Blizzard, you're doing it again

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08/19/2015 06:54 PMPosted by Seiryu
o... why are you giving them another chance again?


I'm not. Game Time Expires: 9/16/2015 6:59 PM

The game is already uninstalled and I wouldn't come back even if they dropped flight on live tomorrow. If you wish to follow up in a few weeks/months and see if I have stood by my convictions, look at my guild. Every character in the guild is me. Feel free to check any of them for any activity whatsoever.
08/19/2015 05:18 PMPosted by Lyceus
"We intend" has now changed to "we plan". Just another slick little "out" they are leaving themselves so they can once again go "psych!" or "We never PROMISED!"

Or - here's a thought - tell people what they want to do and let them know they really are listening to players anxious about it, without actually promising to do it in case for some reason it doesn't work.

Nah, that's crazy talk. Let's do like the rest of the world does anymore and assume vile intent in every little thing.
08/19/2015 07:06 PMPosted by Aethelmarc
Nah, that's crazy talk. Let's do like the rest of the world does anymore and assume vile intent in every little thing.


Don't even try to pretend that Blizzard has not given us any reason whatsoever to doubt and mistrust them. /smh Although I do find it funny that the fanboy party line has gone from "hahah your own fault for believing what they said" to "How dare you doubt what Blizzard says?"
08/19/2015 05:27 PMPosted by Lyceus
08/19/2015 05:21 PMPosted by Gongam
So like every other patch that has ever been released they say things sometimes change.


That is a cop out and you know it.


Its not and you are being an indignant child.
It would have been better if the first line of the newspost had been something like "We're hoping to have the patch arrive on September 1st." or "The patch arrives September 1st, assuming all goes to plan."

Instead, we got a very definite "Patch 6.2.2 arrives September 1st".

There is no room for "ifs, buts, or maybes" when you make a statement as definite as that. That IS a promise.

The promise was in the first line of the newspost. If they want their "OK, it may not arrive then" to be heard, that statement should be given equal prominence (i.e. somewhere in the first paragraph of the newspost), not buried on page 40 of a forum thread.
I think you don't understand. He is just clarifying because he knows that people will see that and go "Hey it is 100% for sure going to happen". Seriously do you guys just love being upset? He's literally doing what we asked Blizzard to always do and you still complain.
08/19/2015 07:30 PMPosted by Jamarly
Its not and you are being an indignant child.


Yes it is a cop out and I really don't care what you call me.
08/19/2015 05:42 PMPosted by Notagin
Just think of it as Blizzard adding rng to their PR. lol


Or subtracting $$$ from their account due to lost subs.
Le sigh.

Y'know - what can be said that hasn't been said already?

Blizzard... stop not being awesome. I miss the awesome Blizzard.
They'll probably have it ready on Sept 1st.

Blizzard knows people are losing faith, they know this community would blow a gasket if it got delayed any further.. they don't wanna have to deal with that.

I'd be willing to bet they are working hard to have it ready and chances are they will.
If they're not sure it will be ready on 1st September then they're making a rod for their own back, and they need to edit the newspost to make it clear in the initial paragraph that this date is subject to change.

At the moment the newspost reads like a promise.

Putting the disclaimer on page 40 of a thread so that they can later say "but we told you it might not be ready" is poor communications policy.
---WARNING: HERE THERE BE PERSONAL OPINION DRAGONS---

I'll start with this: we're a software development company. More precisely, we're a video game developer. Anything and everything can change in the software development world, for reasons that are often impossible to predict ahead of time. As a result, we're hesitant to 100% commit to anything. We've learned that, no matter how confident we are at any given point, there's always a very real chance that there's something we haven't thought of that makes what we want to do impossible.

The whole "weeks, not months" thing makes an easy example. At the time that was said, we firmly believed that it would only take us a few weeks to polish off Tanaan and fix a few areas we knew were likely to have some bugs, and then we'd roll out the flying patch. It's easy enough, right? We just change a few 0's to 1's and it's all done.

Then we started finding a lot more bugs and glitches than we expected. We found tiny pockets of the world that weren't properly obeying the flight rules, and would drop players to their deaths if you happened to fly through them. We found issues with certain mounts and class abilities that were caused by hotfixes to resolve exploits, which resulted in those mounts and abilities not working. We found situations in which if you fly into your Garrison at juuuuust the right angle, you get disconnected and can't get back onto your character for a good half hour or so.

Finding those bugs, implementing fixes, testing those fixes, finding more bugs (sometimes caused by those fixes)... it all added up to a lot more work being needed to actually enable flying than we had originally expected. And as a result, what we originally thought would only take a few weeks ended up taking a couple months.

Now, don't get me wrong: I'm not making excuses here. And I don't at all blame the players who are frustrated and upset that we didn't hit the timeline we originally stated. Honestly, we probably should never have said that it would only take a few weeks. That was clearly a mistake, and I apologize for it.

