Reason wod pvp was unsuccessful

Arenas
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There are a lot of reasons for it. The gutting of the classes no doubt is a big factor. I have yet to touch my warrior at all this expansion. Ditto for my shaman. The only one? That's right the only class that didn't get gutted that actually got some interesting additions and changes is my hunter. I see how boring Arms is to play and I have no desire to play it.

Then you have the garrison which is a whopper of a bad idea. There is nothing that sucks the life out of the MMO universe more than a single player campaign / zone. Sure, I could just leave it as is but they made it so integral to the expansion that a lot of their time and energy was focused there.

I usually do hit slumps every expansion though but this is for a different reason. Usually I leave mid expansion just because I run out of things to do. This one I'm slumped because there are lots of things to do that I just don't want to do. Maybe that says more about me than it does the game.

However, I do think there is a lot of truth to the idea that classes at the end of Mists felt pretty damn good. Some were bloated but there was no reason to fix what wasn't broke. Dismantling rotations, getting rid of non-bloat abilities and reworking how already-fun class specs felt was a terrible idea. Imagine a Mortal Kombat iteration that just reworks all the abilities of each iconic character. It would suck.
It was fine that they pruned abilities, but some classes got hit hard when they already didn't have much to begin with in terms of bloat (Warriors) and other classes had barely anything taken from them and sill have alot of abilities to work with (rogues) which was a big problem. What they need to do for the next patch is add in some abilities back to the classes that need them so it brings some skill back to the game.

Right now its too easy to apply damage, too many unpeelable damage cds, too much tankiness while having absurd damage and control. etc etc.

I get they wanted to bring back the old feel of wow, but they need to also remember that back then classes still felt unique. go back to classes having a niche, strengths, and weaknesses, and having to rely on their partners to achieve a common goal and this game will have life back into it.
04/02/2015 11:49 AMPosted by Adr
WOD started out on the wrong foot for a lot of players because the question is always "what's new".

Instead of "what's new" it was "what's left" or "where did all my (expletive) abilities go??".

logging onto my warrior for the first time and having LITERALLY every key gone on my main bar was a bit unsettling. while many of the abilities were there still, they were shells of what they originally were. for those abilities left in the game, nearly all of them are spammy or have a specific CD. Lots of procs and "combos" or w/e you want to call them, got removed.

all the other balancing issues I don't care about in the sense it's the first season and hopefully more will come. but, on the whole though, my classes just feel less fun.

Instead of getting new, fun abilities to learn, I just got my old ones taken away or altered. Not a lot to look forward to. =/


I hear you I literally fall asleep playing my arms warr, when I play it.
04/02/2015 12:16 PMPosted by Renwlzwanabe
04/02/2015 11:58 AMPosted by Zikura
A new expansion every year would be pretty amazing
no, i hate leveling lol


Thank you. I feel like they just need to keep adding raids and content for us to enjoy at high lvl. instead a new xpac per year would just keep adding road blocks, making you have to lvl each time to see what little content they release. Perhaps that's the real reason for xpac per year, they can't just say in the current xpac hey we got a new raid but now you have to hit lvl110 and regear to do it.
why is the combopoint change simplified gameplay? it discourages tunneling
04/02/2015 01:09 PMPosted by Bakingsoda
04/02/2015 12:29 PMPosted by Neaz
Guys, don't expect classes to have more complexity again. I just made a thread in the GenDis and it seems the popular consensus is that people enjoy having 3 binds in PvE, and being able to "kick butt" in PvP when before they couldn't.

RIP WoW PvP.


thats exactly what blizzard wants even if they dont flat out say it. you can just feel it in every class, spec, and role. gc even had a post on the riot forums about the devs in his time period holding him back on certain things because they wanted simplification. games antique and theyre going to milk it out to new subs as long as they can which means basically making the game farmville.


Unfortunetely and despite any claims to the contrary I firmly belive that Blizz just like EVERY other company makes profit their main and only concern, quality is only a byproduct of this. The game COULD be loads better but then it could have less subscribers, and we can't have that.
This is the most accurate thread ive ever seen.

I want to emphasize simplified gameplay... Every single spec was made at least twice as easy this expansion. You dont need a game designing degree to realize that that would only make the game more boring.

