Dear Zarhym,

General Discussion
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07/30/2015 02:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
Don't tease me to tease you about being teased! (I got lost writing that.)

Seriously, even though there are people frustrated with aspects of Warlords, or simply just a little worn out from spending so many years playing this game, I hope your curiosity about what we've got cooking is still there. It should be a fun event next week. I trust that many people in this community can check any baggage they might have at the door and earnestly step into the announcement with us.

It's not just about building hype either. We want to share what lies ahead and get some new conversations going. :)

I can say no more!


Thanks Zarhym

I'm looking forward to seeing what comes next.

There are things that I question about the decisions made for Warlords of Draenor, and some things I really disagreed with, prime among them being the lack of flight in the expansion. There are other things I think were good ideas but that maybe needed improvement in execution, I happen to like the Garrisons recognizing there were things I think could have been better, but the Shipyard I think leaves a lot to be desired for instance, even though I think these were cool concepts. These weren't make or break things for me, but it's contributed to my perception of the expansion.

The story has seemed pretty disjointed to me this expansion as well. I really like the Orcs, I play this one as my main for a reason, and was excited for the stories that might come out of this expansion, but it's felt somewhat lacking. Not terrible, mind you, it was decent, but something just felt lacking compared to some of what's come in the past like Wrath of the Lich King for instance. Warlords might not have felt as it does for me, had I not seen some of your earlier successes, maybe that's being worn out on my part as you said, I don't know, but I think I still have a pretty clear view.

I was also pretty anxious about the state of the game when you guys announced 6.2 was the end of the Warlords content too, that kind of change is pretty drastic compared to past experience. I've been playing since classic beta with only a few short breaks in Cataclysm and Pandaria, and want to see this continue to be fun and successful because I enjoy it.... so I was a bit disheartened to see the announcement, because I was really hoping that it wasn't a sign the game was in trouble.

But there were a ton of things I really loved about Warlords too. I think the leveling experience was excellent. You guys really excelled on that this expansion. I've enjoyed the dungeons, the professions, questing, the addition treasure hunting, (and even though I'm wanting flight, I liked much of the design of the pre-flight areas and jump puzzles, etc).

And... you guys seem to learn and adapt pretty well, this has been a hallmark of Blizzard for a long while. You guys got to to where you are with WoW because of that. So for the things that you experimented with in Warlords that didn't work, I have faith you guys are working on course correcting. I figure you'll take what worked, assess what didn't, and figure it out and use it to make the next expansion even better.

So I am actually excited to see what comes next.

Looking forward to those conversations.
(snip)

07/30/2015 03:13 PMPosted by Zarhym
and it breaks down into endlessly diverse populations containing immeasurably diverse opinions.


I'm variance! :)
07/30/2015 04:30 PMPosted by Motors
07/30/2015 02:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
lies


You had me until you used that word, you just KNOW someone is going to turn that into BLIZZARD LIES OMG QQ!

Gotta wordsmith that stuff a bit more imho.

=D


he could have used:
-Dishonest remarks
-untrue facts
-a car that only fits 5 mexicans
-a female dwarf


I hope your curiosity about what we've got cooking is still there.


Sorry your cooked burned cereal called Big patch of twitter and selfie camara integration kinda killed it for me

Curiosity died on me that day.
07/30/2015 02:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
or simply just a little worn out from spending so many years playing this game


Zarhym, I've read a comment like this from at least 4 different Blizzard employees, and I just don't think this is as widespread as you guys think it is.

I also think it sells you guys short and even (unintentionally) might make you doubt your own game, and the feedback you get.

I've been playing for ten years, and while that feeling I got as a newbie isn't as strong as it use to be, it still shows up. When I first went into Highmaul, I felt it. When I first stepped through the Dark Portal onto Draenor, I felt it. Even as I've grown up, got a career, been through relationships, played other games, and generally lived life, WoW's always been there.

You guys seem to think that we're just bored of doing this for so long. I don't agree with that. Logging onto WoW is like visiting an old friend. It's something we look forward to, and as long as you guys keep the game fresh and engaging, I'll probably always play it to one degree or another. It's a common saying I've heard in the gaming community: "You never really leave WoW."

