Still being strung along

General Discussion
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I don't trust anything they say anymore. I think the proposed requirements are too harsh. Heck, in all the other expansions you just needed to get to max level and put down some hefty gold in order to fly.

I don't mind so much all the quest and exploration achievements if they want to be that way, but I do take issue with the rep grinds because I don't raid and I don't like high-end dungeons so if this rep-grind is only achievable with the raiding and dungeons that I am definitely out. I don't appreciate raiding being shoved down my throat.

Also, as OP has identified we don't know WHEN they plan to turn it on. It could be a year from now. AND they don't tell us how much GOLD its going to take to have the privilege of buying flying lessons after jumping through their hoops of fire like some trained seals.

Nope, I don't like their "compromise" at all - it smells like old fish - and I still won't subscribe to (or promote) their game until I see some changes that are actually for the better. Besides, the flying thing is not the only reason we quit, its all the other garbage that went with it.

Also, I just looked at the official post and its seems very vegue:

√In an upcoming Public Test Realm build, we will be introducing a new meta-achievement called Draenor Pathfinder. You’ll earn this achievement in Patch 6.2 by mastering the outdoor environment of Draenor—exploring Draenor’s zones, collecting 100 treasures in Draenor, completing the Draenor Loremaster and Securing Draenor achievements, and raising the three new Tanaan Jungle reputations to Revered. Initially, this achievement will award a rylak mount: the Soaring Skyterror, one of the native beasts that roam Draenor’s skies. Players will remain ground-bound on Draenor until a small follow-up patch (6.2.x), when all players who have earned Draenor Pathfinder on at least one character will unlock the ability to fly in Draenor on all their level 90+ characters.


So we will need to do these things in order to be eligible to fly:

meta-achievement called Draenor Pathfinder
1.) collecting 100 treasures in Draenor
2.) completing the Draenor Loremaster
3.) Securing Draenor achievements ((what is this?!))
4.) raising the three new Tanaan Jungle reputations to Revered ((its not really yet known just how long that will take ?!))

In MoP all we had to do was reach level 90.
I'm very much so pro-flight, but this seriously sounds like finding excuses to complain. I was just as hurt as many of you by the original announcement, but really, find some positivity.
@ Granpaw - The Securing Draenor achievement is from doing the apexis daily quests, unless I'm mistaken. I've read that we can buy them in our garrison - missives - or wait for them to show up on the table each day.

I have one left to do and hope it can be a missive so that I don't have to wait. I have the apexis monument and stopped doing the dailies when they became 5-mans only, so I missed doing the Iron Siegeworks; wowhead says the quest is no longer in the game.
06/10/2015 05:32 PMPosted by Sakurasan
If they double cross people after all this then any subs they saved with this little move will just drop off again - along with MINE.


Which is exactly why I think they'll stick to their word here.
06/10/2015 04:34 PMPosted by Gygrax
It is subscriber bait. I have already witness people immediately resubscribe just because Blizzard posted flying is coming soon.


Which Blizzard counted on.
.x patches are generally very small and not on the ptr for that long.

The wow token system was a .x patch for 6.1 and I think came a few weeks after 6.1?

There is one thing that blizz is always pretty consistent about and adheres to a pattern and its the ptr dev cycle.
The fact that such a petulant post got any upvotes at all is very disheartening.
06/10/2015 04:20 PMPosted by Talacocheta
When is patch 6.2.x?

No one knows.

We won't get flying after we've completed the requirements for it. We will get flying when they put in the patch if we've completed the requirements for it.

Blizzard can still take their time about putting flying into current content, and they can still string people along for their subs until then.

Blizzard can still change their mind and not put in flying, even after all of this mess. They can say they changed their minds and that we misunderstood their "intention."

I won't believe it until I see it.

(I'm already Loremaster of Draenor, have explored all the areas available so far, and will have the treasures achievement completed by tonight since I already had 30 or so from leveling. I will just have to do exploration of Tanaan and the reps, so don't say I'm whining about having to do things in order to get flying. I don't trust Blizzard, and not having a firm date for flying in the game makes me believe them even less.)

The reality is that we don't think it's good for anyone for us to delay Patch 6.2 further to implement this. When it comes to building, testing, and deploying patches, such a change this late in the PTR cycle is far from trivial. More broadly, it's very much a fact that, in a world of production processes and development pipelines, results on a change in design decision like this can't be immediate.

Whether or not you believe this to be truthful is inconsequential. We've explained to the community our change in decision and how we'll go about implementing that change, purely to update everyone and inform you.
06/10/2015 09:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
06/10/2015 04:20 PMPosted by Talacocheta
When is patch 6.2.x?

No one knows.

We won't get flying after we've completed the requirements for it. We will get flying when they put in the patch if we've completed the requirements for it.

