Have Arcane Mages gotten the short stick?

Mage
(I made this post over in the GD but I feel it's more appropriate here. This discussion also goes without taking into account that the entire talent tree is virtually Frost/Ice themed, wtf is up with that?)

I recently specced Arcane because when I think mage I always think "arcane". It just goes hand in hand to me. Upon choosing it though, I've become quite frustrated with what I see in the future. I'm now level 23 and I've got all my classes damage dealing spells (not counting talents). Am I the only one to whom that seems a little wrong?

For the sake of this we will also not include spells like "frostnova" or "cone of cold" either because while they deal damage they're not "damage dealing spells" per say.

Let's take a look at the specs.

Arcane

Arcane Blast
Arcane Missles
Arcane Barrage
Arcane Explosion (very situational)

Automatic spells (spells that come strictly with spec): 3 (kinda 4)

You have the option at the 75 Talent to choose - Nether Tempest/Supernova
You have the option at the 100 Talent to choose - Prismatic Crystal/Arcane Orb

Potential Total spells: 5 (or 6 if you still count Arcane Explosion)

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Fire

Fireball
Flamestrike
Inferno Blast
Pyroblast
Scorch
Combustion

Automatic spells (spells that come strictly with spec): 6

You have the option at the 75 Talent to choose - Living Bomb/Blastwave
You have the option at the 100 Talent to choose - Prismatic Crystal/Meteor

Potential Total spells: 8

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Frost

Frostbolt
Frostfirebolt
Blizzard
Frozen Orb
Ice Lance

Automatic spells (spells that come strictly with spec): 5 (Plus permanent pet?)

You have the option at the 75 Talent to choose - Frost Bomb/Ice Nova
You have the option at the 100 Talent to choose - Prismatic Crystal

Potential Total spells: 7

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Now, I know as far as damage dealing goes Arcane is pretty high and competes with Fire on nearly every PvE fight, as long as it doesn't include insane amounts of movement, in which case Fire wins out. That being said, even though dps is important, I'm not really looking at that.

I'm looking at fun. With this being the current state of the Arcane Mage, is this really any fun? Is having all your required spells to be an Arcane Mage by level 22 any fun? Is having 3 core spells and having low ability to deal damage in fights that require movement really so much fun? I'm not sure. I for one wish the Arcane mages had a little something else. I feel like that spec has gotten the short end of the stick somewhat. Any thoughts? Comments?
"Fun" isn't measured by how many spells you have, but how spells in your kit interacts with each other. Arcane doesn't have a lot of spells, but it doesn't need many. The much bigger problem is that Arcane's main gameplay is dependent on its mastery, which you don't get until level 80.

A car only has two "buttons" when you drive - an accelerator and a brake. That doesn't mean driving is boring.
05/20/2015 09:02 PMPosted by Komma
"Fun" isn't measured by how many spells you have, but how spells in your kit interacts with each other. Arcane doesn't have a lot of spells, but it doesn't need many. The much bigger problem is that Arcane's main gameplay is dependent on its mastery, which you don't get until level 80.

A car only has two "buttons" when you drive - an accelerator and a brake. That doesn't mean driving is boring.


Even in terms of interaction the Arcane class is pretty weak. Cast barrage when the stacks of Charge get too high, and then Missiles whenever it's procc'd. WHOA, so much interaction, right? Besides, with more overall spells comes more possibilities with interaction. That's a pretty bad argument you've made.

You're saying it doesn't "need" many for it to be competitive and do good damage. I'm not talking about damage. We don't need anything else to do our job fine. We do however need something to be more fun.

P.S. Most people would agree a manual is a lot more fun to drive than an automatic.
That's why I said the main interaction is the mastery (Mana Adept). That's when you start having to manage mana. Until you get to level 80, it's basically as you said - blast, missile, barrage, rinse repeat.

Don't worry about a class when you're at level 24. You don't have the full picture yet.
05/20/2015 09:29 PMPosted by Komma
That's why I said the main interaction is the mastery (Mana Adept). That's when you start having to manage mana. Until you get to level 80, it's basically as you said - blast, missile, barrage, rinse repeat.

Don't worry about a class when you're at level 24. You don't have the full picture yet.


I know how it works. Once again, it doesn't really add any fun and flare to the spec, either. The basic idea is to keep yourself at high mana until Evocation is about to come off cd and then you do max damage possible without worrying about mana.

