The State of the Game - and Ideas to Fix it

Arenas
Prev 1 11 12 13 62 Next
Blizzard didn't do anything regarding the 27k conquest vendor. Formal requests were made by the community and reached around 400 up votes, it was such an easy fix!

Doubt they will do anything about what is being mentioned here. At least not until this gets a massive amount of up votes / views. I think streamers such as Bajh, Cdew, Venruki, Dmachine should help promoting this post. Maybe there is hope but I doubt. PvP lead game designer's response shows they don't care, "Yes I saw the thread. Thanks for the feedback."
05/04/2015 12:46 PMPosted by Azi
I think streamers such as Bajh, Cdew, Venruki, Dmachine should help promoting this post


There has been support in this thread from several well known players, Cdew and Smexxin posted in here and also linked it on their twitter to increase visibility

edit: Vanguards too
~wall of text~

You don't need as much CC and defensives as other people because you can a. blink -> dash and heal yourself and b. get people from 100 to 20 or less in one stun.
Good read, hope something will be done.
05/02/2015 08:37 PMPosted by Soxo
An interrupt DR system could be added (full, then half, then immune, or some variation) to prevent casters from being completely locked out. Or interrupts could split into two different DR categories (either by magical/physical, or ranged/melee) in which getting hit by one type makes you immune to interrupts of that same category for the duration of its CD. This would also have the added benefit of encouraging melee/caster/healer comps. These options are far from perfect, but are a good start in shifting the game back towards casted spells.


This is no different then a lock getting shards for being interrupted. You are being rewarded for bad gameplay, rewarded with immunity to being interrupted. I would suggest removing pseudo-interrupts and increase the CD on melee interrupts to 20 second, range to 40seconds.

05/02/2015 08:41 PMPosted by Soxo
This has the benefit of being able to better balance PVE and PVE respectively,

Just a slight mix up, PVE and PVP

05/02/2015 08:42 PMPosted by Soxo
Want to encourage world PVP? Just look at what has been successful and what hasn’t. Wintergrasp, Tol Barad, and Ashran, while some have enjoyed it, the feedback seems to be overwhelmingly negative. These each have their own set of problems, but the common thread is this: creating a zone designed to encourage world PVP often creates an unfun zone revolving around non-PVP mechanics (vehicle combat, side objectives, etc.) and zergy and messy battles.


I have posted about this in the past. People take poorly to artificially triggered WPVP.

The BEST places for natural WPVP
(PRE CATA - no flying)
  • ALL of STV
    TM vs SS
    XRoads
    STV Arena
    Blackrock Mountain
    Tanaris(Pirate Boats)
    Ashenvale(Splintertree Post)
    Redridge
    Duskwood(Raven Hill Cemetary)
  • (POST CATA)
      Firelands Daily Hub
      Tol Barad Peninsula (Not the Event)
      Timeless Isle
      Isle of Thunder
      Spires of Arak (Axefall vs Southport) ~Rhukmar ruins this on occasion
      Talador (Voljin's Pride vs Fort Wrynn)


    The WORST places for natural WPVP
    Any zone with flying - Being on Emerald Dream, we are all about WPVP, #EDream on twitter and see what I mean.
    Nagrand(Draenor) - Whosoever idea it was to add mounted combat... please go work for Riot and ruin their !@#$. This was one zone we all had hopes for. The Halaa with no flying, middle of max level zone, no mans land and a natural hub for WPVP.

    My solution, analysis this list above and pull the common factors out. Better yet, make Tanaan this.

      None instanced zone
      2-3 Control Points, HKs in the CPs offer tokens to buy conquest flasks.
      No flying (or mounted combat)
      FFA Arena in the middle (With Chest event every 3 hours)
      The only 2K+ elite gear vendor beside the FFA Arena


    My ideal PVE Womb to grow a natural WPVP environment.
    please listen blizzard.
    Here's my direct problem with PvP: Being a melee class is pure hell unless you're a rogue.
    -Oh, you want to stick on someone, they have 30 different ways of getting away from you.
    -Oh, you're snared, ranged aoe stun/pet, well screw you.

    Bring back deadzones for hunters. Plain and simple, if you're giving them all these ways to kite, give them a weakness. Put back in deadzones. Removing that completely removed it taking any skill to play a hunter.

