Combustion and Meteor

Mage
Combustion is too gear-dependent and needs an option to be useful for mages that want to play Fire without BiS gear. Meteor should not split its damage between targets hit. It might need to do less single-target damage to compensate.
06/15/2015 01:28 PMPosted by Kulgorre
Combustion - why does this spell have its damage determined by previous castings? It's probably been this way for a while so long-time players are probably used to it, but why not just have it do damage about on par with Bladestorm.

Combustion being tied to Ignite is a big part of the gameplay. It is what makes Combustion a very unique cooldown, unlike many other specs who have "do X% more damage for Y seconds" as their effect. Replacing it with another button that just does damage and has no interaction with other abilities would make it very bland and boring.

Also, there is no such thing as a "5 second window" for Ignite building. This is a misunderstanding of how it works.

06/15/2015 01:28 PMPosted by Kulgorre
Meteor- an AoE spell with a 3 second delay that splits the damage between the targets? For some reason, I wish it did 50-65% of its current single-target damage to ALL targets. I realize this would make fire's single target damage even worse, but it just feels clunky and counter-intuitive.

Making it split damage is in fact most intuitive, because that is how meteor effects have always worked. This dates all the way back to Ahn'Qiraj during vanilla. In fact, this split-damage effect is so iconic that people have started describing split-damage as "meteored damage".

Saying it "just feels clunky" doesn't tell me anything about the problem you have with it, or what problem you're trying to fix.

06/15/2015 01:28 PMPosted by Kulgorre
Inferno Blast- stated simply, I just want this spell's CD to drop with higher haste or just have a slightly shorter CD in general. During TW when you're really whipping out FBs, 8 seconds suddenly feels like a millennium.

Inferno Blast contributes directly to the number of Heating Up/Pyroblast procs you can get. It is also directly tied to Fire Mage's AOE and cleave DPS. If IB's CD were reduced, not only would we be getting a lot more Pyroblasts and devaluing crit, but our extremely strong AOE/cleave damage would be further increased.

We've seen how giving one extra charge of IB can break gameplay and lead to Fire being overpowered. Reducing the cooldown without thinking it through is just as dangerous, if not more so.
06/15/2015 04:14 PMPosted by Komma
06/15/2015 01:28 PMPosted by Kulgorre
Combustion - why does this spell have its damage determined by previous castings? It's probably been this way for a while so long-time players are probably used to it, but why not just have it do damage about on par with Bladestorm.

Combustion being tied to Ignite is a big part of the gameplay. It is what makes Combustion a very unique cooldown, unlike many other specs who have "do X% more damage for Y seconds" as their effect. Replacing it with another button that just does damage and has no interaction with other abilities would make it very bland and boring.

Also, there is no such thing as a "5 second window" for Ignite building. This is a misunderstanding of how it works.

06/15/2015 01:28 PMPosted by Kulgorre
Meteor- an AoE spell with a 3 second delay that splits the damage between the targets? For some reason, I wish it did 50-65% of its current single-target damage to ALL targets. I realize this would make fire's single target damage even worse, but it just feels clunky and counter-intuitive.

Making it split damage is in fact most intuitive, because that is how meteor effects have always worked. This dates all the way back to Ahn'Qiraj during vanilla. In fact, this split-damage effect is so iconic that people have started describing split-damage as "meteored damage".

Saying it "just feels clunky" doesn't tell me anything about the problem you have with it, or what problem you're trying to fix.

06/15/2015 01:28 PMPosted by Kulgorre
Inferno Blast- stated simply, I just want this spell's CD to drop with higher haste or just have a slightly shorter CD in general. During TW when you're really whipping out FBs, 8 seconds suddenly feels like a millennium.

Inferno Blast contributes directly to the number of Heating Up/Pyroblast procs you can get. It is also directly tied to Fire Mage's AOE and cleave DPS. If IB's CD were reduced, not only would we be getting a lot more Pyroblasts and devaluing crit, but our extremely strong AOE/cleave damage would be further increased.

We've seen how giving one extra charge of IB can break gameplay and lead to Fire being overpowered. Reducing the cooldown without thinking it through is just as dangerous, if not more so.


Did you just say "Fire being overpowered" ? I can only remember once Fire being OP. Years and years ago.
The opening post seems mostly neutral about it but I think it's probably a PVE thread since Time Warp was mentioned and I don't think that's usable in arena, and Komma responded accordingly. Given the niche of cleave and AoE that fire's currently occupying in raids, the 2p bonus for ignite really does make things pretty crazy.

Naturally that's irrelevant for PVP, but from the look of things it seems like there's no interest at this time on the part of Blizzard to really make arcane or fire attractive PVP specs.
Meteor blows hogs in pvp. Any number of stupid pets or summons can make the damage go from decent to sh!t in a second. Which is unfortunate for fire because it's over all the best option in PVP. But the best of 3 !@#$es is still %^-*es. Great spell effect, Delayed cast is fine, but over crap when divided amongst hunter pets, treants, lock pets, shadow fiends, monk tigers, ghouls, mirror images, mage elementals, spirit wolves, you get the point it's bad.
Meteor really needs to stop splitting damage. I'd rather it get a longer CD and a direct damage nerf in exchange. Also I'd rather see the Meteor Burn effect just become a DoT that is applied to targets hit rather than just being ground damage (since tanks love to move the boss/adds out of the burn oh so very much).
I guess my big issue with Fire in PvE is the long ramp-up time which makes it suck if you have to switch targets -- a hindrance that just about every other "cleave" spec I play do not have. If Combustion did a solid 100k over 10 seconds instead of calculating the damage over the previous 5 seconds worth of Ignite... and Meteor didn't split its damage among multiple targets, it would finally be halfway decent at "switching targets" or "AoE burst".
The Combustion idea could probably be achieved with a glyph so that people that still want the "old" Combustion would still have it and lower-geared mages could still choose Fire without being gimped. To get the absolute most out of Combustion, you would use the current Combustion, but the glyph would give you 60% of the optimal damage without even a single Ignite having to be on the target!

Meteor, as it stands right now, seems a little too much like Prismatic Sphere (which also splits its damage) and thus only offers little more than a cosmetic choice. There are obvious differences besides that (PS only has an 8yd range and a fairly long CD), but it basically splits its damage just like Meteor. PS should remain the superior single target choice, but Meteor NOT splitting its damage would be more in line with Fire's design IMHO.

Perhaps my Inferno Blast's CD scaling with haste was a bit much... reach for the stars and grab the moon as they say!
The problem is, Fire is extremely strong still, even going into HFC and losing the 2p bonus from BRF. So without math and a strong argument as to WHY changes need to be made, otherwise nothing will change, Blizzard is pretty stubborn, but with compelling arguments and data they've made changes that have been requested.

Would I like to see less ramp up for fire? Most definitely. Do I think its necessary to have its current ramp up? Yes sadly.

edit- Im speaking only on pve. I'm so bad at pvp that I have nothing that could be considered as relevant to say on that topic.
True, and I never post anything like this thinking it'll get implemented right away. The earliest I would expect them to make any changes resembling anything I suggested would be 2 patches from now (6.4), but most likely it would be next expansion.

The Combustion "change" would be a nerf for people with BiS gear. It would simply allow gearing fire mages to get some use out of Combustion since their crit is not likely to be high enough to land consecutive IC Pyros 3+ times in 5 seconds.

The Meteor change... well, the spell would benefit from a redesign and it seems like I'm not the only person who thinks the damage shouldn't be split between all targets hit.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum