Watcher says No Flying in WoW's Future. VII

General Discussion
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06/05/2015 07:20 AMPosted by Brahmina
More evidence that the real reason for no-fly is financial. They don't care if we skip stuff. They don't want to have to spend the money to create a world where players can fly anywhere they want. I think WoW generates enough revenue to pay for itself (and then some) but Activision is siphoning every dime they can get out of it, cutting the production and development budget to get the most cash they can. Killing the golden goose, as it were.

This is a common end result trend which franchises that unluckily end associated with activision suffer, they are known for getting siphoned to death for every single penny till the franchise is utterly ruined.
06/04/2015 08:31 PMPosted by Jecca
Don't worry guys. I'm not really expecting that.

But a gnome can hope, yeah?

I think I need a hug.


My musical hug for you Jecca:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKbPtQiKjJE

BBF
06/05/2015 07:33 AMPosted by Sieghild
06/05/2015 07:20 AMPosted by Brahmina
More evidence that the real reason for no-fly is financial. They don't care if we skip stuff. They don't want to have to spend the money to create a world where players can fly anywhere they want. I think WoW generates enough revenue to pay for itself (and then some) but Activision is siphoning every dime they can get out of it, cutting the production and development budget to get the most cash they can. Killing the golden goose, as it were.

This is a common end result trend which franchises that unluckily end associated with activision suffer, they are known for getting siphoned to death for every single penny till the franchise is utterly ruined.


Yet if these publishers got their heads of out their asses they would know that caring about a franchise would bring in more revenues.

It's funny how when people are greedy they think they will make more money, although the opposite will happen. Their greed will make them lose money. Usually greed leads people to make illogical decisions, like this for example. More players will get pissed and leave and cost the company more money than if they did things the right way.
06/05/2015 07:29 AMPosted by Mythyethdor
I kind of had to laugh

The pvp hard corps just posted up that their t17 off pieces can only be gotten running ashran for rng boxes.

They are all up in arms and fussing at bliz.

Kinda like people who want to fly are up in arms.

Pvpers have been raging about ashran since the beginning of the expansion, they have told blizzard numerous times on the current issues which just end ignored by holinka and company.
06/05/2015 07:15 AMPosted by Sieghild
This following link will give you an idea on how classes progress into jobs, you need to level 2 classes and after a small quest line a job is unlocked. http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Jobs


I wish I could get that dang site to STOP auto refreshing the pages! Not even the Firefox addon will stop it, and I hate pages that do that. /grrrr
06/05/2015 07:39 AMPosted by Sieghild
06/05/2015 07:29 AMPosted by Mythyethdor
I kind of had to laugh

The pvp hard corps just posted up that their t17 off pieces can only be gotten running ashran for rng boxes.

They are all up in arms and fussing at bliz.

Kinda like people who want to fly are up in arms.

Pvpers have been raging about ashran since the beginning of the expansion, they have told blizzard numerous times on the current issues which just end ignored by holinka and company.

That's because Ashran is Holinka's Baby, and it can do no wrong. We just don't know how to APPRECIATE it. That's his view. It can't be his view that's wrong, no it's the players that are.
I've been playing World of Warcraft for over eleven years. I have been subscribed the entire time and never really stopped playing. I like many features of the game. I like many mechanics of the game. Over the years, my main has cleared the hard if not hardest raids before they were an easier instance.

I played some Hearthstone, Starcraft, and Diablo and have tried Heroes. A few months ago, I would have called myself a fan of Blizzard. I was also trying to get tickets and fly across the country to Blizzcon.

I'm now thinking I'm glad I didn't get tickets. I will most likely still play, but my interest is fading. I don't think I can call myself a fan. I'm just a player now.

Sure it's normal that the interest fades when the content is old and done. And there are many contributing factors. Garrisons are great and terrible. 6.1 is what 6.0 should have been. The raids are old. The zones are empty because everyone is in their garrison. But all that is a bit beside the point. It's something else.