    I don't feel tanky, at all, as a plate wearer. I feel like a piece of paper that's been soaking in water for years. I do not feel like a badass paladin, warrior, or death knight. I don't feel like I can kick someone's !@# and take a beating at the same time and it be a close battle. I feel like...paper. I remember when it was hard to kill plate wearers. I remember when it was easier to kill healers and leather wearers. I have shunned the direction pvp has gone after TBC and WoTLK. It's pathetic, honestly.

    Forcing a warrior to sit in defensive stance while rogues, huntards, ,mages, warlocks, and pretty much every other class(except DKs), have passives that allow them to be tanky and still do tons of damage. Honestly, it's not fun playing a warrior, but I'll still do it. I don't care about the spell reflects gone, the kicks being gone, the stun char===actually, I care about that. Cdew made a very great point in his stream the other day...Rogues haven't lost anything, they just keep gaining and gaining, as well as huntards(sorry, I really dislike hunters).

    I honestly don't have any ideas other than bringing back the root/snare removal from intervene/safeguard. When you take away a melee class' only ability to really stick to people, who have various different ways to get out of your slow, you gut them even more. Would I like to place the blame solely on Holinka? Of course, because that would be easy. It's not just his fault, it's the entire pvp divisions fault that pvp is this way. Holinka is just the face of it.

    Edit: Also, the fact that Alliance racials weren't gutted like Hordes were, infuriates me to no end. This is also something that needs to be highly looked at.
    Maybe you should include the racial thing too, everyone going human for pvp isnt good for the game.
    plz fix game blizzard !
    Not enough depth in the game, and some classes do stupid burst...... like a fury warrior doing 100% hp in 2 seconds...... CDS are stupid atm some classes are completely out performing others...... just bad balancing and design
    05/04/2015 02:23 PMPosted by Tsmpikaboo
    plz fix game blizzard !


    see blizz.

    even pika thinks you should fix da game.
    Definitely worth the read.
    My problem with WoD is the selective application of principles like "toning down mobility and instant casts for casters". Theoretically toning down the arms race of gap closers and instant casts that have proliferated over the expansions sounds good and all, but that's not what happened.

    The WoD class design just played blindfolded darts with who these principles applied to. Locks, fire mages and ele shams got hit very hard by the toning down of mobility, instants and cc. For hunters, frost mages and melee, not so much.

    Classes like rogues spamming burst of speed just dance circles around casters who aren't Frost mages, They just feel like they're set three expansions back with far inferior utility vs WoD melee.

    As a result I just find the caster-melee dynamic very stale. If I want to play a melee I feel as though I have a lot of options with what I can roll. But if I want to play a caster? Frost mage is a tier 1 spec. Shadow priest maybe tier 2. But how do we have so many caster specs and so little options?
    05/02/2015 08:41 PMPosted by Soxo
    Don’t just look at how strong things are, but how good/bad design it is.

    This right here is my biggest concern. There's quite a bit of developer focus on performance, but it seems like that's all they're looking at. Balance is nice, but you need engaging/rewarding gameplay first. For a good starting point and likely a majority of bad mechanics, look at the pandaria talent system. Specs are now designed to be (nearly) mechanically complete, but talents were added on solely to give players something to choose. New ideas for this system are the source of many of the problems people are seeing: passive heals and damage reduction, ranged stuns, insane mobility, superfluous cooldowns.

    I feel like next season would be more interesting if they just disabled talents in pvp and worked out balance from there. I mean obviously there are a few odd talents that should be available--fear, step--but there's so much bad in this system I don't know how you could fix it.
    05/04/2015 02:10 PMPosted by Lathar
    Maybe you should include the racial thing too, everyone going human for pvp isnt good for the game.


    This was the main reason I canceled my subscription.

    Plz blizzard stop emulating and go back to innovating. Last xpac it was all about movement while casting and you did a complete 180 with this one. The garrisons were done extremely well, however the took a huge bite out of the social aspect because other big named games were coming out with these aspects at the time. They failed and now you are suffering as a result.

    $.02 rant:
    I've played a mage since vanilla, raiding MC and PvP'ing in Black Rock Mountain. I stopped playing frost when you introduced the pet however. Mages Don't Use Pets!!! conjured familiars or otherwise. It was one of my big deciding factors for choosing that class; especially over warlock. Nowadays, Frost mages now don't even use the pet except for the ranged nova. They run around with the pet on passive for 90% of the fight anyways, ditch the pet for frost, and have someone actually design the Fire and Arcane trees; don't just copy and paste them from the Frost tree please. I know you have the talent and resources to do it.
    This was a very interesting read. Thanks for taking the time to put this together, as it obviously took a lot of work. I'll try to respond to what I can.

