How can people learn?

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01/06/2011 9:52 AMPosted by Lunartic
Maybe Blizzard could add dungeon tool tips for new players?

On another Note DBM addon is a nice little feature when it comes to boss encounters. I'm kind of curious of what your asking them that they refuse to help you.

I'm curious at what he's asking as well now that you mention it.

As harsh as I am to someone that says, "I've never need here. What does this boss do?"

I'm pretty open to a clarity question such as, "At what number do we get out of the beam again?"

Having no clue and having some clue then asking for clarity are 2 totally different mentalities for me when it comes to a response.

The first gets you booted.
The second gets an answer cause I as least know you tried to learn the fight before you actually queued up to come along.
Last week I zoned into Stonecore, and we were beating our heads on the wall because the tank kept getting destroyed by Ozruk. He felt so bad for the wipes, that he apologized and dropped group so we could "get someone better", even though nobody was berating him for anything. I felt bad, regardless :/

I've been grouped with 2 tanks in the last 3 days who didn't know the instances we were in (SFK and TotT). The group helped them through and we made it through both instances pretty easily. All hope is not lost!
Maybe Blizzard could add dungeon tool tips for new players?

On another Note DBM addon is a nice little feature when it comes to boss encounters. I'm kind of curious of what your asking them that they refuse to help you.

DBM doesn't always help you when you don't know whatever the ability or debuff you're being warned about is going to do or exactly how to avoid getting hurt by it. For example, when you fight Garfrost, it tells you when he's about to throw a boulder and to move. It also gives you alerts about permafrost, but it doesn't tell you that you can hide behind that boulder to get rid of it. No one ever actually did that either, so I thought that I was supposed to dispel it. You can probably guess how that worked out.

you just have to take your time and read guides and more guides... practically you have to read every race, class, and every class specs if you really want to learn everything. its tedious and it's not worth it. and its just a game.
I don't really agree that people should have to look things up on the internet to do dungeons. I learn best by just doing the dungeons and while I am willing to look up raid boss strategy I am not spending an hour researching to do a dungeon.

That being said if my group runs into a boss they can't do I do go and read up and relay that to the group. I wish it wasn't necessary because much like reading the walkthrough of a game I feel it lessens the experience.

I have been in very few groups where no one was willing to explain things. Usually if someone knows what they are doing they are quite eager to avoid an avoidable wipe by sharing what they know. I have never been kicked for saying I have never been in a dungeon before or have not done it on heroic yet. Some people will be jerks but don't let the jerks make you feel no one will help.
I read up strategies and watched videos before attempting all normal and heroic dungeons. So far 95% of my normal and heroic pugs have been successful.
This game doesn't need segragation it need less selfserving asshats. People join guilds to have people to play with. Instead they get, Mr. LEETNESS. Play together as a team. It's not carrying someone. It's helping your team get better. Geez, I thought I was the noob.
Come on with all ya all's vast intellect and leetness, you can get this.
TEAM 4 letters only 3 and 2 more than I(1)AND Me (2).
My best advice to you is find a good social or leveling guild. Then just run with the guild :D
01/06/2011 8:31 AMPosted by Polymorpher

The internet has much better resources for learning than in game.

Not everyone learns from just watching or reading about a fight. They can watch videos and read until they are blue in the face and until they actually see the fight they don't get it.

Difference in learning styles. Run across it all the time with guildies, some read about it and have it, others need to see the fight a time or two for it to make sense.
01/06/2011 8:50 AMPosted by Stren
For low level instances? Just go in and do them without telling them it's your first time. I did that with my tank and never had an issue, even without reading up on the instances at all. Just make sure you know how to play your class and are specced for the role you want to play.

If it's for high level instances, then read up on them and watch the videos. If you're nervous about tanking it, then run it as DPS until you know the instance.

Either way, don't tell the group it's your first time. Just prepare yourself ahead of time and it probably won't be obvious that it's your first time. That's what I do.

I don't mind if someone tells me they don't know the dungeon. I have no problem walking them through it, helping them learn it, giving a few pointers. Not all people learn from just watching and/or reading about them, some actually have to have hands on experience. Difference in learning styles and as long as they are trying to learn, I am willing to help.

People seem to forget not everyone was born with an video game attached to them, for some playing is not as natural as for others and it might take a little longer for them to learn, but once they learn they have it.
Nobody should be forced to read guides and guides to enjoy the game. This is a multiplayer game based on cooperation, it's not a job.
01/06/2011 11:45 AMPosted by Gahk
Nobody should be forced to read guides and guides to enjoy the game. This is a multiplayer game based on cooperation, it's not a job.

that's the risk you take with playing a game that is over six years old for the first time. A majority of the people already know what to do and are used to most people knowing what to do. The others in the party might not enjoy having to explain everything to every new person that comes along, just as the new player may not enjoy having to read any guides.

My personal opinion is if someone asks for help or a guidance in a low level dungeon then that is understandable and it doesn't take long to explain what to do, as long as they listen to the advice. However I can also see the other side of that as I mentioned above. I don't usually mind helping people out, and even port people for free if they don't mention paying, as long as I don't have to travel to them.

TLDR: I personally Pay It Forward, but I can understand why some people might not.
01/06/2011 8:30 AMPosted by Greendeath
How are people expected to learn new content, roles, skills, if the ones that can help refuse to?

It makes me sad to hear that you've had trouble finding players to help you through the new dungeon content. Even so, it's important to keep in mind that altruism isn't a universal trait and not everyone may feel compelled to lend a helping hand.

Try not to let that limit you, though. There are several ways to learn new fights, and none of them is really more correct than the other. While asking others for assistance in-game is perhaps the most straightforward, you do have other options available to you. For example, trial and error can be a great educator. I don't know exactly how much experience you've had with certain encounters, but after you after you complete a fight or wipe to it, trying looking over your Combat Log to see what happened. This way, you can find out what abilities a boss has, how much they hit for, and what kind of spells other players in your group might be interrupting (certain AddOns can help you parse this data). You could also check out online material, like dungeon guides or encounter videos. Or, since you seem to be both an articulate and compassionate person, you may want to reach out to your fellow players in the Dungeons and Raids forum, perhaps even your realm forum. Heck! You might even find a great guild to join that approaches the game the same way that you do.

Now, I know you're a bit dismissive of the idea, but guilds can be a wonderful resource, as well as a lot of fun! Simply because you've encountered a few unhelpful players in your journeys doesn't mean that all players behave similarly. In fact, I'd argue that most players are kind, fun-loving, helpful people, and having a guild full of individuals with which to communicate and explore content together can be invaluable. Don't write off the possibility completely. Look outside the box. Keep your options open. Etc.

Extremely long post short: Everyone learns in different ways, and it's possible that another method suggested in this thread might work out better for you than having to rely on party chat. Just the same, they might not work, and that's okay. Don't be afraid to try them out, though. You never know, you could find that an alternative is more enjoyable. :)
01/06/2011 7:49 PMPosted by Heartfire
In fact, I'd argue that most players are kind, fun-loving, helpful people

I wish they were, but let's be reasonable. This is World of Warcraft. There are a lot of bad apples. Not to say there are no kind people playing -- just that the jerks really seem to outnumber the nice ones.

This. The OP mentions that people are unwilling to teach, but I find that any time I try and help, the person I'm helping just gets all pissy and is unwilling to learn. It works both ways. There are some people that won't teach at all, and that's lame, but there's plenty that just don't want to listen.

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