Reversing The Removal of Socialization In WoW

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05/07/2015 03:16 PMPosted by Aehl
Yeah, apparently having to actually speak to people to form a group would be unacceptable.


Yeah the days of screaming in /2 only to have the group fall apart after waiting so long was soooo successful...

My groups never fell apart. Maybe the common factor in all of yours was hmm... you
05/07/2015 02:27 PMPosted by Woopeisha
The 2015 Q1 earnings call has made it abundantly clear that Blizzard isn’t quite on the right track. Here are some changes that I’d like to see made to PVE, along with my reasoning:

1) Remove LFR
Blizzard, your numbers are lying to you. Just because LFR participation is high does not mean that it is a valued part of the WoW experience. WoW is an MMO and quite frankly LFR is not an MM experience. You join through a menu, you don’t need to speak with anyone and at the end the game arbitrarily decides whether or not to reward you with some poor loot. There is nothing multiplayer about looking at a potentially cool boss and then realizing that it has been dumbed down to the point where you have to have people actively trying to troll the raid in order to fail. Failure is fine, don’t treat everyone with kid gloves all the time and maybe they won’t get bored with the constant stream of instant gratification like they did this year.

Premade Group Finder on the other hand is a great tool. Remove LFR and let the LFG tool take its place. If you’re a casual player and you want to play the game on your own time and on your own terms, great! Sign up for one of the many runs available 24 hours a day and only commit the time that you feel that you can. LFG normal modes at least require you to have a social experience that is a lot closer to real raiding than the glorified single player experience that LFR is.

2) Make Mythic 15 Man
Let me start by saying that Mythic content this xpac is great. I love the consolidated raid size and I love the difficulty. Tier 17 has been in my opinion a pretty good tier. The problem is that no matter how good the content is, if it’s killing guilds left and right then no one is going to see it.

As the GM of a former 10 man guild that went 25 and then 20, I can tell you from first hand experience that getting to Mythic was no joke. Unfortunately, not every guild has a core as strong as ours and lots and lots of good former Heroic guilds have died as a result. Huge raid sizes are a thing of the past, the effort required to keep a 20 man guild alive is staggering, the recruitment alone is a part time job and that’s only one facet of 20 man guild management.

Let’s face it, people like smaller raid sizes, there is a reason 10 man was so popular, and not it’s not because it was easier. There is an intimate atmosphere that is lost with you move to larger raid sizes. 10 man was probably too small to properly balance but 15 man should be fine.

If you bring Mythic down to 15 man, you will still be able to expect that all Mythic guilds have at least one of each class, and you will still be able to deliver the high-quality content you have shown that you can deliver ever since that travesty of a raid Dragon Soul. You may not be able to get away with gimmicky mechanics like MC on Furnace, but those mechanics are gimmicks, I have no idea why you wanted to bring them back anyway except maybe as another play for BC nostalgia.

3) Make heroic dungeons hard again and remove the Dungeon Finder
No, don’t make them Cataclysm level hard, but do make them harder than the snooze fests they are now. Remove LFR and make heroic 5 mans drop LFR level loot. Make them a meaningful part of the gear progression path again, not something that you can skip with two BOEs and only run for legendary items.

At the same time remove the Dungeon Finder. Put the multiplayer back in the game. Add 5 man content to the Premade Group tool and let people form their own groups. Let them hop in mumble or vent and hangout as they kill internet bad guys. In fact, if you guys could figure out how to make a working in game voice tool that would be pretty swell. Valve recently made a change to the in game voice chat and now it rivals Mumble and TS in quality, I’m sure you guys could find a way to do something similar.

In Conclusion:
Ever since Wrath you guys have been slowly removing social experiences from this game and replacing them with menus. There is something perverse about an MMO that allows people to log into a single player zone and experience ghetto versions of the game’s content without actually having to interact with any other players. I refuse to believe that the player base of this game is so anti-social that you guys have been forced to cater to them for the past few years.

As someone who has played this game for a fairly long time, it’s not the moment that I killed the internet dragon that I am nostalgic about, it’s the process and the people that got me there that I remember fondly. Don’t deprive people of that experience, let them work together instead of herding them through the game like sheep. Maybe then they’ll have a reason to keep playing once they have hit max level.

TL;DR Remove the barriers that prevent people from having social experiences, let people interact with more than just menus in their garrison.


Here to help bury your terrible remove lfr post!!!
05/07/2015 03:34 PMPosted by Lornirdin
Take off the rose-colored glasses.

There are none on. You'd have to be blindfolded not to see that socialization is gradually being pruned from the game. There is something wrong when, in an MMO, you can enter and complete group content via a menu without even a single word being exchanged.