Simplified gameplay is good for noobs. But anyone whos past the point of learning their class after reading spellbook are just going to get bored.
04/02/2015 11:32 AMPosted by Kìlljøy
Every healer having a dispell mega fail.


Someone revoke this guys forum priviledges please
04/03/2015 04:53 PMPosted by Socklordx
04/02/2015 11:32 AMPosted by Kìlljøy
Every healer having a dispell mega fail.


Someone revoke this guys forum priviledges please


Why? He's right.
I actually liked the ability prune because too many key binds make the game feel physically awkward to play on a basic gaming system.
04/02/2015 11:11 AMPosted by Renwlzwanabe
things will get better, it is only the first season afterall. I know the first season woes shouldn't be a thing after all these years but we can only go up from here bro.


omfg really this again? How many times are we going to hear this. You people just accept this now.
This isn't necessarily true. Rogues have always had the fewest abilities of any class and they've always been pretty engaging to play and one of the hardest classes to do well with. What matters is how well-designed and engaging the toolkit is. Rogues have two resources to manage and pretty much all of their abilities are conditional in some way. Contrast that with mop hunter. Mop hunter had a lot more buttons than it does now (and more buttons than rogues have ever had) but it was still really dumb to play because most of the conditional restrictions on hunters have been removed.

Opportunity cost, conditional requirements on abilities, and unique strengths and weaknesses are mostly absent from the game now, and I think that's the biggest issue. Mostly it has happened because of homogenization. Bring the player not the class was supposed to mean that all classes are useful.


I pretty much agree with all of this. Rogues are a good example of an engaging class where there are differences in how one approaches combat compared to PVE, while still using the same abilities. It is not about how many buttons one has to push, as much as it is about how they interact with each other and how they might be used in different contexts.

There are certain times it might be best to use evasion or cloak of shadows, when to vanish, when to blow your blind, etc. There are also choices you can make at any given time... such as using gouge and using sprint or burst of speed to get away for a restealth.

Also, being able to choose "combos" of abilities seems to feel satisfying (scatter into a trap comes to mind). On a mage, lining up a frostbolt followed by pet freeze and ice lance just FEELS good (compared to #blowingmyload CD macro) and if used at an opportune moment in the fight, you could have better results.

The opposite of this is when you have a rotation where you just hit whatever button lights up without any regard to what is going on around or what class you are facing.

I also miss the feeling of using abilities at the "right" time as opposed to most things being mashed when off CD. A very basic example that still exists is a mage's blink... you wait to use it until after a stun or possibly some gap closer followed up by a slow. You have to understand your opponent's strengths and weaknesses (as well as your own) to use it to its fullest potential. Also, rocks or varying terrain are a bad example of opportunity cost... but it's there... you get the point.

One sort of complaint that crops up when talking about WoD and the pruning, is less abilities that allow for counter play. The most common one concerns counters to hunter's dmg output with the removal of disarms.

Varying strengths and weaknesses keep the fights fun, regardless of how many random bgs you might run, there will always be something unique to encounter and try to deal with.

I understand that certain specs might (or have in the past) had weaknesses that are difficult to overcome, making them feel less competitive in general or against another particular class. However, this does NOT have to be solved by homogenization (everyone gets a stun, another gap closer, snare, etc.)

Lets say, for example, you have a class which has difficulty dealing with a stun. They don't necessarily have to have an identical sort of ability to press to deal with the situation. Good examples of unique methods to deal with it are thunderstorm (able to be used while stunned to knock melee back), or blink.

It also does not have to be an actual BUTTON to press... back in the oldschool talent trees, ele could take a talent that reduced dmg while stunned. It can be something passive, that just naturally gives specs strengths and weaknesses, while still allowing the spec to not feel helpless in the given situation.

Another hypothetical example... when you took intervene's ability to remove roots, lets say you still felt like they had too much trouble dealing with them. Instead of slapping something on them like a desecrated ground, it could be something passive.... like reduction in dmg taken while rooted, or slight reduction in duration until DR reaches a certain point, etc.
This post is the most accurate thing I've read on these Forums
I highly doubt Blizzard Devs will read any of this.....
@Lore
@Holinka
04/04/2015 11:17 AMPosted by Demfearslol
I highly doubt Blizzard Devs will read any of this.....


why would they lol
lore said he reads arena forums nearly every day but just doesnt post much

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