Make an excellent game, and the players will never really leave.
I actually can't wait to see what Blizzard's been "cooking", here's to being blown away next week.
I'm just really scared actually even if we have a good Gamescom. Will any of the promises be kept will they even provide the content we been wanting or are we just gonna keep breaking promises like you did with WoD. I feel their is nothing to be hyped about until expansion is released and we see it for ourselves that the expansion will be epic. If not even though i has the wow token i am probably just gonna unsub. I need to see more than 8 dungeons at least 1 new battleground and/or arena at least to cope with the pvpers. Give us actual options of outdoor content and not just apexis dailys where you fill up the bar by grinding mobs or picking up items or grinding rares or camping them. *better yet just dump the apexis assult quest all together* Stuff like that is filler content and should not impact gameplay. Give us storyline quests that are tied to reputations but in a fun unique manner so that way when we do a storyline we has a reason to care about the faction and will tell a better story than waiting once a week for a campaign mission quest. Actually give us a variety of options for us to do and stop lying to us over and over.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

And then, when people don't like what lies ahead and start talking about it, locking those new coversations!

I don't know if that's an honest comment or more of a jab. But either way, I've been moderating and posting in blue on Blizzard forums for 9 years now, and never has there been a time where we've tried to completely stamp out honest conversations of opinions about the game or speculation of what's to come -- at least not simply on the merit that the opinions being expressed on a given topic are largely negative.

Anyone who reads this and wonders why specific threads they were involved in were deleted in the past, the answer is almost definitely in our forum posting guidelines and Code of Conduct. Nowhere in those guidelines, however, does it say that you aren't allowed to share a negative opinion of the game. For real!


While I disagree with Blues often I do think Blizzard does allow much more criticism about the game than I think many companies would on their own website.

I have not been banned for expressing opinions that I am sure Blues disagreed with since I think Blizzard is going the wrong direction right now and do not plan on buying more Blizzard products in the future.

Yet I still am able to post.

I wanted to add after reading another of your posts that I do not think you are evil Developers.

I think you are doing things like pushing out content faster and before it is ready like other developers do now when you did not in the past. It seems you have joined the way other companies design games. Set a deadline and push it out ready or not.

Then patch it or DLC it to a better game later.

It does not seem that it is about making a good game as much as making money when you need to make it.

I am guessing it is because Activison bought out Vivendi and now call the shots about what Blizzard does.
07/30/2015 04:14 PMPosted by Hanjha
07/30/2015 03:59 PMPosted by Chàrliesheen
Not saying that is what the guy is trying to say at all, but if he isn't: some command of the english language would be nice.
Zar says easily misconstrued things far to often and when someone calls him out on his often dismissive and arrogant tone he just stops responding or says he was misunderstood. The fact that (as he'll often tell you) he's been a blue for 9 years means he should know to chose what words he uses veeerryy carefully. For that reason, I'm inclined to take everything he says at face value.

I choose my words carefully. But I'm also not going to be a perfectly polished PR robot when I'm sharing in conversation on the forums. I don't think a lot of people would appreciate it if I was either.

I don't have a problem with you taking what I say at face value. That's fair. I don't know that your summation of my communication style is very fair though. I'm vastly outnumbered on this forum and my words are in bright blue to attract everyone. And there are scores of people who will take every possible angle to pick at what I'm saying. And I know that that's going to happen before I hit the "Submit" button, but I'm not going to let that completely tongue tie me when I want to talk to people.

I'm not asking for sympathy. It's part of the job, I know. The job also requires a lot of empathy and a lot of rallying on behalf of players when discussing feedback internally. Hopefully, even if my manner of posting rubs you the wrong way, you can at least understand that we're not meant to be at odds with one another. We want a fun video game that brings people together with joy, regardless of how complicated that can be for a game and community of this magnitude.
07/30/2015 02:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
what lies ahead


I laughed so hard at this.

I hope there are no lies ahead like there were with WoD.
07/30/2015 02:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
Don't tease me to tease you about being teased! (I got lost writing that.)

Seriously, even though there are people frustrated with aspects of Warlords, or simply just a little worn out from spending so many years playing this game, I hope your curiosity about what we've got cooking is still there. It should be a fun event next week. I trust that many people in this community can check any baggage they might have at the door and earnestly step into the announcement with us.

It's not just about building hype either. We want to share what lies ahead and get some new conversations going. :)

I can say no more!


First off. I am glad we're getting blue responses more and more lately here. Just wish heroes of the storm got the same treatment although I'm sure that's not something within your control.

Second. Despite disliking 90% of WoD. I loved updated models, and toy box but still so we didn't get at least a race. Garrison's are mostly mindless. Something about 6.2 got me into the game a bit more. Playing somewhat more. Not as much as I did back in the peak of MoP but still. This expansion I'd compare to cata as they being my 2 least fav expansions. I personally disagree with the lack of flying pretty much the entire expansion (not going to get into that debate) and the orcs, orcs AND OH YEAH MORE ORCS! Is a bit tiresome especially after 5.4. Still.

