SMF and you. Updated 4.0.6.

Warrior
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I didn't think this would be worth a thread of its own, so I might as well ask here:

Is SMF good for PvP? Arena? A simple answer will suffice, thanks.


Its fallen down a few pages but theres a big thread here
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2057325819
Internet has been all sorts of *!%@ty lately. Raiding via a cell phone tether is about as enjoyable as dipping my junk in a blender.

Anyway.

I'm looking into the 4.1 changes now, simulationcraft was finally updated to reflect the changes. I don't think our rotation is going to change much, but heroic strike is going to be used more simply because of rage generation being more "Spikey" due to the flurry changes.

We're still going to be bursty threat-wise in the first 20 seconds, but not as much.
The flurry changes really do not help out much. The only reason it's advantageous for flurry to swing faster is if you manage to get additional swings out of it over the course of the entire encounter. Right now with crit ratings as low as they are, we've effectively using every "Charge" of flurry because we don't crit more than once every 4-5 attacks.

Here's the average amount of mainhand swings I'm currently getting over a 400 second fight.

215

With the flurry changes.

217

Woohoo?

Don't get me wrong, the buffed flurry will help out over the long run as ratings start to ramp up.. but until we start to run with 30%+ crit, these flurry changes aren't going to change much.

If flurry wasn't based on "Charges" and instead was based on "Lasts 3-5 seconds", then this would be a tremendous buff. As it stands it's a "Meh" buff.
How did you see those numbers and think they could be accurate? You are out of your mind if you think doubling flurry could possibly result in only 2 extra MH swings over the course of a fight. It's a tremendous buff. Unfortunately, the CS and base mastery nerfs will outweigh its gain.
03/02/2011 11:25 PMPosted by Rallik
How did you see those numbers and think they could be accurate? You are out of your mind if you think doubling flurry could possibly result in only 2 extra MH swings over the course of a fight. It's a tremendous buff. Unfortunately, the CS and base mastery nerfs will outweigh its gain.


It's a tremendous buff in the long-run, but right now it's just not that great due to lower crit ratings.

I'm using simulationcraft to get numbers, it's possible that there's a bug with the program. It's the only way to get any sort of accurate modeling of PTR vs Live, so I'm just working with the tools I have.

There's only a .3~ second difference between 25% and 50% haste swings, and typically our flurry uptime is around 50-60% depending on gear-level. So you're shaving off .3 seconds off every swing over 50% of an 400 second encounter.

I'm too tired to do the exact math, but at best it will add up to 10 extra MH swings in an entire encounter. That's not exactly game-breaking.

03/03/2011 12:03 AMPosted by Collision
How did you see those numbers and think they could be accurate? You are out of your mind if you think doubling flurry could possibly result in only 2 extra MH swings over the course of a fight. It's a tremendous buff. Unfortunately, the CS and base mastery nerfs will outweigh its gain.


It's a tremendous buff in the long-run, but right now it's just not that great due to lower crit ratings.

I'm using simulationcraft to get numbers, it's possible that there's a bug with the program. It's the only way to get any sort of accurate modeling of PTR vs Live, so I'm just working with the tools I have.

There's only a .3~ second difference between 25% and 50% haste swings, and typically our flurry uptime is around 50-60% depending on gear-level. So you're shaving off .3 seconds off every swing over 50% of an 400 second encounter.

I'm too tired to do the exact math, but at best it will add up to 10 extra MH swings in an entire encounter. That's not exactly game-breaking.


50% would be like blue gear uptime. I see ~65% typically, so we'll go with 60% for average gear. Flurry uptime will naturally dip a tad when it's buffed, so we'll overexaggerate that effect and assume it drops down to 55% uptime at 50%. Comparing the two gives you an average haste gain of (1+.5*.55)/(1+.25*.6) = 10.9%. So, you can expect a 10.9% increase in MH/OH swings, which would be more around 24 swings over the course of a fight if you had 215 prior to the buff.

Between the extra white damage and rage gen, it would be a good 1500 DPS gain if it weren't for the other nerfs that are coming with it. TG will benefit even more thanks to higher flurry uptimes(~75%).
I'll re-run my numbers, what you're saying makes sense. I'll readily admit faults/errors in my theorycrafting. =)
So I'm still trying to figure out why mastery is supposedly better than hit.

I mean look at this Rallik guy. He's clearly going for hit rather than mastery and he's ranking on #!#@ on WoL.

Definitely going to reforge my mastery to hit now.
Rallik is my hero.
So I'm still trying to figure out why mastery is supposedly better than hit.

I mean look at this Rallik guy. He's clearly going for hit rather than mastery and he's ranking on #!#@ on WoL.

Definitely going to reforge my mastery to hit now.


There are plenty of people ranked on WoL that are reforging hit to mastery as well. If you read my 3rd post on the first page I go into an explanation of the reasoning behind the choices, and why ultimately it's not going to be a huge dps difference if you pick one or the other because of how close their values are.

:edit:

* Precision (passive) now increase auto-attack damage by 40%, in addition to the 3% hit it offers currently.

Jeez. Blizzard is really moving our damage into autoattacks. Also, the flurry changes aren't even important as it looks like they were removed already.
With that precision bonus I'm expecting hit to be above mastery, but in general I kinda strayed away from fury, they are #!@@ing with that tree just a little bit too much for my liking so it's not enjoyable.
03/03/2011 9:36 PMPosted by Adeezy
With that precision bonus I'm expecting hit to be above mastery



So with Precision giving the AA 40% buff, which way does SEP value for haste go from here? Up or down? My brain would say up since haste directly buffs auto attack speed....but I'm not the math whiz....

So can somebody throw some numbers out there for this? New SEP values? Just for theorycraft

Thanks.
03/03/2011 9:36 PMPosted by Adeezy
With that precision bonus I'm expecting hit to be above mastery, but in general I kinda strayed away from fury, they are #!@@ing with that tree just a little bit too much for my liking so it's not enjoyable.


Hit is already above Mastery for SMF. With the Precision buff, this gap will do anything but decrease. I have a feeling haste will still be a worthless stat relative to Crit and Hit.

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