Dear Zarhym,

General Discussion
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07/30/2015 07:00 PMPosted by Zarhym
07/30/2015 05:47 PMPosted by Nanooka
...

You may not be able to get say much, but a small little pop in saying you at least saw and are relaying the topics would be HUGE. When people see no responces even though we may believe you guys are listening it starts to look otherwise. The players are just as passionate of the game as you guys are and simple small acknowledgements would go a long way to have people at least know you saw the post. Especialy with the big hot topics. I really feel sorry for the pvp'ers. those poor buggers don't get any info at all.and every suggestion seems to be countered with another terrible idea.

I won't say that's a bad idea and I don't mean to come off as stubborn here. In principle I agree with you and we've done those types of acknowledging responses in the past. Sometimes, though, the acknowledgement creates a separate issue unto itself from the "we're being ignored" perception, in that people sometimes take the acknowledgement as an indication of action on our part. At first it's a pretty innocent, positive thing to show acknowledgement. But, depending on what the feedback is about, some people will ask why we haven't done anything about it 24 hours later, a week later, a month later, what have you.

It creates an almost cyclical pattern where people still feel ignored if we let the acknowledgement sit alone and linger without more input from us, except it can create even more tension 'cause we're viewed as blatantly disregarding something we previously acknowledged. Now suddenly we're viewed as willfully or stubbornly ignoring a topic we've clearly seen. The act of acknowledging is just another empty gesture at that point.

Again, I'm not saying it's never a good idea. It usually depends on the circumstances. But those are just things we have to think about and weigh before tagging something in blue. As I said earlier in the thread, the blue tends to bring a lot more attention to a topic. If we throw acknowledgements around without more meaningful input to provide as a follow-up, or without some type of clear design reaction, after a while it's going to come across as insincere, and synonymous with ignoring the issue anyway.

The field of Communications can be pretty complicated, even when you want to keep things as simple, transparent, and honest as possible. No matter what type of community is formed around something, especially online, people will dissect everything that's said, pick statements apart, reinterpret words, band together over common beliefs/opinions, drift toward whatever popular theories are going around, etc. And I don't mean any of this in a cynical or condescending way. It's just sort of how we're wired, and the internet adds a whole other element to social behavior in a community. If that makes sense... :p


Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?
07/30/2015 05:50 PMPosted by Yoduhde
07/30/2015 05:40 PMPosted by Tiresias
...

I know I may come off as harsh and I really am sorry for that. I try to treat the CMs with respect because this is their job. It is how they take care of themselves and feed their families. Hopefully it is something they love to do as well but I still cannot help my feelings. Lied to, deceived, a fool and just plain stupid for still playing WoW when I feel they really don't give a damn. Holding to adult conduct would not let me full express these feeling if I cannot say "blizzard lies", no matter how over the top the statement seems.


I'm sorry you feel that way. Really I am. I understand you feel let down for whatever reason. We've all been there.

And here's the thing: This is a video game forum. It should be a place where people can come to enjoy then game. If you feel you can't offer criticism - including that you're very disappointed that Blizzard didn't follow through on a promised feature or plan - in an adult way, then that post has no place here.

That goes for me as well.

I'd love to talk separately about the whole "Blizzard lied" thing, but it's a bit off topic. In a nutshell, I don't think Blizzard ever intends to break promises to the playerbase unless they feel they have to (design decisions, things not working out as intended, etc). I think ascribing some kind of malicious intent to the developers for those decisions is what makes the post childish and hateful. And I think in adult conversation, we could do without that.

That being said, I think it's certainly understandable to say "well, you guys have said some things in the past, and then gone back on them for various reasons, so I'm not going to get hyped until I see the final product."

That's an incredibly fair and logical assessment. I can understand why some people imply more malicious intent on our part, but this post really hit the nail on the head. We all work here because we love video games -- we want to contribute and provide people with awesome entertainment experiences. We really take it to heart when we fail to deliver in any shape or form.
07/30/2015 07:00 PMPosted by Zarhym
It creates an almost cyclical pattern where people still feel ignored if we let the acknowledgement sit alone and linger without more input from us, except it can create even more tension 'cause we're viewed as blatantly disregarding something we previously acknowledged. Now suddenly we're viewed as willfully or stubbornly ignoring a topic we've clearly seen. The act of acknowledging is just another empty gesture at that point.