I am keeping an open mind for the next expansion hopefully you learn from your mistakes with WoD and improve on them. I am really hopping for new race/s (AROAKKA PLEASE!) And maybe, just maybe a class(DEMON HUNTER!!!!) When I first read about WoD way back when I was very disappointed from what I read and then it was meh. I played it at launch and got 2 chars to 100 and before 4 months has passed I had all but completely stopped playing. Until 6.2 sparked a bit more interest. I really, really hope that's not how this next expansion goes.

Thirdly. I hope you guys can keep to you not going a year + without new content. With that I guessed presuming you don't do a wrath thing and add a random new content patch that we'll likely get whatever this expansion is between December and February (roughly) as that'll be around 8-10 months ish since 6.2 launched. Which would explain why you're revealing it in august until waiting for blizzcon.

TBPH I am excited for the next expansion reveal. But I don't want to come off harsh but last time you disappointed me so I'm trying not to get to hyped.

I love Blizzard as a company, I really do. I love their products. I've been with bliz for a lil' while and I'd like to be with you longer. For most part I enjoy spending money on your products. And I really hope you deliver and bring us something awesome!

I doubt you'll respond to this but I do hope you read it. Thanks for everything and I hope the next expansions is awesome.
07/30/2015 05:02 PMPosted by Sorrowweaver
07/30/2015 02:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
what lies ahead


I laughed so hard at this.

I hope there are no lies ahead like there were with WoD.
Had more lies in WoD than a kid lying to his/her mom.
Zaryhm can you explain why pvp has taken such a backseat in terms of priority lately? Like its such a fun part of the game that gets little to no love.

We get 1 dev interview with holinka for this expansion with like 4 dev interviews about raid tiers and such.

We can't talk about class design in holinkas interview and we can't talk about it cause raid tuning and raid interviews cause they talk about how they tune specs for specific tiers of raid content (AKA demo locks)

Seriously why do major pvp concerns slug on for months on end without being adressed?
07/30/2015 04:57 PMPosted by Zarhym
07/30/2015 04:14 PMPosted by Hanjha
... Zar says easily misconstrued things far to often and when someone calls him out on his often dismissive and arrogant tone he just stops responding or says he was misunderstood. The fact that (as he'll often tell you) he's been a blue for 9 years means he should know to chose what words he uses veeerryy carefully. For that reason, I'm inclined to take everything he says at face value.

I choose my words carefully. But I'm also not going to be a perfectly polished PR robot when I'm sharing in conversation on the forums. I don't think a lot of people would appreciate it if I was either.

I don't have a problem with you taking what I say at face value. That's fair. I don't know that your summation of my communication style is very fair though. I'm vastly outnumbered on this forum and my words are in bright blue to attract everyone. And there are scores of people who will take every possible angle to pick at what I'm saying. And I know that that's going to happen before I hit the "Submit" button, but I'm not going to let that completely tongue tie me when I want to talk to people.

I'm not asking for sympathy. It's part of the job, I know. The job also requires a lot of empathy and a lot of rallying on behalf of players when discussing feedback internally. Hopefully, even if my manner of posting rubs you the wrong way, you can at least understand that we're not meant to be at odds with one another. We want a fun video game that brings people together with joy, regardless of how complicated that can be for a game and community of this magnitude.


My main issue with the blue posting is that they often never respond to well thought out threads regarding actual game suggestions, and threads that are actually addressing valid concerns with the game. instead i only ever see posts in threads like this, that either are not having anything to do with the game. or are joke threads to put it simply.

this approach of not responding to anything that has something to do with the game they are supposedly moderating a forum for is worry some.
07/30/2015 04:57 PMPosted by Zarhym
07/30/2015 04:14 PMPosted by Hanjha
... Zar says easily misconstrued things far to often and when someone calls him out on his often dismissive and arrogant tone he just stops responding or says he was misunderstood. The fact that (as he'll often tell you) he's been a blue for 9 years means he should know to chose what words he uses veeerryy carefully. For that reason, I'm inclined to take everything he says at face value.

I choose my words carefully. But I'm also not going to be a perfectly polished PR robot when I'm sharing in conversation on the forums. I don't think a lot of people would appreciate it if I was either.

I don't have a problem with you taking what I say at face value. That's fair. I don't know that your summation of my communication style is very fair though. I'm vastly outnumbered on this forum and my words are in bright blue to attract everyone. And there are scores of people who will take every possible angle to pick at what I'm saying. And I know that that's going to happen before I hit the "Submit" button, but I'm not going to let that completely tongue tie me when I want to talk to people.

