PvP trinket baseline

Battlegrounds
Let me start this off with a disclaimer and state that this is not about the human racial. I'm not making this post to suggest, in any way, that it is op or unfair. I'm not interested in hashing it out again about how which faction has it better or how X faction had it better than Y faction for Z expansion. There are tons of other threads about that issue and they don't get very far. This is simply a suggestion and one that could possibly stop the beating of several dead horses.

As the title suggests, I would be interested in seeing PvP trinkets taken off items and made into a base spell that a character would learn at a very low level, if not start out with it right off the bat. My reasoning for this is very simple:

= It would remove the necessity to waste a trinket slot for an item that everyone usually needs to have.

= It would allow us to equip a trinket that could offer something more than a secondary stat.

= It would give access to the pvp trinket at an earlier level for new players, giving them a more even advantage at lower bracket BG's and world pvp. Yes there are heirloom trinkets. This is intended for new players who do not have a max level character and would do away with the need to purchase an heirloom trinket.

= It would give PvErs the opportunity to use it as well. If this not an intended function, there are already debuffs in the game in which EMFH/PvP trinkets do not remove. A little tweak here, a little change of code there. Status quo maintained.

What is to be done about EMFH? It's as simple as coming up with a new racial for humans. That is something that could be discussed here as well. To conclude, I think this would be a good move in a positive direction. It would allow an ability that is pretty necessary to be distributed to everyone and no longer allow it to be a boundary.

Thank you.
I've been wanting this for quite some time. The current PvP trinkets are so boring, not to mention the daily threads about EMFH being OP. Maybe some of the huge number of humans on the ladders might even race change to something that actually look nice.
This is one of the most glaring oversights of the game, especially after the last 2 expansions, which saw a lot of quality of life improvements on details like this, that don't change much about gameplay. At this point, I'm convinced that Blizzard will never change it for reasons that can not be explained. Let me put it this way, keeping armor pen would have been a better decision than keeping CC break trinkets in the game, as it is a much more compelling thing to tailor your play around. It's that bad this is still in the game.

Point to bring up, this isn't just an issue for new players. I've been playing since mid-2008, and just the other day I switched my spec for arena and got blown up out of the gate because I didn't realize the trinket on my bar was still my old one from before my upgrade on the off-spec.

An annoyance? Yes, but hardly the first time something like that has happened, and it won't be the last. Of course I could make a /use macro for the item slot, but that is a hassle, and heaven forbid one day after PvEing I equip the trinket in the wrong slot.
I would think they would have to rework a lot of PVE fights that have stuns included in the encounters if everyone had a base stun break.

Which is why they won't do it.

But, totally in favor of it.

I miss gear with interesting stats like "regenerate 3 hp per 5 sec".
The homogenization never stops. This is the type of thing that has turned this game into garbage.
03/31/2015 06:56 AMPosted by Verandra
The homogenization never stops. This is the type of thing that has turned this game into garbage.


It's already homogenized. Every PvP player in the World of Warcraft has a trinket or racial that performs the EMFH effect. It's like if you could buy a Trinket to give someone Shadowmeld or Stoneform or Arcane Torrent. The human racial is purchasable and necessary for any level of PvP play.

Less homogenization would be to just give every race an ability that performs EMFH, and let any race select whatever two DPS/Stamina trinkets they want, while giving Humans something completely unique.

For the human racial, I'd suggest a Versatility CD ability like Berserker or whatever for brief insta-damage/healing buff or damage reduction.
03/31/2015 06:56 AMPosted by Verandra
The homogenization never stops. This is the type of thing that has turned this game into garbage.


But wouldn't a change like this increase diversity? Right now the human advantage on damage is significant, people are race changing to it because of the advantage, humans make over half the leaderboards in every bracket over 2k, and it's mostly humans in ashran and bgs.

Making trinket baseline and giving humans something different will increase diversity, instead of just giving humans an ability that was copying trinket, which really just gives them nothing but a stat boost instead of something interesting and different.

We most likely will never see emfh go away, because it would be akin to blizzard taking a child's toys away, the backlash would be awful. Giving EVERYONE something will make people happy.
I support baselining the trinket for several reasons:

1) It would give this game something it truly needs - stability. From race/faction to min/maxing to whatever changes, we need players playing classes they WANT to play, not just a few classes they MUST play.

2) It would open up an additional trinket slot for more choice and options. More creativity.