But that should hopefully give you an idea of why -- ESPECIALLY given the missteps we've made in the recent past -- we simply can't 100% guarantee that nothing will go wrong between now and September 1st. Truth is, we're more confident in this release date than we usually are this far in advance of a patch. That's why we felt that we could give a date at all.

There's just always -- ALWAYS -- a chance that something can go wrong at the last minute. We could, say, be finishing the fixes for the last couple of dismount bugs on the Saturday before release, and when we compile the final build, all of a sudden activating your flying mount teleports you to the graveyard in Westfall and deletes the contents of your inventory. Is that likely? Not really, no. But it's possible, so we need to make sure you're aware that things can change, just in case something like that does happen.

There are alternatives, of course. We could just not give a date until we know for 100% certain, which is our usual strategy. Like I said, we feel a little more confident in this date than usual, so we thought it was okay to share it.

The other option would have been to try to have the patch ready to go by the 1st, but not actually plan to release it until a week or so later. That would let us announce a date we'd be extremely confident in, but we'd essentially be delaying the release of flight even further, and we definitely don't want to do that. So, we gave a date that we feel pretty good about, with the reminder that we won't be able to release if something catastrophic happens.

This ended up being a giant wall of text, but I'll leave it with this: I know it's super frustrating when it feels like we're not being as open as we possibly could be. And I know it's equally frustrating when it seems like we're completely unwilling to commit to anything concrete. I spent 8 years as a player before I became an employee. I know exactly how it feels.

I just also know that it's better to not expect much and be pleasantly surprised, than to feel like a promise was broken. At least that's my opinion.
U tell em lore
Well Lore, thanks for the answer.

We tend to get a lot of silence from Blue. And it looked like a lot of delays for no reason at all.
08/19/2015 08:33 PMPosted by Lore
---WARNING: HERE THERE BE PERSONAL OPINION DRAGONS---

I'll start with this: we're a software development company. More precisely, we're a video game developer. Anything and everything can change in the software development world, for reasons that are often impossible to predict ahead of time. As a result, we're hesitant to 100% commit to anything. We've learned that, no matter how confident we are at any given point, there's always a very real chance that there's something we haven't thought of that makes what we want to do impossible.

The whole "weeks, not months" thing makes an easy example. At the time that was said, we firmly believed that it would only take us a few weeks to polish off Tanaan and fix a few areas we knew were likely to have some bugs, and then we'd roll out the flying patch. It's easy enough, right? We just change a few 0's to 1's and it's all done.

Then we started finding a lot more bugs and glitches than we expected. We found tiny pockets of the world that weren't properly obeying the flight rules, and would drop players to their deaths if you happened to fly through them. We found issues with certain mounts and class abilities that were caused by hotfixes to resolve exploits, which resulted in those mounts and abilities not working. We found situations in which if you fly into your Garrison at juuuuust the right angle, you get disconnected and can't get back onto your character for a good half hour or so.

Finding those bugs, implementing fixes, testing those fixes, finding more bugs (sometimes caused by those fixes)... it all added up to a lot more work being needed to actually enable flying than we had originally expected. And as a result, what we originally thought would only take a few weeks ended up taking a couple months.

Now, don't get me wrong: I'm not making excuses here. And I don't at all blame the players who are frustrated and upset that we didn't hit the timeline we originally stated. Honestly, we probably should never have said that it would only take a few weeks. That was clearly a mistake, and I apologize for it.

But that should hopefully give you an idea of why -- ESPECIALLY given the missteps we've made in the recent past -- we simply can't 100% guarantee that nothing will go wrong between now and September 1st. Truth is, we're more confident in this release date than we usually are this far in advance of a patch. That's why we felt that we could give a date at all.

There's just always -- ALWAYS -- a chance that something can go wrong at the last minute. We could, say, be finishing the fixes for the last couple of dismount bugs on the Saturday before release, and when we compile the final build, all of a sudden activating your flying mount teleports you to the graveyard in Westfall and deletes the contents of your inventory. Is that likely? Not really, no. But it's possible, so we need to make sure you're aware that things can change, just in case something like that does happen.

There are alternatives, of course. We could just not give a date until we know for 100% certain, which is our usual strategy. Like I said, we feel a little more confident in this date than usual, so we thought it was okay to share it.

The other option would have been to try to have the patch ready to go by the 1st, but not actually plan to release it until a week or so later. That would let us announce a date we'd be extremely confident in, but we'd essentially be delaying the release of flight even further, and we definitely don't want to do that. So, we gave a date that we feel pretty good about, with the reminder that we won't be able to release if something catastrophic happens.

This ended up being a giant wall of text, but I'll leave it with this: I know it's super frustrating when it feels like we're not being as open as we possibly could be. And I know it's equally frustrating when it seems like we're completely unwilling to commit to anything concrete. I spent 8 years as a player before I became an employee. I know exactly how it feels.

I just also know that it's better to not expect much and be pleasantly surprised, than to feel like a promise was broken. At least that's my opinion.


