Dear Zarhym,

General Discussion
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07/30/2015 02:45 PMPosted by Malveillance
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Is that not hype? lol

I mean, that's the thing. Hype is innately a part of announcing a thing. I've just seen a lot of people talk about our "hype machine" in a highly cynical fashion lately. I know it's because we've announced some things and then changed our plans or cut them further along in development.

I'll just say that we're sensitive to that. Our intent is never to share big ideas or plans purely for the purposes of generating additional hype. All that's going to do is breed frustration and mistrust down the road. None of us chose careers in snake oil sales.


You've done it now!
07/30/2015 02:45 PMPosted by Malveillance
...

Is that not hype? lol

I mean, that's the thing. Hype is innately a part of announcing a thing. I've just seen a lot of people talk about our "hype machine" in a highly cynical fashion lately. I know it's because we've announced some things and then changed our plans or cut them further along in development.

I'll just say that we're sensitive to that. Our intent is never to share big ideas or plans purely for the purposes of generating additional hype. All that's going to do is breed frustration and mistrust down the road. None of us chose careers in snake oil sales.

Snake Oil! My ssseventh favorite for lubing my joints!
07/30/2015 02:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
I trust that many people in this community can check any baggage they might have at the door and earnestly step into the announcement with us.
Heh, the avoidance PR begins. 'We're not here to talk about WoD. Let's focus on the future.' Get ready to hear that a lot.
07/30/2015 02:49 PMPosted by Newshoes
07/30/2015 02:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
simply just a little worn out from spending so many years playing this game


So sick of listening to this excuse, stop blaming bad game design on people just getting "tired" of playing.

C'mon, man. You removed the first part of my sentence in your quote where I specifically brought up players being frustrated with aspects of Warlords. That doesn't mean fatigue isn't a factor for anyone who's played this game for a long time.

I could even say: stop blaming game design for every player who takes a break or leaves. The number of people who have ever played World of Warcraft is astounding, and it breaks down into endlessly diverse populations containing immeasurably diverse opinions. But no, you're right, in that none of that excuses design flaws. :)
07/30/2015 02:56 PMPosted by Zarhym
I mean, that's the thing. Hype is innately a part of announcing a thing. I've just seen a lot of people talk about our "hype machine" in a highly cynical fashion lately. I know it's because we've announced some things and then changed our plans or cut them further along in development.

I'll just say that we're sensitive to that. Our intent is never to share big ideas or plans purely for the purposes of generating additional hype. All that's going to do is breed frustration and mistrust down the road. None of us chose careers in snake oil sales.


I'm willing to wager most people are less concerned about Blizzard changing the plans, more about cutting them and replacing them with nothing.

You've seen the thread that stacks up what WoD offered content-wise compared to the other expansions. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/18300225985 - generally about half the content we've come to expect from a Blizzard expansion.

The only thing WoD had more of was cost - being $50. You have to be more than just sensitive to the fact that I'm sure there's a few players out there who are feeling just a bit burned right now.
07/30/2015 03:13 PMPosted by Zarhym
C'mon, man. You removed the first part of my sentence in your quote where I specifically brought up players being frustrated with aspects of Warlords. That doesn't mean fatigue isn't a factor for anyone who's played this game for a long time.

I could even say: stop blaming game design for every player who takes a break or leaves. The number of people who have ever played World of Warcraft is astounding, and it breaks down into endlessly diverse populations containing immeasurably diverse opinions. But no, you're right, in that none of that excuses design flaws. :)


Fair enough. I will keep an open mind next Thursday but I remain skeptical. I will continue playing WOW regardless. I just hope you got some great stuff lined up.
07/30/2015 02:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
Don't tease me to tease you about being teased! (I got lost writing that.)

Seriously, even though there are people frustrated with aspects of Warlords, or simply just a little worn out from spending so many years playing this game, I hope your curiosity about what we've got cooking is still there. It should be a fun event next week. I trust that many people in this community can check any baggage they might have at the door and earnestly step into the announcement with us.

It's not just about building hype either. We want to share what lies ahead and get some new conversations going. :)

I can say no more!


fine sir - i don't think anyone is actually "just a little worn out from spending so many years playing this game". some people have been playing wow for 10 years. For crying out loud, most marriages don't last that long........