3) If there is one thing that SHOULD be homogenized it is a CC breaking ability. In PvP that is huge.

Like you said, just give humans a new racial.

For the record, I actually don't think the difference is all that great between EMFH and others - but for integrity and overall fairness of the game (and to stop this argument), I think it just needs to happen.
03/31/2015 05:59 AMPosted by Retrodin
I would think they would have to rework a lot of PVE fights that have stuns included in the encounters if everyone had a base stun break.

You can't trinket stuns in a raid environment. Well at least boss battles.

Anyway /signed
03/31/2015 07:34 AMPosted by Endricane
The human racial is purchasable and necessary for any level of PvP play.


Yes, for the Alliance side because the other races lack anything beneficial.

Your perception of the human racial is exactly what got us here in the first place.

Perception was the human racial previously, qq about it being OP, and wizard hats and wands were donned to create EMFH.

I would say EMFH could be removed as long as these are removed; War Stomp: Activate to stun opponents – Stuns up to 5 enemies within 8 yards for 2 seconds. 2 minute cooldown and Arcane Torrent: Activate to silence all enemies within 8 yards for 2 seconds. In addition, you gain 10 Energy, 10 Runic Power or (5 + Level) Mana for each charge of Mana Tap currently affecting you. 2 min. cooldown.

However, bloodfury is still pretty beast, though I am glad that Will of the Forsaken was nerfed so that it didn't induce the prolonged immunity on use that it held previously.

Retrodin
100 Human Paladin
PvPimpn aint PvEasy
10385
I miss gear with interesting stats like "regenerate 3 hp per 5 sec".

It's called MP5.

03/30/2015 01:16 AMPosted by Metarune
Maybe some of the huge number of humans on the ladders might even race change to something that actually look nice.

Well, the game was originally called "Orcs Vs Humans" so...I don't think it's a stretch to say that humans were a class that wanted to be played by players since inception.
03/31/2015 06:56 AMPosted by Verandra
The homogenization never stops. This is the type of thing that has turned this game into garbage.


This is the worst example of homogenization you could have picked. This is just common sense, and should have been done since BC at the latest.
03/31/2015 07:34 AMPosted by Endricane
03/31/2015 06:56 AMPosted by Verandra
The homogenization never stops. This is the type of thing that has turned this game into garbage.


It's already homogenized. Every PvP player in the World of Warcraft has a trinket or racial that performs the EMFH effect. It's like if you could buy a Trinket to give someone Shadowmeld or Stoneform or Arcane Torrent. The human racial is purchasable and necessary for any level of PvP play.

Less homogenization would be to just give every race an ability that performs EMFH, and let any race select whatever two DPS/Stamina trinkets they want, while giving Humans something completely unique.

For the human racial, I'd suggest a Versatility CD ability like Berserker or whatever for brief insta-damage/healing buff or damage reduction.


This guy gets it. But now that you mention it, purchasing trinkets for other race's racials sounds pretty awesome
/agreed.

Great way to add some variety, in races chosen and what PVP trinks do in general... AND will hopefully prevent a tidal wave of salty tears from removal of EMFH.
03/31/2015 05:18 AMPosted by Nurwon
At this point, I'm convinced that Blizzard will never change it for reasons that can not be explained

You can have the baseline trinket too. Just roll a human.

Or, you can choose (like the free-willed, sentient creature that you are) any other race, weigh the options of what you want, and come to a decision like a rational adult.

Or you can be the child who gets a free ice cream cone, with sprinkles! Glorious sprinkles! Then sees another child walk by with peanut butter on his. HOW DARE HE?! He has something you don't! It's obviously the problem of the Ice cream clerk, for not giving you ALL the options. No. You need that other child's peanut butter, and if he complains, too bad. You'll just toss him a little chocolate chips and say, "There, that's fair. I have what I want and you...well you shouln't have picked that topping."
03/31/2015 05:18 AMPosted by Nurwon
An annoyance? Yes, but hardly the first time something like that has happened, and it won't be the last. Of course I could make a /use macro for the item slot, but that is a hassle, and heaven forbid one day after PvEing I equip the trinket in the wrong slot.

HOW DARE I BE PUNISHED FOR NOT PAYING ATTENTION! I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO THINK!
03/31/2015 10:56 AMPosted by Wolfcookie
Well, the game was originally called "Orcs Vs Humans" so...I don't think it's a stretch to say that humans were a class that wanted to be played by players since inception.

