong it is and it keeps up an image) or an over compliment.

I expect this, "You have to understand anything we say, someone will have a problem with it. So telling someone,a group, a class, why we did this or that to a ability or in game aspect will not help at all. We would rather add and fix later."

Only that is still no excuse for not talking to your community over valid concerns. Such as the jab animation and other examples. You guys can boldly exclaim your are adding a new mount and a token without any fear from the community. Yet you can't talk with your customers more often.

That is no excuse for silence I am sorry. Thousands of people and you can't hire more blues to talk on the forums more often. Just because everyone at Blizzard thinks it is not beneficial to talk to the community does mean that it is right. Unless adding Tokens and Mounts, then it is beneficial because it gets you money.

Other developers can do it but you can't? Oh right Blizzard are the New York Yankees of game development. You are above such matters as conversing with their community, unless it is on par with a haley's comet like event. You are already the fat dragon stuck in the cave with all the gold given to them by the players. I forgot.

You should really change your name to Fat Dragon Games. Wait honestly I like the name sounds cool don't.

I wish you would just come out and say it. Some of the more over zealous trolls and lifers might give you some hate. You are scared and intimidated of the very same fans who pay you and allow you to fund your life. This makes you ignore your rational players. Really?

So you stick to the shadows except for very rare occasions like chatting on here once in awhile and Blizzcon. You get your feedback from those little cards people fill out before leaving overall.

That fact is Blizzard got too successful. You put yourself on too high of a mountain. Those little dots down at the bottom of it? Yeah that is us and we still care about your games. Remember us? Apparently not unless it is some big PR event, a help ticket, or a once in a great while forum post.

Oh and for the record we care just as much about your games, as you care about making them. We have dedicated just as much time as you towards your games. The difference is we are giving you our money and not making hundreds of millions of dollars a month like Metzen and Friends.
03/15/2015 10:14 PMPosted by Silvadanra

Side-note: I do know that a big reason Ghostcrawler ended up leaving Blizzard and instead going to Riot is that he was fed-up with this problem. I remember he often made efforts to communicate with the players directly in the forums, and though he got a lot of flak, he kept doing it. Nobody has taken up the gauntlet to fill that void.

Fascinating. Do you have evidence to support this statement?


Agreed. Yeah he left WoW because they community is horrible. Everyone knows MOBA players are nice and fair. Especially in League of Legends. LMAO
03/19/2015 01:16 AMPosted by Chiwake
03/18/2015 02:52 PMPosted by Zarhym
...
1. You and I must disagree on what "constructive" means.
2. It shouldn't be a shocking revelation that we don't jump to answer questions formed through false pretenses, or derived from fallacious arguments.

There are thousands of Blizzard employees who have dedicated their lives to not only making great video games, but all-around epic entertainment experiences. So many people here are so passionate and dedicated to their careers that your question is, at the very least, perplexing.

We understand people can get frustrated about things here and there. That's okay. WoW has a lot of moving pieces. Players are passionate too and we love that. But to channel that frustration into an accusation that we just don't care isn't constructive at all. To re-frame that accusation into a question is to really not be asking anything.

...
...
I understand that some people will always want more information on our design philosophy. But do keep in mind that a developer's primary job is to develop. That's their expertise, but we'll do what we can as an organization to make sure players have some perspective on why the developers are designing things the way they are.

To use your example about patch 6.1 and Echo of the Elements, let's take a look at the section labeled "Talent Balance" in the [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/17989015/"]6.1 patch notes[/url]:

[quote]Talent Balance

Developer Commentary: A primary focus for class changes in Patch 6.1 is improving overall talent balance. Not every talent needs to be useful in every situation; and in fact it’s often better if they have strengths and weaknesses. But we do try to have each talent be useful in some situations, and make them close enough in value that if you really enjoy the gameplay of a talent you don’t feel like you’re dragging your group down by using it.

For these changes we focused primarily on tuning (tweaking numbers), and nearly all changes are buffs to underperforming talents. The goal is to reach more variety of viable builds, without bringing down the existing popular choices.


Why is it when a Blue responds to someone it's always one of the negative loonies? You know that has some outlandish point like universally not caring anymore. OR They will reply to white knight positive posts or MVPs?

Not usually the in between posts that make some sense. Look no further than the Monk forums as an example. I think Lore replied once and one Monk was so surprised he asked if he was lost.

Blood Elves do not even have a jab animation. At least the female ones. There are some serious class concerns with WW and nothing is said. All they get it, "We are listening, can't reply to our own forums most of the time."

Yet a blue can pop out of nowhere and respond to a loony (because it's easy to see how wrong it is and it keeps up an image) or an over compliment.

I expect this, "You have to understand anything we say, someone will have a problem with it. So telling someone,a group, a class, why we did this or that to a ability or in game aspect will not help at all. We would rather add and fix later."

Only that is still no excuse for not talking to your community over valid concerns. Such as the jab animation and other examples. You guys can boldly exclaim your are adding a new mount and a token without any fear from the community. Yet you can't talk with your customers more often.

