Please Revert 10% Damage Decrease Hotfix

Arenas
Please revert the 10% damage decrease hotfix. I know it was an attempt at a bandaid hotfix to counter PvE feral druid buffs etc but no one can kill anything until ~ 10 minutes into a 3v3 match. Im sorry no one wants to take that long of a time trying to kill anyone. I would rather get globaled by a class with super burst than sit there for 10-15 minutes, at least its over fast. However if a class is globaling why not fix the class instead of breaking the entire 3v3 bracket?
+1.

I know it's tough for anyone, especially people under as much constant scrutiny as Blizzard to admit they made a mistake, but they really screwed the pooch with this one.

I could honestly care less about my results pre vs post 10% nerf, but I can say that regardless of whether I'm winning or losing, I'm having a lot less fun now.

Here's a list of reasons why slow games are awful for arena.

Teams that are setup to simply never lose end up winning every game because of dampening. Remember L S D from MoP? Is that really what we want to go back to? The only difference now is that instead of being tanky and hoping for random one shots, teams are tanky and waiting for dampening to guarantee kills.

Losing after 10 minutes makes people want to just stop queuing. It's exhausting when every game lasts more than 10 minutes, and making plays seems much much less important when you can't punish players for mistakes because nothing dies before dampening kicks in.

When the pace of the game is super slow, counter-comps matter a LOT more. When you can't punish players for their mistakes, the game turns into spreadsheet hero where you can just sort of plot your burst windows vs their defensives and their burst windows vs yours and predict who is going to win. Makes it not even worth queuing.

Getting dampened doesn't allow for much room for improvement or counterplay opportunities. If I have a PvE slugfest vs turbocleave and no amount of CC-chains ever result in a player on their team dying but we just lose because they live forever and deal tons of constant damage, what exactly am I supposed to do? If something counters you that's fine, but at least when game pacing is fast it's easier to make mistakes and good players can capitalize on those mistakes.

I don't think pacing should ever go back to MoP where health bars moved from 100% to 10% and back instantaneously and one CC could mean a shatter combo for an entire health bar, but we've moved too far in the other direction now. The pacing towards the middle/end of 6.0 was actually pretty good, and excluding a few outliers the pacing in 6.1 honestly wasn't that bad even after the trinket buffs, but this 10% damage nerf is awful, and when you combine it with hpal heals reducing damage by another 15%, half the games it feels like I'm swinging a nerf bat.

Just ranting now I guess, it's not even very coherent which bugs me because I try to put thought into what I post, but it's just so frustrating to see most of my friends list not queuing because of how bad 3's are right now. And it's not just "my friends". R1 rating actually DEFLATED over the past week or two because of how ridiculously terrible participation is right now. Please fix this.
The funny thing is, this hotfix doesn't really hurt the classes/specs that are the most problematic right now as much as it does everyone else. Ferals, Hunters, and Mage/Rogue are still doing too much damage during burst while everyone else is pretty tame in comparison. It would've been a lot smarter to just hotfix nerf certain abilities of those classes in PvP rather than just blanket everyone and call it a day.

No one likes long drawn out matches that go into dampening. It makes you lose focus and get frustrated faster, which in turn makes you want to stop playing completely. Comps that benefit from this shouldn't be rewarded for playing NOT to lose for 10-15+ minutes either. That isn't good game play, it's taking advantage of a dumb mechanic like dampening.

Also, /wave Lvlden. I think I was in your guild for a bit before I left KT on this character.
I'd rather have this meta than getting cleaved down by idiot ret/BM teams.
03/18/2015 06:31 AMPosted by Reddlynn
I'd rather have this meta than getting cleaved down by idiot ret/BM teams.

So you'd rather be farmed by RMD and Godcomp all day than by Cupid or Jungle.

Stop being such a size queen and realize your personal preference is the kind of thing that kills games.

This Meta is a joke.

Druids and Hunters need the 10% off the top, not WWs and Elemental Shaman.
03/18/2015 06:41 AMPosted by Saiáchi
03/18/2015 06:31 AMPosted by Reddlynn
I'd rather have this meta than getting cleaved down by idiot ret/BM teams.

You're part of the problem.