It feels like there is a lack of respect to the players. The idea that all that raid farming and hard won achievements yield mounts that flop around on the ground is ... garbage. Our flying mount rewards have turned to garbage.

I think Ion's justifications around not allowing flying are flawed. But the wow fan blowback on this is strong.

I haven't posted about this before. I may repost it in my blog.
06/05/2015 07:20 AMPosted by Brahmina
More evidence that the real reason for no-fly is financial. They don't care if we skip stuff.


They never cared if we skip stuff. That we have level 100s walking around who have barely touched Draenor - just as we had level 90s who barely touched Pandaria - is why the protection of the integrity of content has always been a canard. You can skip the whole damn open world and not be penalized for it. In fact, if you do, you will probably end up with better gear in the long run, which makes it even more absurd. It's only when you actually engage in the content with the restrictions that you get penalized, and the penalties don't encourage people to do that content more.

Dungeons and raids are all carrot. The open world is all stick.
06/05/2015 06:16 AMPosted by Jecca
Update on the archive: I'm noticing a new trend. Players aren't holding onto a "reserve" account as much towards the end of thread two. Rather than bother with that, they're axing all their accounts, and some players are going as far as to completely uninstall.

Nods... and the Q&A thread has many quit posts on it now after Lore's 2nd post (the postpone announcement)
06/05/2015 01:52 AMPosted by Elae
I think it's not entirely fair and accurate to label all flyers as "lazy", as people that just want to get from point A to point B, as I don't think that's entirely true, for me, flying was never really about that, yes it helps with that, but to me this is a fantasy game and riding a dragon is something I can't exactly do in real life, and that's part of what makes flying COOL.


I find the idea that people who love to fly as being "lazy" just sort of comical really. Correct me if I'm wrong, but, are we all not sitting in front of a computer screen mashing buttons whether we are flying, walking, or riding a mount? Are the no-flyers mashing their buttons harder than flyers or something? Do they have their computers powered by their treadmills that provide extra power for the computer when they walk or ride a ground mount? No? Then I don't want to hear anything about flyers being "lazy".. that sort of logic is to me.. illogical.

Why can't non-flyers understand and accept that for some people.. flying is just "fun"? It's not about getting from point A to point B.. it's the journey.. the freedom... the sheer exhilaration of being able to do in a game what you can only dream of being able to do in real life.

Please Blizzard... don't be the Grinch that stole flying from me and many others who just love to fly...

#NoFlyNoSub
06/05/2015 06:53 AMPosted by Enkki
They quit asking "why" "what" and "how" WAY to early.

I don't think they even asked those questions Enk. Look at how many this, this, this, problems were pointed out during closed beta, carried right out into open beta and are still in game today....

It seems like, if they have asked.... they are not listening to the replies they are given if they don't mesh with what they want/expect....

and the subscribers aka the players pay for it....

06/05/2015 07:28 AMPosted by Jecca
If they think a desktop computer is falling behind in technology,

Their statement on desktop/consoles during Blizzcon 2014 was that they did not see the death of desk/laptops in the near future and were still dedicated to them as the main platform for their games. It's also in the stockholders reports.....
06/05/2015 03:36 AMPosted by Keiran
06/05/2015 03:25 AMPosted by Solaru
Then fight for the game and not how you get to content.


The thousands of posts over these last 7 threads have been doing just that though. The pro-flying argument hasn't just been 'we want to get to stuff faster', that's just one (also completely valid) facet of a much bigger issue.


For me, part of "getting to stuff faster" means I can get to more stuff faster. If I can log on for 2 hours and get six things done as opposed to logging in for 2 hours and getting two things done, I am a happy person. Blizzard seems to look on that as me consuming content too fast.

But If I am happy, then I will log on more often. If it takes me 2 hours to get two things done, it annoys me and I am less likely to log on to do just two things.