Mana Adept doesn't change that hardly at all, just makes you put out more damage in the weaker part of your rotation (the part when we can't just spam Arcane Blast without worrying about mana).
Combustion is fire's cooldown. There's no reason to include it if you're not going to count Arcane Power and Icy Veins too. Also, why do you feel Arcane Explosion is situational but Flamestrike isn't?

Fireball and Scorch is an either/or thing, really. You're only using Scorch if you're moving and don't have any, or don't spec Ice Floes. Its damage is piss-weak and is mainly only there for crits
05/20/2015 10:49 PMPosted by Sarm
Combustion is fire's cooldown. There's no reason to include it if you're not going to count Arcane Power and Icy Veins too. Also, why do you feel Arcane Explosion is situational but Flamestrike isn't?

Fireball and Scorch is an either/or thing, really. You're only using Scorch if you're moving and don't have any, or don't spec Ice Floes. Its damage is piss-weak and is mainly only there for crits


Okay so take out Combustion and Fire is still at 7.

Feel that Flamestrike is LESS situational than Arcane Explosion. Like Flamestrike is fine for aoe situations. Arcane Explosion, much like Holy Nova, is extremely difficult to find a situation to use for. In fact, most will probably tell you there isn't a situation in which it should be used.

So what if Scorch is for only moving or if you haven't spec'd Ice Floes or something. It's still an option you have, something that adds some dynamic to your class. Arcane's got jack crap.

I personally think having a Scorch like spell even if it was worse would still be fun to have on an arcane mage.
Flamestrike's absolutely less situational than Arcane Explosion. It's not even functional as a good AoE until level 92+ whenever you get the perk to remove the cooldown on it. Until then, you can cast it once every 12 seconds and then you have your thumb up your !@#. Meanwhile the arcane mage casts Arcane Explosion over and over, and can generate or refresh arcane charges to use with Arcane Barrage for cleave or just to keep it from falling off so you can go straight to using stronger Arcane Blasts once the number of enemies drops enough to where you don't really want to use AE anymore.

Anyway, AE should be fine to use for any groups of 5 or more enemies. It's a little behind maxed out AB at 4 enemies, but it won't destroy your mana so it's probably fine there too.

If you really think fire's more appealing because it has an extra spell, go ahead and try it out while the respec costs are low, but I don't think you'll find that you actually like it. :p

Edit: By themselves, Arcane Explosion is about 3.7 times stronger than Flamestrike because of its ability to be spammed.
So short end of the stick depends on spell quantity? I disagree on the premis of your entire argument. Are arcane mages short changes in damage? No. The only handicap I see is that the other specs have a stun.
Quality not Quantity, brosef.

I'd trade half those Fire spells for Arcane Explosion :).
It was hard getting thru your really long post to where you say "well, forget all the above. Is it FUN?"

Yes, it's fun. Just started playing my mage again (left off last year he was 86). I've levelled 7 other classes to 100, so this is the 8th one going thru MoP then WoD zones and quests. Done 6 levels so far and it is definitely fun.

05/20/2015 08:51 PMPosted by Lilzhitz
Is having all your required spells to be an Arcane Mage by level 22 any fun?


The talents I got at 45, 60, 75 were all new spells. Ones that I use a LOT. Same with 3 major glyphs.

05/20/2015 08:51 PMPosted by Lilzhitz
Is having 3 core spells and having low ability to deal damage in fights that require movement really so much fun?


So much fun? Absolutely. How many core spells do you think I use ALMOST ALL THE TIME in my Rogue? my feral druid? my warrior? my Paladin? For all of them it's 3 to 5, not counting a couple only used at the end of each fight or the beginning (charge, etc.). But the core rotation? DKs maybe 6. Rogues maybe 3.

In every class I have 20-30 icons on my 4 taskbars, with 25 key combos I can use and a mouse to click the rest. But for every class, most of them are used zero times in almost every fight.

That doesn't mean there's no strategy. It doesn't mean every fight is similar. The mix of how many enemies, of what levels, with what skills and attack methods means there are at least a dozen different ways I fight them with my mage.

And fights that require movement? Maybe I'm a class that isn't suited for that. Why is that less fun? Each class is different, and gets played differently.

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