You mean...people actually choose their race on more than just the racials? Aesthetics and passives are a thing? The fact I didn't want to be a midget, purple elf, or werewolf didn't factor in at all?! OH MY GOD. I should reroll Orc for all the PvE I do. In fact, we all should. Except for Haste specs. Roll trolls. Healers go Blood elves for that extra mana. Tanks need to be dwarves ONLY. Goblins? Nope. They're deleted. We only bring Worgen for fights that involve a lot of movement. Night elves? Deleted. Forsaken? Which bosses fear and charm again? Bring 'em for that.
03/30/2015 01:09 AMPosted by Jameus
As the title suggests, I would be interested in seeing PvP trinkets taken off items and made into a base spell that a character would learn at a very low level, if not start out with it right off the bat. My reasoning for this is very simple:


they won't do this because they don't want you to trinket our of a boss stun in PvE because reasons
[quote]

Or, you can choose (like the free-willed, sentient creature that you are) any other race, weigh the options of what you want, and come to a decision like a rational adult.

Or you can be the child who gets a free ice cream cone, with sprinkles! Glorious sprinkles! Then sees another child walk by with peanut butter on his. HOW DARE HE?! He has something you don't! It's obviously the problem of the Ice cream clerk, for not giving you ALL the options. No. You need that other child's peanut butter, and if he complains, too bad. You'll just toss him a little chocolate chips and say, "There, that's fair. I have what I want and you...well you shouln't have picked that topping."
03/31/2015 05:18 AMPosted by Nurwon
An annoyance? Yes, but hardly the first time something like that has happened, and it won't be the last. Of course I could make a /use macro for the item slot, but that is a hassle, and heaven forbid one day after PvEing I equip the trinket in the wrong slot.

HOW DARE I BE PUNISHED FOR NOT PAYING ATTENTION! I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO THINK!


Hands down the worst argument, while at the same time being the most expected cliched argument, in a failed attempt to feel superior.

Your point boils down to "stop whining." Nowhere in your rambling sarcasm did you make a point as to why it would be a bad thing to make trinket baseline, or how keeping it the way it is somehow adds something to the game.

If every class but orc had to remember to equip an item, or they'd lose 25% damage, and there was no damned good reason for it, I'd be willing to bet you wouldn't be saying, "stop crying that someone has something that you don't! Pay attention, and buy the right items and you won't have that problem!"
SWTOR has baseline trinket, why can't WoW?
Baseline EMFH as a racial would be good.

Just call it "For the Horde!" and "For the Alliance!"

Give Humans some gibbed Rallying Cry racial. I think it'd fit their motif as figureheads and leaders.

I'd also like a wider variety of PvP trinkets. Specifically ones with passive stats plus effects identical to all actives in the game. (As well as Hardiness, because no one wants Blood Fury.)

Of course racials still need rebalancing and would have to be made competitive with present PvP trinkets to earn a trinket slot.
Just remove racials altogether then.

So so so sick of all the whining. Racials removed = no more excuses as to why the person got beaten. No more whining about reputation.

Then you can all whine about how boring the game has become some more. Because crap like this is exactly why this game has become so boring. Everyone wants someone elses toy.
Let's be honest here. The human racial effect is a non-factor, because every race in the game uses the EMFH effect for PvP. It is the double trinket we're talking about.

Funny how with some of the ideas suggested, humans lose nothing they have right now -- they should actually gain their own unique racial if trinket becomes baseline, in fact, hopefully something cool and noteworthy. Funny, because, why would someone be against getting a new racial while losing nothing?

The QQ is driven by the idea of letting other races use double trinkets. And to be fair, this wouldn't even be a discussion if trinkets weren't so strong right now.

For example, say I can boost my Killing Spree by 10-20% with a single DPS trinket depending on RNG with mastery procs. Now give me another trinket (another effective 10-20% boost to KSpree) and let me use both trinkets during Red Buff (additional 50% damage to everything). I can now take someone 100-0% in seconds just by aligning cooldowns, and I am not the only class/spec capable of that. And burst like that is what ultimately wins PvP in present day WoW. Carrying the example further, the theoretical non-human Combat Rogue bursting someone down to 10%-20% health loses to the theoretical human Combat Rogue bursting someone to 0% health.

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