WoW used to REQUIRE you to interact with other players to get the cool stuff. And in my opinion, it should. Solo content is cool, but this isn't a single player game.

05/07/2015 03:43 PMPosted by Aehl
My groups never fell apart. Maybe the common factor in all of yours was hmm... you


I came in long after that stupidity went the way of the dodo.

Nice try though.

So you're talking like it would be terrible and you literally have no idea. People weren't so quick to leave groups back then because forming them wasn't so easy. They had to invest some time to form the group and reach the instance before they could even start. Leaving after 1 wipe wasn't really a common thing.
My groups never fell apart. Maybe the common factor in all of yours was hmm... you


I came in long after that stupidity went the way of the dodo.

Nice try though.
05/07/2015 02:27 PMPosted by Woopeisha
1) Remove LFR


05/07/2015 02:27 PMPosted by Woopeisha
3) Make heroic dungeons hard again and remove the Dungeon Finder


Why do you think doing these things will cause anything but the loss of more subscriptions?
But you *do* have to actually interact with other players. Reading comprehension, please.


..and how do you address badly imbalanced servers? Your way isnt better, just more TEDIOUS..not to mention the fact that you could spend an hour looking for a group that didnt have idiotic pre requirements

5 mans are dungeons.

LFR is a RAID.

Big difference.

LFR is and was my endgame for the last year or so, for a number of reasons. LFR has helped keep me sane in some very bad times. It has a purpose and a reason to be, and fills a need.

Removing it does not solve problems, it CREATES them.

In short:

NO.
I agree with everything you said pretty much. My friend list has diminished as more of these "social" tools are added. However, I actually enjoyed how hard Cataclysm dungeons were in the beginning.
Wierd. Despite all these tools that somehow ruin the social experience, I still manage to makes friends in game.

Maybe the problem is you have an awful personality and no one wants to socialize with you unless forced OP? Judging by the fact that you want to remove something people like to shove how you think WoW should be played down their throat, I'm gonna say I'm correct on you just being an unpleasant person.
05/07/2015 03:46 PMPosted by Aehl
.and how do you address badly imbalanced servers?

Oh my god... THE PREMADE GROUP TOOL IS CROSS REALM. How many times do I have to say that before you finally comprehend it?

05/07/2015 03:46 PMPosted by Aehl
Your way isnt better, just more TEDIOUS

Social interaction to form a group in an MMO is tedious... wow

05/07/2015 03:46 PMPosted by Aehl
not to mention the fact that you could spend an hour looking for a group that didnt have idiotic pre requirements

For a 5 man? No.

05/07/2015 03:46 PMPosted by Aehl
5 mans are dungeons.

LFR is a RAID.

Big difference.

O...k? The only difference is that one has more players. What's your point?
O...k? The only difference is that one has more players. What's your point?


...you dont know the difference between the need and purpose of 5 man content vs raid content? You DO know that the two are vastly different?

No?

Oh LORD....

THE PREMADE GROUP TOOL IS CROSS REALM.


So is the LFD tool. it isnt broken. It doesnt need fixing.

..the last few days have been a TESTAMENT to the saying 'if it aint broke dont fix it", or has the sudden sub loss of 2.9 million passed you by?
Way to read the post man. Solid work.


Hey, I read it all, word-for-word. And:

05/07/2015 02:38 PMPosted by Felryx
How to lose more subscribers:
05/07/2015 02:27 PMPosted by Woopeisha
1) Remove LFR


You said:


Premade Group Finder on the other hand is a great tool. Remove LFR and let the LFG tool take its place. If you’re a casual player and you want to play the game on your own time and on your own terms, great! Sign up for one of the many runs available 24 hours a day and only commit the time that you feel that you can. LFG normal modes at least require you to have a social experience that is a lot closer to real raiding than the glorified single player experience that LFR is.


That group finder can be so annoying. Blizzard wrecked Flex in WoD. First of all what seems to be 99% of the groups say "MS>OS" so forget about gearing an off spec. Okies then so many of them reserve stuff.. maybe it's just a pet peeve of mine but I hate RL's that reserve stuff, BoE's often get looted to RL or they are free roll so you see an upgrade for you go to someone else for AH fodder. If you wanna avoid all this looks like you have to become a raid leader yourself, lol. No one does Personal Loot because they are all convinced that with ML the heavens will open and purples will rain from the sky.

Oh about it being social. As a healer I have joined some PuGs in group finder and uttered not a word for hours, just like LFR.

With LFR I can easily gear an OS, no waiting around and /rolling after a boss, there's less chance for wipes, I dont have to worry about people reserving stuff, ninja'ing stuff...

