Cataclysm Shadow Priest PvE Guide

Priest
Prev 1 2 3 4 26 Next
This shadow priest guide (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/820371-Newnoise-s-Shadow-Priest-Guide) seems to suggest that mastery is barely worse than crit in heroic T11 gear. The stat weights on there are also without the periodic damage increase from Dark Intent (if you're lucky enough to have a lock with it).
With all the posts regarding Mind Spike, there is some math on shadowpriest.com I believe, and I'll look into it and post it here if I do find it. But from what I've noticed in my own playstyle because I'm more of a tester than a number cruncher, Mind Spike in the rotation to down a single target boss fight will result in lesser DPS and you going OOM much faster.

With Mind Spike spam and instant MB crits, our DPS may skyrocket during the beginning. But for static overall DPS and to sustain ourselves, I'm about 99% sure that DoTs + MF and MB are still the ideal option. GC said himself that they didn't want Mind Spike to overtake the spriest rotation PvE-wise.

01/03/2011 8:40 AMPosted by Shalarlight
ok, but shadow fiend is a cool down, once per fight on i dunno maybe 99% of fights, so what about the REST of the fight when shadowfiend is not available. and even still If I have to recast DP and VT anyways, I dont see how taking 1.3 seconds to toss 40k in is going to reduce my damage, not to mention shadow fiend still does dmg with no dots up, so i guess I dont see the point of your reply at all.


The talent called Sin and Punishment reduces our Shadowfiends CD by 10 seconds everytime it crits. I find myself popping it about 2-3 times on ~3-4 minute boss fights. And its definitely more than 1.3 seconds. Since your Mind Spike is 1.3 seconds, I'm assuming your VT is also 1.3 seconds. So 1.3 second cast VT -> 0.5 GCD -> Instant DP -> 0.5 GCD -> Instant SW:P results in almost 2.5 seconds of downtime and barely any DPS. Also take into account, you have no Evangelism stacks, Shadow Orbs, or Empowered Shadows up.

01/03/2011 4:58 AMPosted by Bommi
In PvE I've been using Mind Spike to purposely wipe DoT's from my target. I've seen a few instances where I need to reduce my DPS to nothing, and the damage of mind spike is less than letting my DoT's run their course, especially if they were just recast. Some examples of this being in the Maloriak fight to be careful not to push him to 25% before his second green phase, or in the Omnitron Defense System to not let VT and SwP wreck the shields killing raid members.


Yeah, that's why I meant situational :) I'm thinking about working on a guide about tips and tricks on certain Cataclysm raids/fights since I remember seeing one on Shadowpriest.com for ICC awhile back.

Also about being under hit cap, yes I've seen some posts as well regarding not being hit capped being okay and Haste > hit, but there was no math backing it up. Still, with all the spirit gear floating around and the option to reforge into hit/spirit, it shouldn't be a problem. I gotta say that being a bit under hit cap would be perfectly fine though if you can't avoid it.
Edit - Could you possibly find the links and post em here? I'd be interested if you have posts with math.
01/03/2011 6:55 AMPosted by Upd
Unless Blizzard has changed it, 'Enchant Weapon' should be able to put the enchant on either a 1Her or a 2Her.


Doh, yeah thanks for pointing that out. This was updated from an old old shadowpriest guide I had from 3.3 in WotLK, so some things might have been left behind. <3
01/03/2011 12:37 PMPosted by Rayocell
This shadow priest guide (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/820371-Newnoise-s-Shadow-Priest-Guide) seems to suggest that mastery is barely worse than crit in heroic T11 gear. The stat weights on there are also without the periodic damage increase from Dark Intent (if you're lucky enough to have a lock with it).


Updated yesterday :)

(Scale is based off the scale from Simcraft ran by Kilee)
Intellect: 1.0 (Everything is compared to Int)
Spellpower: 0.8087
Haste: 0.4696
Crit: 0.3703
Mastery: 0.3326
The guide I linked has these as the stat weights:

Scaling Factors Int Spirit SP Hit Crit Haste Mastery
Scale Values 2.9607 1.1188 2.3045 1.1152 1.2151 1.5745 1.1592
Normalized 1.0000 0.3779 0.7784 0.3767 0.4014 0.5318 0.3915
The talent called Sin and Punishment reduces our Shadowfiends CD by 10 seconds everytime it crits. I find myself popping it about 2-3 times on ~3-4 minute boss fights. And its definitely more than 1.3 seconds. Since your Mind Spike is 1.3 seconds, I'm assuming your VT is also 1.3 seconds. So 1.3 second cast VT -> 0.5 GCD -> Instant DP -> 0.5 GCD -> Instant SW:P results in almost 2.5 seconds of downtime and barely any DPS. Also take into account, you have no Evangelism stacks, Shadow Orbs, or Empowered Shadows up.



I did forget about Sin And Punishment, I am a healer picking up shadow as off spec :D, however I still think my point holds that shadow fiend is shadow fiend with or without dots, unless I am missing a buff to shadow fiend from SW:p or something.

I agree there is a second of downtime using mind spike that is not there not using mind spike.
I guess the difference in reapplying VT when it is still up is that does not clip the current tick, so you could infact be cutting out a 10-12k crit during that down time (same for other dots too), and I was running it my head (not at game machine) as the neccessary reapplication going either way as a fresh tick.