That is no excuse for silence I am sorry. Thousands of people and you can't hire more blues to talk on the forums more often. Just because everyone at Blizzard thinks it is not beneficial to talk to the community does mean that it is right. Unless adding Tokens and Mounts, then it is beneficial because it gets you money.

Other developers can do it but you can't? Oh right Blizzard are the New York Yankees of game development. You are above such matters as conversing with their community, unless it is on par with a haley's comet like event. You are already the fat dragon stuck in the cave with all the gold given to them by the players. I forgot.

You should really change your name to Fat Dragon Games. Wait honestly I like the name sounds cool don't.

I wish you would just come out and say it. Some of the more over zealous trolls and lifers might give you some hate. You are scared and intimidated of the very same fans who pay you and allow you to fund your life. This makes you ignore your rational players. Really?

So you stick to the shadows except for very rare occasions like chatting on here once in awhile and Blizzcon. You get your feedback from those little cards people fill out before leaving overall.

That fact is Blizzard got too successful. You put yourself on too high of a mountain. Those little dots down at the bottom of it? Yeah that is us and we still care about your games. Remember us? Apparently not unless it is some big PR event, a help ticket, or a once in a great while forum post.

Oh and for the record we care just as much about your games, as you care about making them. We have dedicated just as much time as you towards your games. The difference is we are giving you our money and not making hundreds of millions of dollars a month like Metzen and Friends.


This 100x this, hit the nail on the head , smack dab, right on!!! /marry me
I still think one of the biggest problems with our community, by the way, is the simple fact that daring to have an opinion other than "Blizzard is the best, I trust them implicitly, and worship the ground they walk on!" is responded to with much contempt and dislike. Makes it hard to share our concerns when everybody thinks having those concerns makes you a demon.

I just really want to see this game improve, and one area I think we can improve is more interaction between players and devs, in a manner that helps the game progress forward.
I don't base my decisions around what the top .01% of the WoW playerbase does, and neither should you (unless you're in Method or something, if so, good for you).

DPS Shamans may be useless for Method's needs, but they're perfectly viable for the vast majority of the playerbase. Shamans are not struggling. They're not the best, but that does not mean they're struggling.

Perspective is important.


Go in the arena as an ele shaman and try to beat a hunter or a boomkin thats running around a pillar.
You said perspective is important, now go see for yourself instead of being a blind blizz fanboy defending everything you can.
03/18/2015 03:48 PMPosted by Zarhym


We're constantly reviewing and considering feedback, whether we're sifting through posts at work or logged into the game on our own time and checking out what people are saying/doing.

[/quote]

Unless, of course, it is the radio silence from developers on why they think breaking Warlock talents/spells to make them useless is a good way to balance our class.
The fact that class imbalances have been rampant this long into an expac and despite the numerous threads in the arena forum about them, We are supposed to feel guilty bout about expressing our complaints and discontent with the direction this game is going.

I am assuming these are full time jobs 40+ hours a week positions you guys have - how much data is there to look at and how hard is it to get such passionate game developers to come up with an idea to fix these imbalances and known issues. Even worse the player community comes up with ideas and there is nothing but silence from blizzard.

Me and my circle of friends arent even subbed to this game any longer, we have taken our free time to LoL and Guild Wars 2 - we just got tired of waiting and 6.1 was a huge TURN OFF it came off as bad as the MOP reveal at blizzcon.
03/19/2015 05:39 AMPosted by Nayaga
03/18/2015 02:52 PMPosted by Zarhym
It shouldn't be a shocking revelation that we don't jump to answer questions formed through false pretenses, or derived from fallacious arguments.
Then you should jump in to correct false pretenses and fallacious arguments.


On these forums, that could turn out to be a full time job for half a dozen people. It'd also be a sure-fire way for anyone wanting attention to get it.
03/18/2015 02:52 PMPosted by Zarhym
But do keep in mind that a developer's primary job is to develop.
And it's the customers "job" to decide if what the developer has created is worth paying money for.

This would be a good time to listen and respond to our feedback.


To that end - it's the CM's job to compile that feedback and feed it to the devs.

I'm sure they know exactly how the player base feels right now. It's now their decision, based upon that information, whether it's a big enough problem that something needs to be done about it. Only they know that, we can only guess at the current sub figures and guess what point is low enough for them to be worried about it.

We have to bear in mind that some losses are inevitable, also that it's unlikely they're going to do a U-turn in game direction before the next expac - once the ball is rolling on the current plan, it's not easy to stop it, there's just too much time already invested in making the current expac the way it is. If I had to hazard a guess, shedding 2-4 million subs is probably a better option for them than throwing away the work that's gone into the current expac. "Crisis mode" where they drop everything to keep players happy quite probably doesn't get engaged until they're down to as low as 4 million.

The most we're likely to see this expac are tweaks - people said garrisons were unsociable, they added things to get people to invite others to them. What they did probably wasn't the best solution, but it's likely the most that's possible in the short term.

Long-term changes are more likely from feedback. The feedback from MoP pretty much got us the current product. The feedback from WoD will get us the next one.

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