Get rid of LFR and next quarter Blizzard will probably lose double what they recently published.

Remove LFR??? WHat a silly idea, Woopeisha.
05/07/2015 02:27 PMPosted by Woopeisha
TL;DR Remove the barriers that prevent people from having social experiences, let people interact with more than just menus in their garrison.


How is removing LFR removing a barrier? People who like LFR don't like to socialize with you. You probably don't want to socialize with them either.
Oh my god... THE PREMADE GROUP TOOL IS CROSS REALM. How many times do I have to say that before you finally comprehend it?


Sidenote: Be careful... that guy plays a dullard in hopes that you flip out on him and then he reports your posts.
05/07/2015 03:55 PMPosted by Aehl
So is the LFD tool. it isnt broken. It doesnt need fixing.

The difference is that you actually have to interact with other people... you know, the whole point of an MMO.

05/07/2015 03:55 PMPosted by Aehl
..the last few days have been a TESTAMENT to the saying 'if it aint broke dont fix it", or has the sudden sub loss of 2.9 million passed you by?

Wait, what? 2.9 mil subs lost tells us something IS broken and needs to be fixed...
The difference is that you actually have to interact with other people... you know, the whole point of an MMO.


..has anyone ever told you what happens when you try and FORCE socialisation onto other people? No?

Go find out.

What you propose is not a solution but the creation of a large number of problems.

So again.

No.

Wait, what? 2.9 mil subs lost tells us something IS broken and needs to be fixed...


LFR isnt part of that equation and never has been...unless you have concrete proof to the contrary. Protip: dont even try..the last guy who went down that road was last seen headed south with a DUNCE cap shoved firmly on his head,.
05/07/2015 02:46 PMPosted by Ðeathshadöw
05/07/2015 02:27 PMPosted by Woopeisha
The 2015 Q1 earnings call has made it abundantly clear that Blizzard isn’t quite on the right track.


as a shareholder, Im excited how the 2015 Q1 earnings have done.. This is a wonderfully run business, and they are making tons of profits. Q1 2015 has been a great quarter

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20150506006466/en/Activision-Blizzard-Announces-Better-Than-Expected-Quarter-2015-Financial

Theyre expecting to pull in 4.4 billion in revenue this year alone. That is superb


A lot of companies do wonderfully, and still are not happy with some of their divisions. Some companies experience record profits and dump some of their products.
05/07/2015 04:04 PMPosted by Aehl
..has anyone ever told you what happens when you try and FORCE socialisation onto other people? No?

If you don't want to be social, play Skyrim. This is an MMO. If you want to get much done at max level you should have to interact with other players to do it.

LFR and LFD are cancerous for this game. They promote a very unhealthy gameplay style that is not in the vein of what an MMO should be about

05/07/2015 04:04 PMPosted by Aehl
LFR isnt part of that equation and never has been...unless you have concrete proof to the contrary.

How do you know is isn't...?

And this thread isn't solely about LFR though you seem to think it is. It is about the removal of the social aspect of what is supposed to be a social game. An undeniable issue to which LFR, LFD, and garrisons are undoubtedly contributing factors, because they encourage anti-social behavior instead of the opposite.
05/07/2015 04:11 PMPosted by Woopeisha
05/07/2015 04:04 PMPosted by Aehl
..has anyone ever told you what happens when you try and FORCE socialisation onto other people? No?

If you don't want to be social, play Skyrim. This is an MMO. If you want to get much done at max level you should have to interact with other players to do it.

LFR and LFD are cancerous for this game. They promote a very unhealthy gameplay style that is not in the vein of what an MMO should be about

05/07/2015 04:04 PMPosted by Aehl
LFR isnt part of that equation and never has been...unless you have concrete proof to the contrary.

How do you know is isn't...?

And this thread isn't solely about LFR though you seem to think it is. It is about the removal of the social aspect of what is supposed to be a social game. An undeniable issue to which LFR, LFD, and garrisons are undoubtedly contributing factors, because they encourage anti-social behavior instead of the opposite.


Stop hitting the slow pitches.
How would removing lfd make people more social, using the premade finder would be essentially the same thing, minus the teleport to the dungeon.
05/07/2015 03:44 PMPosted by Sanyaza
05/07/2015 02:27 PMPosted by Woopeisha
1) Remove LFR


05/07/2015 02:27 PMPosted by Woopeisha
3) Make heroic dungeons hard again and remove the Dungeon Finder


Why do you think doing these things will cause anything but the loss of more subscriptions?


I can promise you it would cause my entire family to leave the game.

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