Here's a small... idea as it were, hm? J-just hear me out on this, I know it sounds crazy, but hear me out.

HOW ABOUT NERFING THE SPECS THAT ARE ACTUALLY OVERPOWERED?!


I know it sounds crazy, but increasing damage isn't the solution to making the game better.

People want a faster paced game but I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that run in pop swofty macro is terrible design. Classes in general have become too tanky and healing is a little too high, but at the same time, some classes control is over the top both offensively and defensively meaning healing has to be this high but at the same time the healing is too high. That's why dampening comps are a thingy, they live until healing is low enough to score a kill.

Damage isn't the problem right now. The amount CC is too high, passive defenses are too good, healing is too high. CC and defensives won't be fixed by hotfixes and nerfing healing is just accelerating dampening.

03/18/2015 07:21 AMPosted by Hêrpdêrp
Druids and Hunters need the 10% off the top, not WWs and Elemental Shaman.


Druids and Hunters weren't the only classes, Mages, DKs, Rogues, Rets, Warlocks, Warriors, a lot of classes were doing over the top damage. Yeah classes that were bad got nerfed, nerf 2 bad classes and fix 5 overpowered ones is not the worst solution.
Druids and Hunters weren't the only classes, Mages, DKs, Rogues, Rets, Warlocks, Warriors, a lot of classes were doing over the top damage. Yeah classes that were bad got nerfed, nerf 2 bad classes and fix 5 overpowered ones is not the worst solution.


This isn't carpetbombing.

Collateral damage isn't a necessity.

They're perfectly capable of reining in Hunters and Druids without further kicking WW and Ele/Enhance while they're down.

This was a lazy do-nothing fix that literally just set everyone back 10% but didn't change the actual meta beyond promoting Rotcomps.
03/18/2015 07:41 AMPosted by Hêrpdêrp
Druids and Hunters weren't the only classes, Mages, DKs, Rogues, Rets, Warlocks, Warriors, a lot of classes were doing over the top damage. Yeah classes that were bad got nerfed, nerf 2 bad classes and fix 5 overpowered ones is not the worst solution.


This isn't carpetbombing.

Collateral damage isn't a necessity.

They're perfectly capable of reining in Hunters and Druids without further kicking WW and Ele/Enhance while they're down.

This was a lazy do-nothing fix that literally just set everyone back 10% but didn't change the actual meta beyond promoting Rotcomps.


Like I said it wasn't just Hunters and Druids the majority of classes were doing over the top damage. Besides WW and Ele/Enh work better in rot comps right now than burst comps, so by using your logic the change to damage actually buffed those classes.
please just stop

the 10% only made it so dampening teams win automatically because that is what they were built for compared to comps that rely on ending the game quickly

reason why dampening comps took effort before and werent as popular was because it took effort and some skill to livelord until dampening, now its effortless

the 10% also made it so unless you have retarded high burst/dmg which once again is still the same classes, youre not even close to being as viable, the only thing they did was make it so the op classes are even more prevalent and popular because the other classes just dont have the damage anymore to keep up with the 10% nerf while the classes who already had retarded dmg before, still do fine because their dmg was tweaked down to the levels of where everyone else was at before the 10% change

not only does it kill any comp that rely on ending the game short but it pretty much destroys class/spec viablity

priest healers are absolute garbage and the worst when it comes to dampening, they never were dampening healers they always relied on short matches which is why 99% of priest comps are built around burst
consistent damage dealers who were mainly chosen for their control and their "alright" burst like sub are not viable whatsoever with this change etc etc the list goes on

youre honestly just being dumb if youre trying to justify the 10% change
absolutely nothing changed in the meta for the better, the only thing that changed were the already broken classes reigning supreme over everything else even harder, before the 10% they were still broken yes but you could at the very least smack down the terrible ones and have a chance, now you have absolutely zero chance unless youre one of the broken classes/comps

cc is an issue in of itself, by your logic any comp that had heavy cc would be doing fantastic still, no theyre not. because if that was the case sub would be even MORE popular from the amount of control they have and so would cupid but neither of which are that strong anymore because before you used to get punished if you got cc chained and force cds, now with the 10% unless youre one of the broken classes (see a pattern???) the damage isnt high enough through the cc chain to even force anything

damage is the MAIN reason behind why the season is absolutely terrible now
why this even has to be explained is beyond me
WW and Ele/Enh

Work


No.

