How can people learn?

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OP doesn't understand that most people don't play this game to teach others. That's just a fact of life in WoW.

You are 100% better off going to help sites and doing some independent reading than fishing for an answer here, or on your server's trade chat. Most of the time you're going to get a joke answer, or someone will tell you to do what I'm saying right now.
I've thought about this a fair bit, and yeah, it's rough. The problem is, for every player who wants to learn, and understands that they perhaps are underskilled/geared for content, there's at least one other (often two or three) that just plain don't care, aren't willing to listen, learn and understand and make running dungeons hard on everyone (the vote:kick feature helps will this to a certain degree.)

How about a title, or something in game, that marks you as a player requesting a bit of help? A pseudo-mentoring system, have it moderated by the GM's (sorry, more work for you guys, but its the best solution I can come up with) so that the system isn't abused. Have a global chat channel where people can go "look, can someone help me learn CC in this fight" and you can nut it out with another player.

There are many players willing to learn, and Im sure there are many players willing to teach, the problem seems to be that they're having trouble finding eachother. The new guild leveling system has made this a little harder, you can't really advertise as a guild who focuses on teaching encounters when the draw for being in a larger guild with the whole gambit of perks is going to win over most folks.
I agree with Lilyrra. I have had bad experiences. I once got vote kicked for being low dps (despite being higher than one of the other dps) because I was demonology (still am) and demonology was 'bad dps'. But I've had many great moments too. Right when Cata hit, I had a group that got Heroic Deadmines and NOBODY knew any of the fights. So I watched a video for every fight, explained what to do to the whole party. We attempted the bosses, wiped on several of them (6 times on foe reeper), but in the end we finished the instance as the exact same 5 man part as we started with. Nobody complained, everyone was contributing with our thoughts on how to improve on our previous attempts or adjust since our comp wasn't quite the same as the video's I was watching.
I do find it sad that a lot of people are so... jaded. Sadly enough, it is most likely those of you who are complaining about the community that lead to it's sorry state. If you are so cynical of your fellow players when someone says 'I don't know this fight' if you're not kicking him, you're agreeing with that vote. I'm sure this doesn't apply to everyone, and may in fact apply to noone in this thread but I challenge you, if you find the community lacking, improve it by being a better part of it. And if you really are that disgusted by it... leave. If you can't help make the gaming experience better for everyone, and can only contribute negativity. Just leave. It's obviously vexed you so.
I personally would like to thank Lilyrra for her faith in people. Her constant contribution to this thread attests greatly to her claim that there is still hope as she is, in fact, hope itself.
"Why should people learn ?" is a better question.

Ghostcrawler told us healers we needed to re-learn to heal to have more fun. Because apparently being yelled at by the group is tons of fun.

He said we should re-learn to play our class, organise ourselves and communicate to have more fun in heroics.

So I say no. I don't want to learn to have fun. I want fun now. And I'm way over 30 and not being a kid. I'm just not paying to have a second job at home.

Honestly, people will learn if they want to. Some really don't care and would rather stand in the fire, die, go AFK for 5 minutes, come back accept their res, get their points and loot and leave. I did not walk into any of the heroics without first looking them up online for a general idea of what's going on, and quite frankly you should do this if at all possible. It doesn't take a lot of time, just Google - "Dungeon Name" wowpedia - done. It is however unfortunate others have a lack of patience to at least explain the encounters to people unwilling to spend 3 minutes to look them up. Not sarcasm, both people are doing it wrong.
I help people as often as I can, but there's only so much you can do for some people.

I helped out a low 70's player in trade chat ask about Protection Paladins, I happened to be on my Priest at the time so I told him to go look up my alt's name on the armory, get his spec, and then told him about the abilities to use. He was much appreciative of my help and I bet he's doing pretty decent now.

Almost every time I do a PuG Heroic for VP I ask if anyone doesn't know the boss encounter. If someone says they don't I explain it to them. I don't go into huge details, but enough of what they need to do, not do, and watch out for.

But let's be honest, overall this game is not hard. Despite it's changes to healing, talents, everything else with this expansion. But somehow there are players SO bad, that they are the ones making this game hard. It's those people that annoy the ever living piss out of me and makes me not want to help anyone ever again. I continue to do so, and I just complain to myself, as some of these types of people are in my guild as well.