I'm not asking for sympathy. It's part of the job, I know. The job also requires a lot of empathy and a lot of rallying on behalf of players when discussing feedback internally. Hopefully, even if my manner of posting rubs you the wrong way, you can at least understand that we're not meant to be at odds with one another. We want a fun video game that brings people together with joy, regardless of how complicated that can be for a game and community of this magnitude.


Blue colored typing,
Is like a bull seeing red,
To forum goers

HA! Haiku up in here!
07/30/2015 04:57 PMPosted by Zarhym

I don't have a problem with you taking what I say at face value. That's fair. I don't know that your summation of my communication style is very fair though. I'm vastly outnumbered on this forum and my words are in bright blue to attract everyone. And there are scores of people who will take every possible angle to pick at what I'm saying. And I know that that's going to happen before I hit the "Submit" button, but I'm not going to let that completely tongue tie me when I want to talk to people.

I'm not asking for sympathy. It's part of the job, I know. The job also requires a lot of empathy and a lot of rallying on behalf of players when discussing feedback internally. Hopefully, even if my manner of posting rubs you the wrong way, you can at least understand that we're not meant to be at odds with one another. We want a fun video game that brings people together with joy, regardless of how complicated that can be for a game and community of this magnitude.


I'm not sure why you bother responding to a lot of these folks. This is a video game forum. We should be discussing the game, what's coming next, what we like and what we would love to see changed. This should come from a place of joy - after all we're playing a big game together!

I've never seen these forums, or fansites like MMO-Champion so overrun with haters. It isn't just WoD and their perception of its failings. It's been building for a very long time. Blizzard and fansites have become far too lax in allowing what is basically just unmitigated hate spewing. It's built up over the years to create such a toxic atmosphere that it drives players who want to enjoy the game away from these sites. Thus this becomes the refuge of the haters, dog pilers, and trolls.

Honestly, if I was in charge, I'd just start handing out bans for non-constructive tone. Clean up these forums, and re-create them as a place where people who want to discuss the game together in a fun light - even if that's to be critical at times in an adult manner - can gather.

Otherwise you're just feeding the hate beast.

Ok, I've been here far too long. I can feel the toxicity seeping in already. Like most other players who actually enjoy playing the game, I'm going to run away from these forums now . . .
It makes it very hard for me to get hyped for next expansion when devs in interviews don't focally acknowledge how bad certain things are right now. "We learned some lessons" does not give me hope for a better future, because we've heard that line a thousand times over.
07/30/2015 02:45 PMPosted by Lazeelaz
But you didn't say anything....


He acknowledged feeling and told people to watch the Gamecom announcement. I would expect every Blizzard employee to be yelling from the rooftops that expansion news is coming out next week.
07/30/2015 05:11 PMPosted by Yoduhde
I'm not sure why you bother responding to a lot of these folks. This is a video game forum. We should be discussing the game, what's coming next, what we like and what we would love to see changed. This should come from a place of joy - after all we're playing a big game together!

I've never seen these forums, or fansites like MMO-Champion so overrun with haters. It isn't just WoD and their perception of its failings. It's been building for a very long time. Blizzard and fansites have become far too lax in allowing what is basically just unmitigated hate spewing. It's built up over the years to create such a toxic atmosphere that it drives players who want to enjoy the game away from these sites. Thus this becomes the refuge of the haters, dog pilers, and trolls.

Honestly, if I was in charge, I'd just start handing out bans for non-constructive tone. Clean up these forums, and re-create them as a place where people who want to discuss the game together in a fun light - even if that's to be critical at times in an adult manner - can gather.

Otherwise you're just feeding the hate beast.

Ok, I've been here far too long. I can feel the toxicity seeping in already. Like most other players who actually enjoy playing the game, I'm going to run away from these forums now . . .


Shutting down criticism in favor of an echo chamber is not constructive.
07/30/2015 03:02 PMPosted by Alarienne
07/30/2015 02:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
Don't tease me to tease you about being teased! (I got lost writing that.)

Seriously, even though there are people frustrated with aspects of Warlords, or simply just a little worn out from spending so many years playing this game, I hope your curiosity about what we've got cooking is still there. It should be a fun event next week. I trust that many people in this community can check any baggage they might have at the door and earnestly step into the announcement with us.

It's not just about building hype either. We want to share what lies ahead and get some new conversations going. :)

I can say no more!


It would help if you didn't refer to player concerns as "baggage" because that's pretty condescending, in my opinion.


/facepalm

Not condescending at all. If you do not really understand the analogy, sometimes it is best not to comment on it.

Edit to expound:
Why would you automatically assume that "baggage" is condescending? I read it as carrying our disappointments and skepticism and if that is not truthful, I do not know what is.

To turn this into an insult really requires trying really hard.

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