    Regarding pruning: we actually see a lot of conflicting feedback here, even in this thread. Players want their CC effects back (even niche ones like Scare Beast), but feel that the game has too much CC. Or they want burst damage toned down, but want us to give back abilities that contribute to burst (such as Colossus Smash for Fury).

    For example, this thread makes the argument that, due to pruning, players don't have enough options to respond to something another player is doing, which leads to predictable gameplay. It also makes the argument that classes have too many defensive cooldowns, too much mobility, too many CC breaks, and too many interrupts. Don't those two arguments contradict each other? If not, why don't they? Honest question; if I'm just missing something here, I want to know about it.

    Don't get me wrong -- we're very open to feedback about which abilities you feel shouldn't have pruned, and what you feel is missing from your class. Just be aware that if you feel like you're missing another CC or defensive ability, you're essentially asking for us to put more of those in the game.

    I also think it's dangerous to make the argument that niche options add a skill element. There was an example given of a Priest using Mind Soothe to eat Spell Reflect. That's definitely a good trick that a skilled player would use, but I would stop to question what exactly it is about that trick that makes it stand out.

    At least in my opinion, the difficult part in that example is recognizing that Spell Reflect is active and quickly casting something unimportant. Mind Soothe made an obvious choice, when it was available. Now that it isn't, you have to think about the potential repercussions of whatever spell you cast being reflected. Doesn't that actually add more skill to dealing with Spell Reflect? Again, honest question.

    I'll also stress the importance of remembering that there are a lot of people who play this game, with a lot of different playstyles, in a lot of different communities and sub-communities. That's not just a PvE vs PvP thing -- it happens even within the PvP community. While a multi-rank 1 Gladiator might like having a few niche abilities they only use in specific circumstances, an entry-level PvP'er could be turned off by having to learn so much about other classes they've never played. A nerf to a class that's over-performing in Arenas could make them completely undesirable in RBG's. The challenge to our designers is in finding ways to accommodate all of those players as much as possible, which often means making hard decisions to make the game better for one group but potentially less enjoyable for another.

    Now, having said all of that, let me try to get one final point across: we agree that PvP in WoD is not the best it could be. We think we made a lot of great changes, and we've seen a lot more people trying out PvP in this season, but there were certainly a few missteps. Perhaps more importantly, there were some very valuable lessons learned for the future.

    I wouldn't expect any huge, game-redefining changes in Patch 6.2, but that doesn't mean we aren't listening and acting on your feedback, and taking it to heart as we make our plans for what comes next.
    05/04/2015 04:55 PMPosted by Lore
    This was a very interesting read. Thanks for taking the time to put this together, as it obviously took a lot of work. I'll try to respond to what I can.

    Regarding pruning: we actually see a lot of conflicting feedback here, even in this thread. Players want their CC effects back (even niche ones like Scare Beast), but feel that the game has too much CC. Or they want burst damage toned down, but want us to give back abilities that contribute to burst (such as Colossus Smash for Fury).

    For example, this thread makes the argument that, due to pruning, players don't have enough options to respond to something another player is doing, which leads to predictable gameplay. It also makes the argument that classes have too many defensive cooldowns, too much mobility, too many CC breaks, and too many interrupts. Don't those two arguments contradict each other? If not, why don't they? Honest question; if I'm just missing something here, I want to know about it.

    Don't get me wrong -- we're very open to feedback about which abilities you feel shouldn't have pruned, and what you feel is missing from your class. Just be aware that if you feel like you're missing another CC or defensive ability, you're essentially asking for us to put more of those in the game.

    I also think it's dangerous to make the argument that niche options add a skill element. There was an example given of a Priest using Mind Soothe to eat Spell Reflect. That's definitely a good trick that a skilled player would use, but I would stop to question what exactly it is about that trick that makes it stand out.

    At least in my opinion, the difficult part in that example is recognizing that Spell Reflect is active and quickly casting something unimportant. Mind Soothe made an obvious choice, when it was available. Now that it isn't, you have to think about the potential repercussions of whatever spell you cast being reflected. Doesn't that actually add more skill to dealing with Spell Reflect? Again, honest question.