I think people care profoundly deeply about wow, and just want this disfunctional relationship to start prospering again.

just my opinion, good fine sir.
07/30/2015 02:49 PMPosted by Nightelfbane
07/30/2015 02:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
It's not just about building hype either. We want to share what lies ahead and get some new conversations going. :)


And then, when people don't like what lies ahead and start talking about it, locking those new coversations!

I don't know if that's an honest comment or more of a jab. But either way, I've been moderating and posting in blue on Blizzard forums for 9 years now, and never has there been a time where we've tried to completely stamp out honest conversations of opinions about the game or speculation of what's to come -- at least not simply on the merit that the opinions being expressed on a given topic are largely negative.

Anyone who reads this and wonders why specific threads they were involved in were deleted in the past, the answer is almost definitely in our forum posting guidelines and Code of Conduct. Nowhere in those guidelines, however, does it say that you aren't allowed to share a negative opinion of the game. For real!
Hype is always overhyped. But it's fun to speculate and look forward to nonetheless.

I mean, I know this expansion won't live up to my expectations- I want everyone to have a moose mount, my pink dress to be transmoggable so I can wear it, and the ability to grow ten times my size.

That way I can ride my moose to battle wearing my pink dress as a giant creature and shout "THIS IS FOR CUPCAKE!"
...and no one will understand how or why I do this.

...I mean like I said, it will never live up to that expectation, but I can imagine.
07/30/2015 03:13 PMPosted by Zarhym
07/30/2015 02:49 PMPosted by Newshoes
...

So sick of listening to this excuse, stop blaming bad game design on people just getting "tired" of playing.

C'mon, man. You removed the first part of my sentence in your quote where I specifically brought up players being frustrated with aspects of Warlords. That doesn't mean fatigue isn't a factor for anyone who's played this game for a long time.

I could even say: stop blaming game design for every player who takes a break or leaves. The number of people who have ever played World of Warcraft is astounding, and it breaks down into endlessly diverse populations containing immeasurably diverse opinions. But no, you're right, in that none of that excuses design flaws. :)
Just tell the team that they have to step up their game (pun intended), make positive changes that players actually want (not what they think we want or that they want us to want), and that they have a lot of trust to win back. IMO, Mists and Wrath are big shoes to fill and WoW needs another expansion like those. Those had some magical storytelling and game mechanics going on. They should be the model for future expansions, not WoD.
Looky here zar zar binks. You just tell your m8s in the office that no more filthy orcses, 2 day mission shipyards that destroy ships, unimaginative player housing (why are the buildings not moddable or able to be pvp invaded, garrison follower armies!!!) no more legendary rings or feet/bracers/codpiece no more ashran and no more other random crap that gets called a huge patch but is really only social media integration.
Do this or I'll fite you in a pit of you're choosing with nothing but a sponge and a toothbrush!!!
07/30/2015 03:13 PMPosted by Geven
07/30/2015 02:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
I trust that many people in this community can check any baggage they might have at the door and earnestly step into the announcement with us.
Heh, the avoidance PR begins. 'We're not here to talk about WoD. Let's focus on the future.' Get ready to hear that a lot.


What exactly do you want them to say on the 6th? "Hey guys excited for the new expansion? Well let's all dwell for the next twenty minutes over everything that went wrong in the past year before we get to anything else."

It's not avoidance in this case, they're there to do the big announcement.

At any rate, they do need to focus on the future at this point and I do hope that they use what they learned worked/didn't work to give us better in the future.
07/30/2015 03:11 PMPosted by Partisan
Then posters com on and start saying that months and even years can be counted in weeks.


They...can be? Blizzard doesn't go by months or even years, they go by weeks, For example, we typically get an expansion every 104 weeks.

Same goes for companies that use 24 hour clocks rather than what society is accustomed to.
I've tried to figure out whether game design has an impact on my decision whether or not to play. I'm not sure it has much of one. I've always walked away during times when I was burned out or busy IRL. That said, I have avoided coming back when my character model was borked and when MoP was in daily-quest beast mode... delays of a couple of months each time.
07/30/2015 02:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
Don't tease me to tease you about being teased! (I got lost writing that.)