Their understanding of their player base seems to fall into a very narrow focus of "We put out content, player consumes, player goes away until more content." Perhaps it is their definition of content that is too narrow.

Flying and gaining the ability to fly and acquiring flying mounts is content in and of itself to a portion of the player base.

Blizzard tracks activity/content usage. Do they track the number of times a player uses a flying mount? How many players, from BC until MoP, have purchased the ability to fly? How many people purchase in-game mounts? How many purchase store mounts? How many people have farmed old content for mounts? How many did that marvelous quest in the Arboretum for a flying serpent? (Some multiple times-raises hand.)

I would speculate that questing-to-level is the only content that has more activity than flying. What has more participation, raiding or flying? Pvp or flying? Even better, you don't have to purchase the right to do either of those in-game, but you do for flying. And still, many, many more people buy the flight licenses and mounts, both in and out of game in order to participate in that "content."

For whatever reason, even people who say they "hate it" and feel put upon when they "have to fly" still choose to participate in flying.

Perhaps widening "the vision" (which I still have no clue about in any coherent form) to include flying as actual content, would be a good idea.
Keep fighting the good fight, my fellow pro-flyers. Know that there are many of us who support you even though we post less frenquently than we probably should.
Well, my sub ends...Monday night so yeah, I'll be here throughout the weekend, but after that, I'm gone and likely uninstalling after I place my characters in their final 'resting' places.

It seems only fitting that this character, who has been my main for the last 5 years, make a journey back to Acherus, back to where it all began. I've only had one other main, a priest (that started out undead, I changed to gnome when I made the switch to alliance) so I'll likely be placing him in Deathknell, where it all began 10+ years ago, even though I'm on the opposite faction now. >.>

It really is going to be a sad and emotional moment, though, when I finally say goodbye. Since making this death knight my main character, no many how many alts I have tried to level up (I only have one other 100 currently), I've always come back to this character. Had things been different, I really don't think I ever would have changed. I've stuck with Seraphion through thick and thin, but with the direction the game is heading, I think it's time he took a much deserved rest.
06/05/2015 08:03 AMPosted by Shadowdamna
06/05/2015 07:28 AMPosted by Jecca
If they think a desktop computer is falling behind in technology,

Their statement on desktop/consoles during Blizzcon 2014 was that they did not see the death of desk/laptops in the near future and were still dedicated to them as the main platform for their games. It's also in the stockholders reports.....

Ah, and herein is the rub: can we trust what they said? At the risk of disappearing (the opposite of "I think therefore I am"), I think not. :-)
06/05/2015 08:15 AMPosted by Heysugar
Flying and gaining the ability to fly and acquiring flying mounts is content in and of itself to a portion of the player base.

Blizzard tracks activity/content usage. Do they track the number of times a player uses a flying mount? How many players, from BC until MoP, have purchased the ability to fly? How many people purchase in-game mounts? How many purchase store mounts? How many people have farmed old content for mounts? How many did that marvelous quest in the Arboretum for a flying serpent? (Some multiple times-raises hand.)


This, so much this. You have a real way of putting things, Sugar. (That's why I stop to read all your posts as I'm going through the older sections of this thread, too, even though I generally just skim the other regulars.)

Up until this flying thing happened, I was happily doing two things in game: Leveling alts, and farming some mounts I really wanted with my main. The drakes were my regular rotation, along with the original dread raven and Rivendare's. See, I've wanted a green drake for AGES.

I got the black, red, bronze, and blue during Wrath, and the green was the only one missing from my collection (similar to the way the bronze was the only pet one I'd been missing before the pre-event). So when I saw that achievement, I jumped at it. I've been farming those mounts every week, and the dungeon ones every day, ever since I hit 100 on my main.

When this no flying thing happened? I just stopped. There was no point anymore. Sure, I COULD still go back and keep farming them, but I don't want a green drake that can only sit on the ground. I want to fly with it, and not just in old places, I want to take it to new ones.