    I'll also stress the importance of remembering that there are a lot of people who play this game, with a lot of different playstyles, in a lot of different communities and sub-communities. That's not just a PvE vs PvP thing -- it happens even within the PvP community. While a multi-rank 1 Gladiator might like having a few niche abilities they only use in specific circumstances, an entry-level PvP'er could be turned off by having to learn so much about other classes they've never played. A nerf to a class that's over-performing in Arenas could make them completely undesirable in RBG's. The challenge to our designers is in finding ways to accommodate all of those players as much as possible, which often means making hard decisions to make the game better for one group but potentially less enjoyable for another.

    Now, having said all of that, let me try to get one final point across: we agree that PvP in WoD is not the best it could be. We think we made a lot of great changes, and we've seen a lot more people trying out PvP in this season, but there were certainly a few missteps. Perhaps more importantly, there were some very valuable lessons learned for the future.

    I wouldn't expect any huge, game-redefining changes in Patch 6.2, but that doesn't mean we aren't listening and acting on your feedback, and taking it to heart as we make our plans for what comes next.


    stop holinkie from pruning pvp pls lore <3
    05/04/2015 04:55 PMPosted by Lore
    I wouldn't expect any huge, game-redefining changes in Patch 6.2,


    rip wws mws priests and ele/enh shamans
    05/04/2015 04:59 PMPosted by Velca
    05/04/2015 04:55 PMPosted by Lore
    I wouldn't expect any huge, game-redefining changes in Patch 6.2,


    rip wws mws priests and ele/enh shamans


    His reply makes my eye twitch, it's EXTREMELY easy to fix PvP, yet all they do is promise after promise with no actual changes.
    05/04/2015 04:55 PMPosted by Lore
    This was a very interesting read. Thanks for taking the time to put this together, as it obviously took a lot of work. I'll try to respond to what I can.

    Regarding pruning: we actually see a lot of conflicting feedback here, even in this thread. Players want their CC effects back (even niche ones like Scare Beast), but feel that the game has too much CC. Or they want burst damage toned down, but want us to give back abilities that contribute to burst (such as Colossus Smash for Fury).

    For example, this thread makes the argument that, due to pruning, players don't have enough options to respond to something another player is doing, which leads to predictable gameplay. It also makes the argument that classes have too many defensive cooldowns, too much mobility, too many CC breaks, and too many interrupts. Don't those two arguments contradict each other? If not, why don't they? Honest question; if I'm just missing something here, I want to know about it.

    Don't get me wrong -- we're very open to feedback about which abilities you feel shouldn't have pruned, and what you feel is missing from your class. Just be aware that if you feel like you're missing another CC or defensive ability, you're essentially asking for us to put more of those in the game.

    I also think it's dangerous to make the argument that niche options add a skill element. There was an example given of a Priest using Mind Soothe to eat Spell Reflect. That's definitely a good trick that a skilled player would use, but I would stop to question what exactly it is about that trick that makes it stand out.

    At least in my opinion, the difficult part in that example is recognizing that Spell Reflect is active and quickly casting something unimportant. Mind Soothe made an obvious choice, when it was available. Now that it isn't, you have to think about the potential repercussions of whatever spell you cast being reflected. Doesn't that actually add more skill to dealing with Spell Reflect? Again, honest question.

    I'll also stress the importance of remembering that there are a lot of people who play this game, with a lot of different playstyles, in a lot of different communities and sub-communities. That's not just a PvE vs PvP thing -- it happens even within the PvP community. While a multi-rank 1 Gladiator might like having a few niche abilities they only use in specific circumstances, an entry-level PvP'er could be turned off by having to learn so much about other classes they've never played. A nerf to a class that's over-performing in Arenas could make them completely undesirable in RBG's. The challenge to our designers is in finding ways to accommodate all of those players as much as possible, which often means making hard decisions to make the game better for one group but potentially less enjoyable for another.

    Now, having said all of that, let me try to get one final point across: we agree that PvP in WoD is not the best it could be. We think we made a lot of great changes, and we've seen a lot more people trying out PvP in this season, but there were certainly a few missteps. Perhaps more importantly, there were some very valuable lessons learned for the future.

    I wouldn't expect any huge, game-redefining changes in Patch 6.2, but that doesn't mean we aren't listening and acting on your feedback, and taking it to heart as we make our plans for what comes next.


    Great points, but you're missing the big one...that everything is based around CDs. Could we get an opinion/facts about that as well? Thank you.

    Join the Conversation

    Return to Forum