As for the damage buffs, shadow orbs get eaten anyways by the mind blast, you my have dark angel up still (only way i would consider the MS) and the MB buff will be back around the same time as the first DOT tick.

Only reason I have been trying this is my mana is in no way a problem compared to Holy and my gear has alot of spirit on it still as I am grabbing pieces to replace so of the extra spirit with crit and haste. When I am playing shadow I have been indulging a bit.

Also was not considering the fact that if you MS then have to move, you might as well have died and accepted BRez for all the dps you are doing.

All that being said.....I still love my big flashy crit that makes me giggle, though I know now it is a big flashy crit that makes me giggle and little more.
Off of shadowpriest.com:

"Stat Scaling Values:
For the purpose of this list, spellpower, crit, haste, mastery, spirit, & hit are compared against intellect. This is a big change from prior releases which were normalized to spellpower. Intellect is given a value of 1.0 and other stats are given a relative value. It is important to note that these relative values are NOT constant. They change based on the gear and spec of the priest"


Scaling values have never been consistent throughout the game (See italicized^). However, they are all generally the same, having Haste > Crit > Mastery.
Updated stat scale.. Again. With a few back takes and reevaluating, I realized that the general stat scale should reflect and be compared through using the BiS shadowpriest gear available - Heroic T11 and other Heroic gear obtained from raids.
01/03/2011 9:07 AMPosted by Shalarlight
You would need to do 3 mind spikes in order to get that instant mind blast and have it crit. Each application of mind spike gives you a 30% chance. It would be interesting to test it out, though. I just wonder if it would eat up too much mana.



I dont think you want to stack 3 times, just casting mind spike once is enough to make the mind blast instant, and the +30% crit is just cake.

I use the 3 stacks of MS crit buff on "dry" adds with no dots, 3 Mind spikes and a instant MB crit lead into SW: D pretty nicely, though it is still bad efficiency compared to alot of classes on adds. Speaking of which, how do you ramp up on adds, i feel woefully underpowered when adds start showing up.

Edit: I realized that it would take 2 MS casts to reduce MB cast time 100%, so maybe this is why this is not as good as I was imagining, though, I can still see a place for a chance at a 40k crit, increased crit chance on next MB and along with decreased casting speed, all at a time when you would recast 2 out of your 3 dots anyways. So in short I probably would still only cast 1 and hope for the whopper crits.


It depends on your crit, you might need more then one stack to get it to do so. I don't use it on bosses regardless, I don't see the point right now. I play with it on trash, though. I kind of hope Blizzard retools mind spike a bit so it can be more useful in our rotation.
I'm pretty sure during Beta GC mentioned that Blizzard did not intend Mind Spike to be used in our main rotation.

Edit - Yes, I am serious about keeping this guide up and running, and also updated. Will clean up what I can tomorrow so its easier on the eyes.
Haotududis,

Thanks for the guide, its easy to read, and informative.
Glad I could help :)

And I hate how I'm still seeing multiple threads being made when I'm assuming this has most of the answers on the first few posts :/
Agreed, much of it is covered very well here, as well as some extra info i found to be excellent from other posters.
01/03/2011 1:18 PMPosted by Rayocell
The guide I linked has these as the stat weights:

Scaling Factors Int Spirit SP Hit Crit Haste Mastery
Scale Values 2.9607 1.1188 2.3045 1.1152 1.2151 1.5745 1.1592
Normalized 1.0000 0.3779 0.7784 0.3767 0.4014 0.5318 0.3915


^ This.

This isn't WoTLK anymore. The stat weights clearly show hit to be inferior to the other stats. Shadow priests aren't as penalized for their spells not landing as other caster classes.

It is no longer required to maximize DoT uptime by waiting to reapply dots at the last second so as to not clip the damage from the last tick. DoT's continue to roll on through reapplication. So if you recast a DoT and it misses, you simply recast it. You lose a global here and there.

Look at it like this. Let's say instead of hit capping, you sit 5% below (12%+ hit). Now you're at 95% instead of 100%. This means that roughly 1 out of every 20 spells will miss. Now go run through a DPS parse and see what spells are cast and how much. It's fairly obvious that the majority of this misses a shadow priest will have will end up being a mind flay tick here or there.

Even if it's not a mindflay tick and it ends up being a DoT, it's a global to reapply, and most aren't waiting until the very last second to reapply since it's not necessary for DPS maximization. It's safe to say that most DoT's are now being reapplied in the 3-5 second time window, so missing a dot and reapplying means you still maintain desired up time. Sure, you may take a slight mana loss - but you get a DPS gain out of it (which is what DPS are looking for, no?).
You do realize that that scale is based off a Simcraft, correct?

http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft/wiki/Priest_Shadow_T11_372

On that Simcraft, it is the said to be BiS gear for shadow priests in Heroic gear and Heroic T11. If you scroll down, you'll see that these values were calculated with the priest already at hit cap.
Thank you for the great info!
Hate getting info piece by piece from different posts and it's all here
TY again!
Congrats on getting this stickied. Well deserved.
Very well written guide, my hat off to you sir!
I didn't know power torrent adds 450 haste to two handers :3

On a better note, great guide and grats on sticky.
Thanks everyone :)

And thanks for pointing that out, Sly. Just copy/paste'd something from the 1h enchant description, didn't realize that I accidentally copied over Hurricane's description.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum