SMF and you. Updated 4.0.6.

Warrior
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There's a lot of information on the forums about Titans Grip, but very little information pointed at the other sub spec of Fury; the ORIGINAL Fury.

Updated for 4.0.6 and the raging blow nerf
Please ignore most posts on the first 10 pages of this thread. They are mostly outdated information pre-4.0.6.


I decided to fix that because I hate seeing so many TG warriors. So, here's my guide about the differences between SMF and TG. Some of the things I talk about in here will probably help out my TG brothers as well, especially the part about pooling rage. That's kind of common sense, but I know a lot of good warriors who don't think about pooling rage at all and then complain about being rage starved during colossus smash.

Why should you trust my advice? I have a degree in awesome, and when I'm not tanking (Freaking 3 tank fights) I'm generally ranked on on WoL. I've also spent entirely too much time testing my theories in simulationcraft and in raid encounters.

Talent spec: 8/31/2
http://wowtal.com/#k=BeB4St5V.aei.warrior.RDZPxp

As SMF you do far less weapon damage than TG, as your weapons are 1 handers and instant attacks that deal weapon damage (Slam/Raging Blow) do not scale nearly as well as 2 handers. This increases the value of your AP-based attacks such as Bloodthirst, Heroic Strike and Execute. Also, thanks to the SMF 20% damage buff, these abilities hit even harder than they would with TG. Heroic strike took it dirty-style with 4.0.6, which means that 8/31/2 is now the only spec you should ever have.

Of course you can throw around a couple of points and pickup Piercing howl or whatever, but that's generally what your spec will end up looking like.

Ability priority:
SMF and TG have very similar priorities now with 4.0.6, you’ll no longer ignore raging blow.
When dealing with a finite resource such as rage you will learn that there is an opportunity cost to every ability that you use as fury, whether it is TG or SMF.

Here's the reason why:
Damage per rage.

Ultimately you want to use your highest DPR abilities every time they're off cool down. When dealing with TG, RB is actually your highest DPR ability and as such is a button you want to use on cool down. This is not the case for SMF.

Damage per rage:
BT: 1350 (With t11 2 set bonus, which you should have at minimal.)
RB: 1050
HS: 900
Execute: 1100

Damage per button press:
Bloodthirst: 26800
Raging Blow: 20000
Slam: 25000
Heroic Strike: 19500
Generally, you’re going to be playing a giant game of “Avoid using heroic strike!” the entire encounter. Here are the following scenarios in which heroic strike usage is ok.

Rage > 85 and you're not in execute phase.
Colossus smash and rage > 50
Incite proc (Save for Colossus smash if possible.)
Battle trance proc

General rotation:

BT_BT_BT

Fill in blanks with CS > Slam > RB > Battle shout

Rage management is incredibly important here. I would highly recommend grabbing some sort of add-on that places a rage bar close to the middle of your screen. I use enraged at the moment, and I would recommend it as it’s highly customizable. You’re going to be pooling rage, which will lead to moments where you think you need to use heroic strike.. but you’re going to have to hold off using it for colossus smash.

Why do we pool rage? Colossus smash. When Colossus Smash occurs, you're going to want to shove as many abilities as possible in that 6 second window, and if possible you want to save an incite proc as well for this. If you have timers, I would HIGHLY suggest that you place Colossus Smash as one of your timers so that you know when it’s about to come up so you’re not like “Oh %***, I have no rage.”

So when Colossus Smash happens, in a perfect world it would like this:

CS-Bt-Slam-Bt
With 2 heroic strikes thrown in.

If for some reason you do not have a slam proc, it is fine to throw in a raging blow instead.

If you’re rage starved (<50 rage), do not use heroic strike unless you have an incite proc.

The reason you want to pool rage as much as possible is that to do the entire rotation in 6 seconds it will require 120 rage without raging blow, 140 with it. That means that if you pool 80 rage for CS, you'll need to have a rage income of 40-60 over the next 6 seconds to make this work effectively. Generally you will have enough rage, as with most gear setups you probably have an average Rage Generation per Second of anywhere between 12-14, which means that in 6 seconds on average you gain 72-84 rage. Of course anyone who has actually played fury will tell you that our rage generation is not very reliable as hit-cap is not feasible nor is it even recommended even trying to hit, and a string of misses could lead to you being rage starved over this 6 second period, which is why we want to pool as much rage as possible to counteract RNG.

Effective colossus smash usage is THE most important part of this rotation.

Execute phase:

Execute is no longer our hardest hitting ability as blizzard buffed everything else and to make this easy… you’re basically only going to use execute to maintain the 25% haste buff and as an extreme rage dump.

When it’s ok to execute:

Getting stacks of executioner up to 5, or when executioner is going to expire in 2 seconds.
Rage is above 50, or the boss is going to die in the next 3 seconds and you need to empty out your rage bar.
As a filler during colossus smash, if you don’t have a slam proc, you can do BT_Execute_BT instead.

You will no longer use raging blow during execute phase unless you have more than 13 mastery. Execute is more rage-efficient due to the nerf raging blow took recently, if you have more than 13 mastery go ahead and use raging blow as normal.

Keeping executioner up is your highest priority. It doesn't matter what you're doing, if it's about to run out... execute.

Generally during execute phase your rage income is high enough that your rotation will end up being BT-Exe-Bt-(slam proc?)-Bt-Exe, with very very few free GCDs.
Stat Priority:

Freaking raging blow changes, I've reforged, swapped out gear/cogwheels twice this week now.

SEP values:
1 Strength is worth roughly 3.07 dps.

Str: 1
Expertise: Cap it
Hit: .43 (Above 8%)
Crit: .56
Haste: .36
Mastery: .38

STR > 8% hit > 6.5% expertise > crit > 8-13% hit => mastery > 27% hit > haste

Higher ilevels will always win out, but if you can get a piece of gear that is better itemized at the same ilevel, go for it.

It appears that after further testing (with really awkward attempts at throwing environmental damage into simcraft) that the value of hit/mastery will be relatively close to each other once you go past 8-13% hit.

It will ultimately come down to each encounter.

Encounters that are largely tank n spank will value hit higher than mastery.

Encounters that have burn phases, add-switching or a lot of environmental damage will value mastery higher than hit.

It also depends on your level of gear. The more haste/crit you have, the less hit you need. Crit/haste give you additional rage, just not as efficiently as hit does. In BIS 372 gear it's probable that we'll be down to 8% hit just like TG.

If you're just looking for a number to shoot for, if you're part of the "Average" raiding guild then 13% hit will be a good number for you to go for. Anything below 13% will depend on what you are doing. For normal mode raiding hit will probably be a better stat, but for heroic raiding mastery will be better as there are generally more burn phases, add-switching and environmental damage.

The value of mastery will go up slightly once you have over 14 mastery as you'll no longer ignore raging blow during execute.

However, anyone who says "OMG I GAINED LIKE 1K-3K DPS WHEN I SWITCHED FROM HIT TO MASTERY" is delusional and using horrible testing parameters. The most you can hope for (on average) will be a 300-500 dps increase when swinging from one extreme to the other.

:Edit: Just as additional information, here's a post I made in another thread that hopefully will help out. It's mostly aimed toward titan's grip as they do prefer mastery after 8% hit, but the idea behind it is still true for SMF.

The value of hit comes from a couple of sources:

1: Additional white attacks, which deal damage and give rage. Generally anything over 8% is pushed into heroic strike, which isn't a very rage efficient attack but it is still extra damage that you didn't have beforehand.
2: Reducing RNG. This gives you more room to "@%*% up" while playing and not be punished as hard. An example would be spamming heroic strike too much. If you spam HS too much and can rely more on your white attacks hitting, you won't be rage starved as often.
3: Enrage uptime. While 1% of hit doesn't necessarily lead to a 1% increase in enrage uptime, it is noticeable.

If you're an amazing player who manages his rage and monitors enrage uptime, playing with 8% hit is all you ever need for titan's grip. Sure, occasionally the RNG gods will conspire against you and you'll get rage-screwed, but for the most part you'll be able to maintain a consistent rotation and maximize your damage.

If you're not an amazing player, then additional hit will cover up you not being so awesome. The overall damage difference in running with 8% hit or 13% hit is only going to be 100-200 dps, so it's not really going to break the bank if you decide to run with extra hit.

/applaud

Good guide, tyvm.
My stab at a BIS SMF setup.
http://chardev.org/?profile=33779

It's pretty generic. Chardev doesn't have 4.0.6 ##%* in there like Synapse springs (480 str) and the new metas. Just replace that meta with the STR+Crit one.

The rest of the gear really isn't hard to pick because Blizzard just doesn't give us a lot of options. You can swap out a ring for a ring from TTFW with the proper itemization, that's about it.

I’m not going to hold hands with gear/gem/enchant selections. I will throw a few pieces of advice related to tier and weapon select though.

WEAPONS
As SMF Fury, ALWAYS use STR 2.6 speed weapons. This is actually quite easy as Blizzard hasn't itemized any STR weapons below 2.6 speed.

Always go for higher ilevel, then look at the stats. Follow the stat priority I have set up for you. Unfortunately there aren't a lot of STR 2.6 weapons in the game at the moment, so you may have to settle for a subpar weapon due to bad luck.

If you raid, Lava Spine is the best weapon you can possibly get and drops from Magmaw. Naturally the heroic version is better. If the RNG gods love you, you can also pickup a weapon from heroic Al'akir with random stats on it that could possibly be better than the heroic lava spine.

REGARDING TIER 11
In order to pickup the 4 piece bonus you can either get it via the helm/chest/shoulders/pants or swap out the shoulders for the gloves. The difference is minimal, and will probably just be determined by how easy it is for you to pickup a tier token.


If anyone is interested in the ability priority list that I'm putting into simulationcraft for 4.0.6, here it is.

A shout out goes to Deathwing on the EJ forums. We did some work together on the priority list and this is the final version that he eventually came out with. It's good stuff.

Please be aware that once your mastery goes above 14-15 you will move raging blow to a higher priority than execute, and the rage numbers in the heroic strike code are highly gear dependent. You can generally tweak them within 5-10 and get better/worse numbers depending on your items.

actions=flask,type=titanic_strength
actions+=/food,type=beer_basted_crocolisk
actions+=/stance,choose=berserker,if=!in_combat
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/golemblood_potion,if=!in_combat|buff.bloodlust.react
actions+=/auto_attack
actions+=/recklessness
actions+=/death_wish
actions+=/heroic_strike,if=((rage>85&target.health_pct>=20)|buff.battle_trance.up|((buff.incite.up|buff.colossus_smash.up)&((rage>=50&target.health_pct>=20)|(rage>=75&target.health_pct<20))))
actions+=/execute,if=buff.executioner_talent.remains<1.5
actions+=/colossus_smash
actions+=/execute,if=buff.executioner_talent.stack<5
actions+=/bloodthirst
actions+=/slam,if=buff.bloodsurge.react
actions+=/execute,if=rage>=50
actions+=/berserker_rage,if=!(buff.death_wish.up|buff.enrage.up|buff.unholy_frenzy.up)&rage>15&cooldown.raging_blow.remains<1
actions+=/raging_blow
actions+=/battle_shout,if=rage<70


Future of this guide:
I'll update it as long as I'm playing. I'm not entirely sure if it's necessary anymore as 4.0.6 removed a lot of the differences between TG and SMF, but I'll keep it up.
I went to go check your ranked logs to see dmg breakdown but didn't see any.

Are they somewhere besides voodoo's ranked players?

Interesting with mostly ignoring raging blow though, I tried it prioritizing slam over RB but keeping rotations similar and it just felt too RNG.
I went to go check your ranked logs to see dmg breakdown but didn't see any.

Are they somewhere besides voodoo's ranked players?

Interesting with mostly ignoring raging blow though, I tried it prioritizing slam over RB but keeping rotations similar and it just felt too RNG.


I've been tanking a lot recently so it's possible that I've dropped out of some of them as I was in the 150+ range.

Note: These logs may expire by the time you read this. If for some reason they are, you can just check my guilds logs in general. I tank a lot, so I may not be on there everytime, and we're currently progressing on heroic encounters so it's probably going to be incredibly messy.

Recent log:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2pdc6ky830l09ha4/
How do feel SMF is going to look with the heroic strike stomping that is going on next patch? Especially with blizzard attempting to make up the damage loss by boosting raging blow. I haven't tried it in a rading situation but the fact that i saw a 1500dps loss on dummy tests makes me think that the 15% increase to heroic strike in high rage raid buffed situations is all that keeps it on par with TG as it is.

Also I'm wondering why you dislike mastery as SMF so much. Sure raging blow isnt that great but one of the major perks of SMF is the higher uptime of the enrage buff and would not more mastery exploit that to its extent. Especially because haste is terrible for everyone simply because of the HUGE amount of rating it requires to see even a slight bonus
01/09/2011 5:32 PMPosted by Angryllama
How do feel SMF is going to look with the heroic strike stomping that is going on next patch? Especially with blizzard attempting to make up the damage loss by boosting raging blow. I haven't tried it in a rading situation but the fact that i saw a 1500dps loss on dummy tests makes me think that the 15% increase to heroic strike in high rage raid buffed situations is all that keeps it on par with TG as it is.

Also I'm wondering why you dislike mastery as SMF so much. Sure raging blow isnt that great but one of the major perks of SMF is the higher uptime of the enrage buff and would not more mastery exploit that to its extent. Especially because haste is terrible for everyone simply because of the HUGE amount of rating it requires to see even a slight bonus


:edit: Updated third post to reflect current PTR knowledge
01/09/2011 6:12 PMPosted by Cramer
Some of the information in there is wrong.


I'm open to suggestions. I could have typo'd something or have not looked at SMF from a particular angle, but you need to give a little more detail than "Some of the information is wrong."