More or less the thought process I went through when I tried to imagine why you guys wouldn't post something like "hey guys, lots of good discussion here, just want you to know we're watching the thread. carry on". It could also create an environment where it felt like every thread that *didn't* have a blue drop in, was being ignored.

Which leads me to this question: do you guys ever post on normal accounts? Participate in a discussion posing as another player, so as to mitigate the influence and impact the blue text has?
I like seeing blue posts around.
Zarhym, Thanks >:) I cannot wait until next week, this was perfectly worded!
07/30/2015 07:06 PMPosted by Turbografx
Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?
Oh, geez. This made me laugh way more than it should have.

07/30/2015 07:11 PMPosted by Snowfox
I like seeing blue posts around.
Me too. I hope it becomes more of a habit. Maybe if we promise not to bring the torches and pitchforks.
Thankyou Zarhym, I do not want *hype, I just want honest info, info that is more certain than uncertain, I want to see players returned to a world that beckons the players to play with-in it, not one that players have to be pushed into via the return of a long time ability removed and restored.

A successful expansion is one players want to be in, not one that something removed is returned so long as players then head into the world.
While Zarhym is in the thread, a number of "leaks" are being talked about from the same person who leaked Warlords of Draenor, and I know you can't answer me regarding whether they're true or not, but are you aware of these and could you give me any opinion regarding such?
07/30/2015 07:11 PMPosted by Snowfox
I like seeing blue posts around.


To be fair lore has been pretty prominent in the forums especially dealing with the unhappy pvpers lately, hes a fire kitty though so he's immune to the flaming I guess.

It is nice to see a bit more of it though.
I'm really, really sorry Zarhym, but after your amazing forumness, I still had to kill you in Diablo 3 tonight. Don't worry, it was over quickly. You suffered very little. Your loot sucked though.

*edit* You attacked first by the way. I just wanted to say hi =(
07/30/2015 07:10 PMPosted by Grralt
Which leads me to this question: do you guys ever post on normal accounts? Participate in a discussion posing as another player, so as to mitigate the influence and impact the blue text has?

No. It feels too shady. I chat with folks on my characters in the game like anyone else, but it just feels different on the forums. When we're not posting as actively on the forums we're often looking at things on a more macro scale -- including using some Community Management System tools behind the scenes for data analysis -- figuring out what are the common points of feedback and such, so for me it'd feel too much like meddling to jump in "anonymously."
Ouch...I got ignored.
07/30/2015 07:20 PMPosted by Zarhym
07/30/2015 07:10 PMPosted by Grralt
Which leads me to this question: do you guys ever post on normal accounts? Participate in a discussion posing as another player, so as to mitigate the influence and impact the blue text has?

No. It feels too shady. I chat with folks on my characters in the game like anyone else, but it just feels different on the forums. When we're not posting as actively on the forums we're often looking at things on a more macro scale -- including using some Community Management System tools behind the scenes for data analysis -- figuring out what are the common points of feedback and such, so for me it'd feel too much like meddling to jump in "anonymously."


This is slightly related.

Marry me? So I can be privy to all the knowledge of future wow stuff you are :p
07/30/2015 07:00 PMPosted by Zarhym
07/30/2015 05:47 PMPosted by Nanooka
...

You may not be able to get say much, but a small little pop in saying you at least saw and are relaying the topics would be HUGE. When people see no responces even though we may believe you guys are listening it starts to look otherwise. The players are just as passionate of the game as you guys are and simple small acknowledgements would go a long way to have people at least know you saw the post. Especialy with the big hot topics. I really feel sorry for the pvp'ers. those poor buggers don't get any info at all.and every suggestion seems to be countered with another terrible idea.

I won't say that's a bad idea and I don't mean to come off as stubborn here. In principle I agree with you and we've done those types of acknowledging responses in the past. Sometimes, though, the acknowledgement creates a separate issue unto itself from the "we're being ignored" perception, in that people sometimes take the acknowledgement as an indication of action on our part. At first it's a pretty innocent, positive thing to show acknowledgement. But, depending on what the feedback is about, some people will ask why we haven't done anything about it 24 hours later, a week later, a month later, what have you.