And I did the Arboretum quests multiple times too... they MEANT something to me. I was actually kind of offended that they took those requirements out for cloud serpent riding. Sure I'd have ended up with extra cloud serpents, just like I did with that stupid seahorse... but the journey would have been worth it. I remember the first time I typed /love at my baby serpent, and that little heart popped up over its head and it emoted loving me too. I squealed like a little girl at a surprise birthday party.

Those kinds of moments MEAN something to me, even if it is "just a game" to the people that can overlook them. I don't want those moments to be tarnished by watching that cloud serpent slithering over the ground.
06/05/2015 08:26 AMPosted by Seraphion
Well, my sub ends...Monday night so yeah, I'll be here throughout the weekend, but after that, I'm gone and likely uninstalling after I place my characters in their final 'resting' places.


I know you put that in quotes, but I just can't think of it as placing my characters in their final 'resting' places.

I prefer to think of it as placing them in the places where we were all happiest--and that varies depending on the character--and imagining that they'll continue to be happy there, frozen in time.
I'm very unhappy with flying being removed as a feature (once promised) for this expansion and future ones. I collected up quite a few flying mounts, I enjoyed the utility of it when gathering mats for crafting (also noting professions seem to have suffered quite a bit lately), and for transport to places I was going to quest or raid. Now, like some cities, we are expected to either hoof it or use mass transit (taxi flights) instead of our own private vehicles, so to speak. Sad. I really am deeply disappointed in this change in the game.

Exploration is kind of fun when leveling. It tapers off once you've hit max level and finished gathering the hidden treasures, and becomes just a hindrance to other things you'd like to do.

Blizzard: While I sympathize with why you think this was the right decision, I will register my own small voice in disagreement with this no good, very bad, terrible decision. You're prioritizing something that loses it's value at max level and undercuts a lot of the hard work people have put in for so many, many years now.
06/05/2015 06:53 AMPosted by Rollo
I guess Blizzard thinks skipping everything between points A and B is what players want (which is kind of an admission that, yes, at level cap, most of what is between A and B can be skipped and the game won't break), rather than the ability to choose what to engage in between points A and B.


Another thing that makes me laugh is the things they are adding in 6.2 that lets you do exactly that. Think of what that entails - they have to come up with the concept, they have to code the concept, they have to test it, they have to have it tested on the ptr and the most difficult task of all, they have to hope players will accept it. And that is not just for one item, they seem to have multiple items for 6.2 that will do that in some form or other. And this is in what will be "current" content. Really?? What happened to "skipping current content = Bad Player"?

Why make all that effort and take all that time and do all that work when you already have a very popular and perfectly functional way of skipping irrelevant content already in-game? All it tells me is that they have been reading the threads and grasping some of the points being made, but they are still deliberately ignoring the elephant in the room. People want the ability to choose when to fly and where to fly and how to fly.

For some unknown reason, they are not willing to cede that kind of power to players. They will not allow players to have that kind of control. They seem willing to give us the functionality we say we want, even if it goes against their stated reason for disallowing flying in current content. That is indicative of a mindset I have no capacity to understand and I pride myself on trying to understand another person's point-of-view, even if I cannot agree. I am baffled. I am also not optimistic. That absolute, intransigent refusal to even consider re-introducing flying does not bode well.
06/05/2015 08:15 AMPosted by Heysugar
For whatever reason, even people who say they "hate it" and feel put upon when they "have to fly" still choose to participate in flying.


Whelp if they can give me a way to get to places where you absolutely need to fly to reach... then you would never see me fly. Sadly, I can't jump from Cosmo wrench to Tempest Keep and places of the like. Also I would not mind a server just for it like someone above said, this way when I'm out doing my thing I don't have to be irritated by Derp who just flew in next to me hovering on his Roflcopter. And the rest can be happy on a reg Top Gun server

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