Seriously, even though there are people frustrated with aspects of Warlords, or simply just a little worn out from spending so many years playing this game, I hope your curiosity about what we've got cooking is still there. It should be a fun event next week. I trust that many people in this community can check any baggage they might have at the door and earnestly step into the announcement with us.

It's not just about building hype either. We want to share what lies ahead and get some new conversations going. :)

I can say no more!
tbe devs and blues (since you act as a bridge connecting the comunity with the devs) you have a hellva battle ahead of you. Not only do you need to wow the players. You have win back thier trust.

The recent interviews with ion and cory stockbolder cemets this. I'm. Paraphrasing to save time

Ion: we did a lot wrong in wod 6.1 should've been 6.0.x due to little content.

Cory: we nailed wod we had 2 major (sic) patches and well on tbe way to yearly xpacks

Player base: ...
07/30/2015 03:23 PMPosted by Libriai
07/30/2015 03:13 PMPosted by Geven
...Heh, the avoidance PR begins. 'We're not here to talk about WoD. Let's focus on the future.' Get ready to hear that a lot.


What exactly do you want them to say on the 6th? "Hey guys excited for the new expansion? Well let's all dwell for the next twenty minutes over everything that went wrong in the past year before we get to anything else."

It's not avoidance in this case, they're there to do the big announcement.

At any rate, they do need to focus on the future at this point and I do hope that they use what they learned worked/didn't work to give us better in the future.
I expect exactly what I said to expect. I didn't attach a positive or negative to it.
07/30/2015 03:13 PMPosted by Geven
07/30/2015 02:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
I trust that many people in this community can check any baggage they might have at the door and earnestly step into the announcement with us.
Heh, the avoidance PR begins. 'We're not here to talk about WoD. Let's focus on the future.' Get ready to hear that a lot.

Well, to be fair, as someone whose subscription is currently set to not renew, they actually won't be at the expansion announcement to talk about WoD. They specifically will be focused on the future.

WoD has flaws, and my trust was hurt by what happened. I chose to pre-order WoD and resubscribe to the game (after almost 3 years away) based on the announcements at the pre-WoD Blizzcon. I made that choice myself, there's no denying that. But I was hurt based on the idea that I felt I could reasonably expect delivery on those announcements. I continue to get hurt by that, such as the more recent announcement of no Farahlon this expansion.

I don't know if I will ever resub. Not just because of what happened with WoD's delivery, but the game has systems that are really archaic at this point (here's looking at you, inventory storage and transmog -- I can't play the game when I have no bag space). And then there's the shape that the lore is in right now...

But honestly, they really should be focusing on the future. They need to be prepared to "make promises" about the future -- i.e. actually deliver on whatever it is they set people up to expect.

They need to move past the mistakes, not with apologies for them, but with legitimate action. Show that they can be trusted.
07/30/2015 03:26 PMPosted by Geven
07/30/2015 03:23 PMPosted by Libriai
...

What exactly do you want them to say on the 6th? "Hey guys excited for the new expansion? Well let's all dwell for the next twenty minutes over everything that went wrong in the past year before we get to anything else."

It's not avoidance in this case, they're there to do the big announcement.

At any rate, they do need to focus on the future at this point and I do hope that they use what they learned worked/didn't work to give us better in the future.
I expect exactly what I said to expect. I didn't attach a positive or negative to it.
To be fair, it's the forum community that is the most vocal about the past, Blizzard starts working on the future as the current releases.
07/30/2015 02:49 PMPosted by Newshoes
07/30/2015 02:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
simply just a little worn out from spending so many years playing this game


So sick of listening to this excuse, stop blaming bad game design on people just getting "tired" of playing.


And this is what we call a soundbite, also know as "Taking something out of context".

Don't do it, kids. It can lead to trouble.
07/30/2015 03:26 PMPosted by Geven
07/30/2015 03:23 PMPosted by Libriai
...

What exactly do you want them to say on the 6th? "Hey guys excited for the new expansion? Well let's all dwell for the next twenty minutes over everything that went wrong in the past year before we get to anything else."

It's not avoidance in this case, they're there to do the big announcement.

At any rate, they do need to focus on the future at this point and I do hope that they use what they learned worked/didn't work to give us better in the future.
I expect exactly what I said to expect. I didn't attach a positive or negative to it.

Well, just calling it "avoidance PR" kind of carries a negative connotation with it :p

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