It creates an almost cyclical pattern where people still feel ignored if we let the acknowledgement sit alone and linger without more input from us, except it can create even more tension 'cause we're viewed as blatantly disregarding something we previously acknowledged. Now suddenly we're viewed as willfully or stubbornly ignoring a topic we've clearly seen. The act of acknowledging is just another empty gesture at that point.

Again, I'm not saying it's never a good idea. It usually depends on the circumstances. But those are just things we have to think about and weigh before tagging something in blue. As I said earlier in the thread, the blue tends to bring a lot more attention to a topic. If we throw acknowledgements around without more meaningful input to provide as a follow-up, or without some type of clear design reaction, after a while it's going to come across as insincere, and synonymous with ignoring the issue anyway.

The field of Communications can be pretty complicated, even when you want to keep things as simple, transparent, and honest as possible. No matter what type of community is formed around something, especially online, people will dissect everything that's said, pick statements apart, reinterpret words, band together over common beliefs/opinions, drift toward whatever popular theories are going around, etc. And I don't mean any of this in a cynical or condescending way. It's just sort of how we're wired, and the internet adds a whole other element to social behavior in a community. If that makes sense... :p


That's a fair response, and after reading can understand the whys and reasoning behind it. I guess its a tougher spot to be in than most realize, including myself. I do still think that even if its not you guys maybe responding there should be some kind of update posts somewhere on the hot topic items. I still think a bit more communication can quell a lot of the negativity that I myself will admit to expressing. Thank yoy for the response. I really do appreciate it.
07/30/2015 07:19 PMPosted by Omnífiend
I'm really, really sorry Zarhym, but after your amazing forumness, I still had to kill you in Diablo 3 tonight. Don't worry, it was over quickly. You suffered very little. Your loot sucked though.

I never mind! I always encourage people to kill me without hesitation or remorse in Diablo III. ;) I only feel bad when I don't give good loot.
07/30/2015 07:23 PMPosted by Zarhym
07/30/2015 07:19 PMPosted by Omnífiend
I'm really, really sorry Zarhym, but after your amazing forumness, I still had to kill you in Diablo 3 tonight. Don't worry, it was over quickly. You suffered very little. Your loot sucked though.

I never mind! I always encourage people to kill me without hesitation or remorse in Diablo III. ;) I only feel bad when I don't give good loot.


Your forum avatar has always reminded me of the Skull Trap spell from Baldur's Gate, easily my favorite spell. Random thought of the day.

Anyways, keep on rocking, and thanks a lot for taking time out of your evening to post here.
I gotta say, I like it when the CMs posts with some detail about the processes that go on, like Zarhym's doing here. I'm on the forums a hell of a lot, and I've found that the posts do slowly start to influence me, generally giving me a more and more negative view of Blizzard as a company.

But then something happens, like panels at Blizzcon, or some good, comprehensive posts from CMs, or that WoW documentary that went up on the Internet like a year ago, or some sort of notable interview from Blizzard staff themselves.. And that kinda snaps me back into positivity mode when it comes to WoW. It reminds me that the developers are people too, it reminds me that they're not perfect, but yes, they're trying their absolute best to make the best game they can, even if not everything works out. And that's a place I like to be at, it makes me happy.
07/30/2015 07:23 PMPosted by Zarhym
07/30/2015 07:19 PMPosted by Omnífiend
I'm really, really sorry Zarhym, but after your amazing forumness, I still had to kill you in Diablo 3 tonight. Don't worry, it was over quickly. You suffered very little. Your loot sucked though.

I never mind! I always encourage people to kill me without hesitation or remorse in Diablo III. ;) I only feel bad when I don't give good loot.


WTB like buttom for blues.
07/30/2015 02:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
We want to share what lies

OMG, at last, proof that Bliz wants to lie to us!!

Idiot disclaimer: This post is strictly tongue in cheek of a quote taken waaaay out of context.

I like seeing blue posts around.

Totally - I gotta say, even if it does get some people in a tizzy micro parsing everything said, I do think it's good for morale to have regular blue communication, even if they don't have anything in particular to communicate.

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