Yep, that's definitely the software business. If you catch something really late, it may be best to correct it and delay the release a few days.

I feel sorry for you guys for dealing with the angry rabble. Lore, you can leak me some expansion proposals and I won't get mad if it doesn't all get in.

PS: Your hair rocks.
08/19/2015 08:33 PMPosted by Lore
---WARNING: HERE THERE BE PERSONAL OPINION DRAGONS---

I'll start with this: we're a software development company. More precisely, we're a video game developer. Anything and everything can change in the software development world, for reasons that are often impossible to predict ahead of time. As a result, we're hesitant to 100% commit to anything. We've learned that, no matter how confident we are at any given point, there's always a very real chance that there's something we haven't thought of that makes what we want to do impossible.

The whole "weeks, not months" thing makes an easy example. At the time that was said, we firmly believed that it would only take us a few weeks to polish off Tanaan and fix a few areas we knew were likely to have some bugs, and then we'd roll out the flying patch. It's easy enough, right? We just change a few 0's to 1's and it's all done.

Then we started finding a lot more bugs and glitches than we expected. We found tiny pockets of the world that weren't properly obeying the flight rules, and would drop players to their deaths if you happened to fly through them. We found issues with certain mounts and class abilities that were caused by hotfixes to resolve exploits, which resulted in those mounts and abilities not working. We found situations in which if you fly into your Garrison at juuuuust the right angle, you get disconnected and can't get back onto your character for a good half hour or so.

Finding those bugs, implementing fixes, testing those fixes, finding more bugs (sometimes caused by those fixes)... it all added up to a lot more work being needed to actually enable flying than we had originally expected. And as a result, what we originally thought would only take a few weeks ended up taking a couple months.

Now, don't get me wrong: I'm not making excuses here. And I don't at all blame the players who are frustrated and upset that we didn't hit the timeline we originally stated. Honestly, we probably should never have said that it would only take a few weeks. That was clearly a mistake, and I apologize for it.

But that should hopefully give you an idea of why -- ESPECIALLY given the missteps we've made in the recent past -- we simply can't 100% guarantee that nothing will go wrong between now and September 1st. Truth is, we're more confident in this release date than we usually are this far in advance of a patch. That's why we felt that we could give a date at all.

There's just always -- ALWAYS -- a chance that something can go wrong at the last minute. We could, say, be finishing the fixes for the last couple of dismount bugs on the Saturday before release, and when we compile the final build, all of a sudden activating your flying mount teleports you to the graveyard in Westfall and deletes the contents of your inventory. Is that likely? Not really, no. But it's possible, so we need to make sure you're aware that things can change, just in case something like that does happen.

There are alternatives, of course. We could just not give a date until we know for 100% certain, which is our usual strategy. Like I said, we feel a little more confident in this date than usual, so we thought it was okay to share it.

The other option would have been to try to have the patch ready to go by the 1st, but not actually plan to release it until a week or so later. That would let us announce a date we'd be extremely confident in, but we'd essentially be delaying the release of flight even further, and we definitely don't want to do that. So, we gave a date that we feel pretty good about, with the reminder that we won't be able to release if something catastrophic happens.

This ended up being a giant wall of text, but I'll leave it with this: I know it's super frustrating when it feels like we're not being as open as we possibly could be. And I know it's equally frustrating when it seems like we're completely unwilling to commit to anything concrete. I spent 8 years as a player before I became an employee. I know exactly how it feels.

I just also know that it's better to not expect much and be pleasantly surprised, than to feel like a promise was broken. At least that's my opinion.


Thank you so much for explaining it. I hope now complainers can shut their mouths and those who unsubbed because blizzard was being "lazy" well i hope you never come back and stick to your words.

Edit: I forgot to say: this is why YEARLY EXPANSIONS WILL JUST NOT WORK". Please let the dev team think about it and i mean really think about all the consequences of RUshed Content
08/19/2015 08:33 PMPosted by Lore
Then we started finding a lot more bugs and glitches than we expected. We found tiny pockets of the world that weren't properly obeying the flight rules, and would drop players to their deaths if you happened to fly through them. We found issues with certain mounts and class abilities that were caused by hotfixes to resolve exploits, which resulted in those mounts and abilities not working. We found situations in which if you fly into your Garrison at juuuuust the right angle, you get disconnected and can't get back onto your character for a good half hour or so.

Finding those bugs, implementing fixes, testing those fixes, finding more bugs (sometimes caused by those fixes)... it all added up to a lot more work being needed to actually enable flying than we had originally expected. And as a result, what we originally thought would only take a few weeks ended up taking a couple months.
Sounds like it was a domino effect then. That had to be frustrating.
08/19/2015 08:33 PMPosted by Lore
We found tiny pockets of the world that weren't properly obeying the flight rules, and would drop players to their deaths if you happened to fly through them


You and your random magic anti-flight air bubbles. This made me think of Q-bert for some reason. Enable flight in one spot and flight is disabled in the areas next to it.
Lore...thank you.

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