I've been in a hardcore raiding guild before, and I know the environment. It does take skill and knowledge of playing your class, as well as knowing what goes on around you. But all that comes down to is willingness to learn and awareness to your surroundings. Both should be things people put effort into their real lives, so why is it so hard for them to do the same in a game? So it's beyond frustrating when you end up grouping with people that constantly ask what to do, how to play, run the wrong direction, don't improve, etc.

tl;dr: Too many idiots play this game expecting too much out of it or too much from other players to carry them through it. If you don't know how to play your class go read, watch videos, ask on a forums. If you don't know an encounter for a dungeon or raid, go read, watch videos, or ask on a forums. This game is easy, please stop making it so hard on everyone by being unwilling to learn and improve yourself. But if you must, at least ask for help when needed so that you can be guided in the right direction.
I know you said pls don't say "Join a guild" as a answer, but it the most honest truth... Join one or you won't learn. Ppls in game don't have respect to those they don't know, and beside. Truth be told I know horde and alliance. Horde players are not as nice as alliance. Sorry it very true: playing on several def servers and talk to many players. Horde are great players, but are not nice and they don't help much. They are mostly Teenagers or college Men and women. So if your a young player. You well find it hard to connect with them as a person. Back to what I was saying though.. the only way to know your class and to start from lvl 1 to 85. During that time join a guild and do stuff with them only. Ask them question and if there true guild mat like I have. They well give you help and answers. Also the Bonus for just joining a guild with help you over all in time. Personal advise (so don't take it hard) and my experience with Players. Best of luck
I am so confused. On the forums, yes, there are very few horrible people. Some of you guys that post though are extremely intelligent.

When you go for a drive, do you look for the idiots that cut you off, and complain about them at your local police department, or do you actually let them be idiots, and learn just watch out for these people?

When you are at a grocery store. That person that yells at the cashier, because his 12 pack costs 1 dollar more than what the sign stated, when the cashier had nothing to do with it. Do you complain to the general manager that someone else was being stupid?

What about that person that complains that pickles came on their burger? When in fact they did not order it special, but they are only complaining just trying to get free food.

All the above can be solved with a calm voice, and clear thinking.

There are so many different real life situations that can be applied to this game. If we cant do anything about the people above, how are they supposed to control the reactions from in the game?

You cant, you either sink or swim in life. The same is with the game. If you feel that end game and heroics and raids are the end all of this game, you are wrong. There are many diffrent ways to succeed, and excel. If you choose to skip regular instances because they are to easy, have no rewards and jump into heroics expect it to be difficult.

This game will always be a grind. At the end of the grind, people complain because they are bored.

TL;DR What do you guys want, a grind or to be bored silly after a month and a half? We all will get there, and Cata will become stale. Please dont force that time any earlier.

01/20/2011 7:28 PMPosted by Lylirra

I crafted them out of good nature, love, patience, elbow macaroni, and glitter. I'd make you some, but their power comes from within.

Little late... but sounds like we got the inside look at the next gimmick for the Blizzard Store.
My SO was kicked from the wailing caverns for being "too low dps". That's right, the wailing caverns, how can a player even learn to play the game when jerks and elitists are booting from the lowest tier instances even available in the game?
I liken WoW to sports. You have teams and a common goal. Sometimes you practice on your own and other times you meet up to play. Some people get very serious. But in the real world, there are often clinics or classes to teach you to play better. Could WoW incorporate clinics or classes? What if there were beginner guilds run by employees that were expressly hired to teach the game?

And for that matter, what if those of us that have played a long time started guilds for that purpose? I have thought about doing it myself from time to time, but teaching new people requires a lot of time. Perhaps there could be perks for long time players that start guilds of this type. Maybe guild leaders could go through some kind of training to qualify?

Maybe people that are willing to teach could get a title, like Instructor, so that when they are on that character they can be available to answer questions. How many times have I seen someone ask a question in trade and get trolled? No one enjoys feeling like a fool, and there are people that will give you a straight answer. You just have to know where to find them and that is hard when you start.

There is clearly a frustrated portion of the player base that wants to learn, and perhaps there aren't enough teachers to go around.

Just an idea.
As you took the time to reply to me directly (something I can count happening on three fingers now since the forums existed,) I'll respond to you.
I believe the exact quote you're referencing is "[t]hat has not been my personal experience," a statement I made in response to someone who claimed that the World of Warcraft community is primarily made up of rude and belligerent players.

Overall, the experiences I've had with other players have been positive. That's not to say I haven't encountered negativity or been treated poorly. I have. Or that I believe my experiences are somehow more representative of the community than yours. I don't. Your mileage may vary, and that's important feedback. It would be remiss of me, however, to just blindly agree that the community is no more than a snarling pack of slack-jawed vote kickers when, in fact, the time I've spent in game using LFD, negotiating deals via Trade, and running cross-realm battlegrounds has indicated otherwise.