Blizzard can still take their time about putting flying into current content, and they can still string people along for their subs until then.

Blizzard can still change their mind and not put in flying, even after all of this mess. They can say they changed their minds and that we misunderstood their "intention."

I won't believe it until I see it.

(I'm already Loremaster of Draenor, have explored all the areas available so far, and will have the treasures achievement completed by tonight since I already had 30 or so from leveling. I will just have to do exploration of Tanaan and the reps, so don't say I'm whining about having to do things in order to get flying. I don't trust Blizzard, and not having a firm date for flying in the game makes me believe them even less.)

The reality is that we don't think it's good for anyone for us to delay Patch 6.2 further to implement this. When it comes to building, testing, and deploying patches, such a change this late in the PTR cycle is far from trivial. More broadly, it's very much a fact that, in a world of production processes and development pipelines, results on a change in design decision like this can't be immediate.

Whether or not you believe this to be truthful is inconsequential. We've explained to the community our change in decision and how we'll go about implementing that change, purely to update everyone and inform you.


I think the real question here is what kind of timeline will we be looking at? Not asking for an exact date, but are we looking at weeks after 6.2 hits; months after 6.2 hits; or right before 7.0 hits?
06/10/2015 09:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
The reality is that we don't think it's good for anyone for us to delay Patch 6.2 further to implement this. When it comes to building, testing, and deploying patches, such a change this late in the PTR cycle is far from trivial. More broadly, it's very much a fact that, in a world of production processes and development pipelines, results on a change in design decision like this can't be immediate.

Whether or not you believe this to be truthful is inconsequential. We've explained to the community our change in decision and how we'll go about implementing that change, purely to update everyone and inform you.


And I, for one, fully understand and am delighted by the compromise on flight.

Big thanks to everyone who contributed to this decision.
06/10/2015 09:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
The reality is that we don't think it's good for anyone for us to delay Patch 6.2 further to implement this. When it comes to building, testing, and deploying patches, such a change this late in the PTR cycle is far from trivial. More broadly, it's very much a fact that, in a world of production processes and development pipelines, results on a change in design decision like this can't be immediate.

Whether or not you believe this to be truthful is inconsequential. We've explained to the community our change in decision and how we'll go about implementing that change, purely to update everyone and inform you.


I believe it. We were in SoO for 14 months and 3 days so that you guys could polish WoD. Worked out pretty well because there were 10m subscribers at launch
06/10/2015 09:38 PMPosted by Zarhym

The reality is that we don't think it's good for anyone for us to delay Patch 6.2 further to implement this. When it comes to building, testing, and deploying patches, such a change this late in the PTR cycle is far from trivial. More broadly, it's very much a fact that, in a world of production processes and development pipelines, results on a change in design decision like this can't be immediate.

Whether or not you believe this to be truthful is inconsequential. We've explained to the community our change in decision and how we'll go about implementing that change, purely to update everyone and inform you.


I can accept that; but seriously, lay off the caffeine.
No matter which direction Blizzard takes the game, there will always be complainers. We saw it first with the removal of flying, and again now with the return of flying... you can't please everyone. Other people just need something to gripe about, for some crazy reason. Either way, don't let anyone dictate your gaming experience; it's your adventure. It's up to you to make the game fun.
The greatest game ever made, just ruined by arrogant developers.. Just give me back my flying mount. I earned it years ago. It breaks immersion and makes me angry when the things I have earned are just taken away upon a developers whim.
06/10/2015 04:20 PMPosted by Talacocheta
When is patch 6.2.x?

No one knows.

We won't get flying after we've completed the requirements for it. We will get flying when they put in the patch if we've completed the requirements for it.

Blizzard can still take their time about putting flying into current content, and they can still string people along for their subs until then.


Right, and we're likely to see another 5.4 so I don't think when 6.2x is going to be out is relevant, because we're going to have plenty of time to fly in Draenor when the x-pac is still out.
06/10/2015 04:20 PMPosted by Talacocheta
When is patch 6.2.x?

No one knows.

We won't get flying after we've completed the requirements for it. We will get flying when they put in the patch if we've completed the requirements for it.

Blizzard can still take their time about putting flying into current content, and they can still string people along for their subs until then.

Blizzard can still change their mind and not put in flying, even after all of this mess. They can say they changed their minds and that we misunderstood their "intention."

I won't believe it until I see it.

(I'm already Loremaster of Draenor, have explored all the areas available so far, and will have the treasures achievement completed by tonight since I already had 30 or so from leveling. I will just have to do exploration of Tanaan and the reps, so don't say I'm whining about having to do things in order to get flying. I don't trust Blizzard, and not having a firm date for flying in the game makes me believe them even less.)