The 3 specs that do literally the least damage of any DPS specs in the game don't magically 'work better' after getting a 10% damage nerf.

Are you from this universe? Do you understand how math works here?
ww does not need to be on the least damage list lol they are one of the specs that do the most damage currently
03/18/2015 08:04 AMPosted by Hêrpdêrp
WW and Ele/Enh

Work


No.

The 3 specs that do literally the least damage of any DPS specs in the game don't magically 'work better' after getting a 10% damage nerf.

Are you from this universe? Do you understand how math works here?


Do you even arena? Enhance is significantly better after they toned down burst.

The problem right now is the ability to control DPS, specifically mages are currently a cancer that is destroying arena. Dampening is almost required to land a kill vs mage teams because their ability to peel for their partners + their mobility and effectiveness of flameglow makes them incredibly hard to put down. Rdruids are also a huge problem because cyclone is so effective in this meta because of how high healing is.

Buffing damage is literally the worst solution possible to fixing the problem in arena. Damage doesn't need to be higher, if control was lower then healing could be lowered. This generally favors more mongo teams like Ret/Hunter or Feral/Hunter but if we keep damage low they can still compete but it won't be as absurd as just straight buffing damage.

Literally any time there is a change people say the previous patch was better. No it wasn't. Hunter/Melee meta and God comp/RMD one shotting is not a better game. Dampening is not fun, but it's sure in the hell better than people training your healer from start to finish. Dampening allows more classes to be viable not the other way around. Dampening hurts certain comps, but those classes have other comps that are now viable too.
03/18/2015 08:05 AMPosted by Velca
ww does not need to be on the least damage list lol they are one of the specs that do the most damage currently


Yea, isn't WW/DK for wrecking healers viable?
In 2s I'm just like this with my partner. "No point in really trying until we're about 5 minutes in." Then I actually start to play the game. I can't be bothered getting carpal tunnel spamming WW to have nothing happen at all.
The blanket fix was terrible as not all classes needed to deal 10% less damage and not all classes needed to take 10% less damage.

WW is a good example, they deal a crazy amount of damage but they also take a metric ton of damage. So this change was good for them, but then you have Enh who is the opposite. Blizz just needs to scrap the game and start over. DPS shamans are a cluster, Rets have huge swings in damage potential, half of ferals damaging abilities are useless.

Its getting to the point where I'd rather just quit for the rest of this expac till they fix their game. They just need to take each class, remove everything, and start over.
Enhance is significantly better after they toned down burst.


Enhance was already a livelord spec, the problem is it had near-zero pressure and was essentially a purgebot.
Enhance shamans have taken a huge hit by this blanket, especially in 2s. I hit 2k last week in 2v2 with my fury warrior and we worked 6 hours a day over 2700 games to get to beating 2k teams. After the nerf, we started realizing healers quickly recovering after we would properly landed all of our stuns/kicks and CC multiple times. No matter how hard we tried to outplay and react faster than the other team, we just couldnt punish them for any of their mistakes like we use to prenerf. Game after game, frustration after frustration we worked our fingers to the bone trying to forget this nerf and blame it on ourselves, slacking or needing more practice. but after we both fell back into the 1800s and started having games go into dampening where i am doing 2 million damage a game AND healing. We thought enough was enough and we dropped 2s for the time being. We thought it would get better in 3s but all we saw was more and more dampening games that are boring and not fun to play whatsoever. Enhance shamans and other dps affected, especially double dps comps that worked HARD to get 2k, I resonate with your pain. Now we wait for Blizzard to give us the service that we are paying good money for so we can have our fun again or they will lose players. The top PvPers are already unsubbing and with that their fans will follow.
03/18/2015 09:21 AMPosted by Morithin
They just need to take each class, remove everything, and start over.


They'd screw it up even harder than 6.0 honestly. They've gone down the "dumb down each class and make it easy enough for a down syndrome person to play" path and because of that, there really is no salvaging it anymore. They have to fundamentally change their philosophy and business model if they want to make the pvp scene competitive and engaging again. And clearly they don't, because they'd rather make money off of casual players now.

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