I'm not saying that the majority of the playerbase are a bunch of jerks. There ARE some decent players out there. Sadly, the jerks are more prominent. When you advertise in a chat channel that you are looking for a group to run a Old World dungeon or you want to get an enchantment that was introduced in BC and the only reply you get is someone flaming you with "Why run that instance? Are you a noob?" or "I'm not switching characters to give someone something from two expansions ago. You must suck!" that kind of stuff sticks with you. Normally, I just write these people off. But what if that is what happens the next fifteen times you ask? Eventually, you'll stop asking.

You have a lot of power over how you perceive the world. If you (the global "you") insist that the community is terrible and are unwilling to seek out the good in it, then, yes, you're probably going to have a bad time since you'll only be looking for behavior that validates your viewpoint. I was merely offering a different perspective to show that, no, everything is not hopeless and that, yes, it's possible to embrace the World of Warcraft community as something that's inherently good.
Of course. And I do my part to help keep the community clean. I do this despite the fact that I believe Blizzard could do a lot more to police their own game. I'm also not saying that I haven't had positive experiences in WoW. I still remember getting misty eyed when the music played the first time I faced Illidan. However, these memories are few and far between. Now maybe it is the servers I play on. Maybe I am a glutton for punishement. Or just bloody unlucky! When a blue types "That is not my personal experience," I cry "FOUL!" Because you have to be seeing the same stuff a lot of us are annoyed with. It just seems like you are unwilling to admit it because it would reflect negatively on the company. From a PR standpoint, I can understand that. But I will only take that so far before I tell a PR person "Will you get real?" Sugar coating everything you tell you eventually has me disliking sugar.

With all that said, I just want to thank everyone who's participated in this discussion. As I noted earlier, we agree that there's not a whole lot of in-game education available outside of trial and error, and that this can sometimes lead to players becoming frustrated and dropping group. This is something the game could perhaps do better, so we definitely appreciate all the feedback we've received and continue to receive on the topic and on how we might continue to make your in-game experiences more epic.
It's nothing personal. Responses like this last quote reassure me that Blizzard is listening. For me, the occasional affirmation is all I need.

Just please don't kick me if you find me in your LFG group.
Im not sure if this has been said, was just tracking the blue posts and the general theme of the post. WoW has some of the easiest to obtain information regarding ANYTHING in the game. Go Google World of Warcraft, I can wait for you to come back......

Amazing wasn't it? Over 50 million results, give or take a million. Now given a good amount of them may have little to do with the game play of WoW there are still plenty of gems out there. WoWwiki, WoWhead, MMO-Champion all offer more game play information than your little noob hearts could handle. What is even better is those sites have a helpful community behind them adding info just to help people like you. Some of those people have even mapped out end game for you from stat priorities to ideal rotations.

Now, why do some people act all high and mighty? Cause they have spent hours on these sites, forums, or wiping over and over again doing all the research that you haven't done yet. Which no one likes the guy who just wants the answers without having to do any of the work. So go hit the books-- err sites-- and learn up, my little nooblings learn; and become the snob who snubs the next noob. Go and become the "leet pwnzor" I know you can all be.

Lylirra, you must just ram your head against a wall when you reply on this thread. I haven't even read all of them, but you've essentially agreed that there are some bad apples yet your experiences have been mostly positive at least 4 times and still no one is understanding. I think you're the one who needs a /hug here.

/hug <all blues>
01/20/2011 7:28 PMPosted by Lylirra
I sure wish I could get some of those rose-colored glasses you have on.

I crafted them out of good nature, love, patience, elbow macaroni, and glitter. I'd make you some, but their power comes from within.
This post made me giggle :D
Why isn't this thread stickied yet?
You have a lot of power over how you perceive the world. If you (the global "you") insist that the community is terrible and are unwilling to seek out the good in it, then, yes, you're probably going to have a bad time since you'll only be ,for behavior that validates your viewpoint. I was merely offering a different perspective to show that, no, everything is not hopeless and that, yes, it's possible to embrace the World of Warcraft community as something that's inherently good.

Great way to be. This is how I am when I deal with people. Treat others how you want to be treated. Sometimes sadly even being kind, generous and loyal hate many there is always going to be individuals who's self loathing will lead them to try and bring others down to their level. Its harder to overcome those few ... but the rewards for doing so are far greater.
Its why I enjoy my guild.
External research should not be mandatory. This is a great game filled with content but very little tools are given to a player to expand their skill-set in endgame. These should be IN THE GAME.

This by Rippy. ^^

Sucks you have to get all the info on this game outside of the game, and even outside of the official website.

I know why they did it, its the RPG aspect of this game, but face it its not a real RPG you have to adjust your thinking.

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