Perfect example of how some people are impossible to please :(

... seriously?? ...
06/10/2015 04:22 PMPosted by Talithia
Well at least you get time to work on the stuff you need to get the achievement. How long do you think it will take to finish up all the requirements?


It'll take a weekend for me, a weekend I'll spend watching youtube/netflix while I'm "immersed" in grinding content I've already done while leveling just to cap out a few achievements I either wouldn't do at all or might actually enjoy if I already had flying.
06/10/2015 09:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
06/10/2015 04:20 PMPosted by Talacocheta
When is patch 6.2.x?

No one knows.

We won't get flying after we've completed the requirements for it. We will get flying when they put in the patch if we've completed the requirements for it.

Blizzard can still take their time about putting flying into current content, and they can still string people along for their subs until then.

Blizzard can still change their mind and not put in flying, even after all of this mess. They can say they changed their minds and that we misunderstood their "intention."

I won't believe it until I see it.

(I'm already Loremaster of Draenor, have explored all the areas available so far, and will have the treasures achievement completed by tonight since I already had 30 or so from leveling. I will just have to do exploration of Tanaan and the reps, so don't say I'm whining about having to do things in order to get flying. I don't trust Blizzard, and not having a firm date for flying in the game makes me believe them even less.)

The reality is that we don't think it's good for anyone for us to delay Patch 6.2 further to implement this. When it comes to building, testing, and deploying patches, such a change this late in the PTR cycle is far from trivial. More broadly, it's very much a fact that, in a world of production processes and development pipelines, results on a change in design decision like this can't be immediate.

Whether or not you believe this to be truthful is inconsequential. We've explained to the community our change in decision and how we'll go about implementing that change, purely to update everyone and inform you.


I find it hard to believe removing flying from the achievement is all that hard and y'll have always claimed flying was ready to go at the flip of a switch, so just flip the switch with 6.2.
06/10/2015 09:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
Whether or not you believe this to be truthful is inconsequential. We've explained to the community our change in decision and how we'll go about implementing that change, purely to update everyone and inform you.


You've explained to the community your original decision as well. And now you've explained your change in decision. I imagine your customers' belief in whether you are truthful past, present, and future has consequences. Stop posting as if customers owe you money and trust.
06/10/2015 06:57 PMPosted by Granpaw
I don't trust anything they say anymore. I think the proposed requirements are too harsh. Heck, in all the other expansions you just needed to get to max level and put down some hefty gold in order to fly.

I don't mind so much all the quest and exploration achievements if they want to be that way, but I do take issue with the rep grinds because I don't raid and I don't like high-end dungeons so if this rep-grind is only achievable with the raiding and dungeons that I am definitely out. I don't appreciate raiding being shoved down my throat.

Also, as OP has identified we don't know WHEN they plan to turn it on. It could be a year from now. AND they don't tell us how much GOLD its going to take to have the privilege of buying flying lessons after jumping through their hoops of fire like some trained seals.

Nope, I don't like their "compromise" at all - it smells like old fish - and I still won't subscribe to (or promote) their game until I see some changes that are actually for the better. Besides, the flying thing is not the only reason we quit, its all the other garbage that went with it.

Also, I just looked at the official post and its seems very vegue:

√In an upcoming Public Test Realm build, we will be introducing a new meta-achievement called Draenor Pathfinder. You’ll earn this achievement in Patch 6.2 by mastering the outdoor environment of Draenor—exploring Draenor’s zones, collecting 100 treasures in Draenor, completing the Draenor Loremaster and Securing Draenor achievements, and raising the three new Tanaan Jungle reputations to Revered. Initially, this achievement will award a rylak mount: the Soaring Skyterror, one of the native beasts that roam Draenor’s skies. Players will remain ground-bound on Draenor until a small follow-up patch (6.2.x), when all players who have earned Draenor Pathfinder on at least one character will unlock the ability to fly in Draenor on all their level 90+ characters.


So we will need to do these things in order to be eligible to fly:

meta-achievement called Draenor Pathfinder
1.) collecting 100 treasures in Draenor
2.) completing the Draenor Loremaster
3.) Securing Draenor achievements ((what is this?!))
4.) raising the three new Tanaan Jungle reputations to Revered ((its not really yet known just how long that will take ?!))

In MoP all we had to do was reach level 90.


You're being pretty unreasonable here around the wait for the minor patch. This is a decision that was made after they already had 6.2 pretty much finalised. It's perfectly reasonable for them to delay the implementation for a minor patch, and it allows us time to progress along the requirements in the meantime.

That said, if you don't enjoy the rest of the game, by all means unsub, but this call is pretty reasonable, the only thing I really disagree with is the treasure requirement, which is basically because I think the overlap between "people who enjoy jumping puzzles" and "people who enjoy flying" is minimal. I could be completely wrong there of course, but I'd rather that was subbed out with some enjoyable content, like a questline.

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