One problem with my approach is that I don't have anyone to bounce ideas off of, as a majority of theorycrafting is directed towards Titan's Grip. I'd love to hear how you approach SMF, as it appears you've be fairly successful (At least when it comes to slaying dragons) with whatever methodology you are going for.
[quote]

Well to be honest I am really just winging it based of guesstamating. Currently I'm using RB in my rotation and have seen a dps increase vs trying to not use it. Same when I tried to take HS out of the rotation. Like you said there really isn't any theorycrafting on smf atm. So far I'm the only warrior doing top 50 parses on fights that is smf.


You have a pretty solid gear advantage over me. I'll try and make sure I don't tank this week so I can get a better idea of how SMF performs on every encounter. I managed top 50 parses on twin dragons and Argaloth this week, but unfortunately on other encounters I tend to tank or do something that requires me to do sub-par dps to ensure a kill.

Such as on Council, we're an incredibly heavy melee raid (Which we're trying to cut down on), so in order to properly split up damage we put our fury warriors on Feludius, which leads to sub-par parses as we're constantly running in and out to avoid glaciate and getting knocked around all the time.

But simply comparing apples to apples on a "tank n spank" encounter, it appears that my parse of twin dragons was slightly better than yours, even though we took 30 seconds longer to kill the boss.

My log:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/q3kxg30ehj07iu6r/sum/damageDone/?s=10611&e=10957

vs your log:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8wjyzgbfrgaiqi80/sum/damageDone/?s=1026&e=1340

A 2k difference is pretty significant on an encounter where you outgear me and kill the boss faster. It's possible that you were RNG'd, but there's not really a lot of RNG going on in that encounter for melee to worry about. It looks like you stopped attacking for a short period, but I'm not sure if that's a 2k difference.

I truly believe that dropping raging blow is a necessity for us at this juncture, and to use the rage that you would have spent on heroic strike instead. Part of this requires you to be 7/31/3 so that you can get that much more power out of your heroic strikes, which may be why you didn't feel it was worth dropping RB.
Yeah, Flurry RNG hurts. That's part of the reason why I'm starting to believe that 13-14% hit is best, as even 1% extra crit adds significant uptime on flurry at these low ratings.

Halfus is great for SMF. Any fight where you can cleave for an extended period puts SMF above TG thanks to the 15% damage increase on cleave. I wish I didn't have to tank it. =(

I'd give smf a shot, but I think i'd have to juggle my stats around quite a bit more than i've already had getting tg down ><. They should really just lump the two specs together and give us a talent point.


The stat priority for TG and SMF isn't really different. With the model that I'm using SMF generally requires less hit than TG, but other than that the "priorities" are exactly the same.

TG:
Str > 8% hit > 26 Exp > 16-20% hit > crit > 27% hit > haste >> mastery
SMF:
Str > 8% hit > 26 Exp > 13-18% hit > crit > 27% hit > haste >>>>>>> mastery

Some people are saying that you can go even lower on hit than these numbers, but it would require holding off on heroic strike as much as possible to ensure a consistent rotation as 2-3 misses in a row with Titan's Grip swing-speeds can suck your rage dry for 2 GCDs.

I've been playing SMF (Have double Lava Spines from magmaw) but I'll switch to TG after the patch if the changes go through. I just can't see SMF keeping up with TG with such a giant nerf to SMF's best/most important attack and a buff to it's worst/least important.

I find that 15% hit 25% crit is a really nice number for me (with crit increasing and hit staying the same as my gear gets better)
I tried skipping RB as SMF after reading this, and it certainly was doing better then when I used it before. However, I still find that using TG with two heroic axes is doing 1-3k more for me then SMF with 2 epic weapons. :-\
TG deals more DPS. PERIOD. Why?

1 - TG allows 2 weapons with not only better final dmg, but also better stats. More crit, more str, more dmg.

2 - The % bonus from haste applied to TG works better on slower weapons than faster ones, so SMF lacks of speed. 25% haste on a 4 seconds weapon means 1 s less between attacks. 25% on a 2.4 secs weapon means 0,6 s less. So TG will benefit more from haste than SMF.

3 - There are so few SMF weapons in the game that I wanna cry (I love fury old school).

4 - The % DMG bonus SMF gives doesn't mach same ilvl. Example:

Sword of the Bottomless Pit vs Buzz Saw

AVG dmg = 2098,5 Avg Dmg = 1065
+15% = 1224,75

I'm not taking in consideration here the DPS of the weapon, although they are NOT the same cause our skills are based on weapon dmg not DPS.

However, if you take a look at the DPS of the weapon, you'll realize that the 2 H sword I posted has 552,2 DPS, while the same ilvl 1h Sword I posted has 409,6.

As long as this patch is live, there isn't a single sword 1H with the same DPS as that 346 2H. And for that I'd say that SMF wont ever be a match to TG.

1 handers would need a buff in order to make them usable for SMF warriors.
Finally, some info on this sub spec. I love it ^.^

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