Guild Rep is 100% Stupid.

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01/20/2011 12:53 PMPosted by Bashiok

Sounds great, here's how that would work out: I have an awesome end-game progression guild. We're level 25. You give me 20k gold, I send you an invite and promote you to the highest officer rank. You buy whatever rewards you want, and then leave.

This is not the intent of the system.

Blizzard, while your intention here is good hearted, you are meddling in an area that was previously completely player domain. How a guild chooses to operate itself, handle itself and behave in game should be completely up to them.

Guilds already sell gear, mounts and other vanity items in game through sale runs. That in my opinion is as every bit against the intent of the system of raiding as selling guild perks is. Are you going to start limiting who can be taken to a raid now to only people who are in the guild and have exalted with the guild as a way to bar guilds from using the raiding system to earn gold? No, that would be considered ludicrous, since it's always been up to guilds to decide who they take to raid and who they don't.

The same applies here. If a guild wants to use the system to make some gold, that's fine, I don't care. You can put in certain checks like you have to be in a guild that has those perks in order to be able to use them (or mount up on that mount, like the Scorpion or Dark Pheonix).

My biggest concern isn't even the grind itself initially. I myself plan to stay in my guild for the long haul, but I know others who may switch from one guild to play with friends, then switch back to another guild to hardcore raid. This doesn't take that freedom out of their hands, but it does make it very inconvenient to have to grind up over 3 months worth of rep every time. I simply don't think that's a wise way to treat the player base. When it comes to guild matters, it should be handled by the guilds themselves.

And for every guild that is willing to sell it's rewards to anyone for the highest bidder, there are an equal, probably even greater number of guilds who would just as soon prefer to keep their rewards exclusive to the guild.
1) Allow exalted members to purchase Bind to Account rep tokens, work out some way to only allow it to work if the person who uses the token is in x guild.

2) Allow rep gain via guild tabards, even with a cap it will take a decent amount of time to obtain anything viable.

Admit the system is flawed. I've been in two cases of Almost-Revered-But-Gkicked, and in one of those cases I was in every one of our guild's heroic and raid achievements. I was kicked because the guild master's wife didn't like me, and the time before that "I just didn't fit in" for constantly grinding out guild heroics.

I honestly doubt the big guilds that have Glory to the Cata Raider unlocked (Like my last) will open their doors or sell spots to random people who want the phoenix mount, and if they do, How is it any different than all of the Scarab Lord selling back in BC? Or buying the ashes from a guild running Tempest Keep?
01/20/2011 5:32 PMPosted by Jimbosplash
I can fix all of your problems. why not spend this time to raise the guild rep instead of whining for no reason at all

You're gonna join his guild and help build up guild rep? No? You're not fixing any of his problems then are you?

Read the first post again, actually read it, and see if there is indeed "whining for no reason at all" going on. What comes off as an invalid reason to you does not always come off as invalid to someone else.
Let me clarify my stance on this subject.

What I don't want:

People getting anything while resting on the coat tails of others

People getting something for nothing

People gaming the system instead of earning what they gain

What I want:

A system that rewards me for guild activities, not solo questing and dailies

A system that isn't a 3 month grind just to be a 3 month grind

A system that takes into account ALL aspects of game play, be it PvE or PvP Arena's and BG's

A system that is fun and not just repeating the same old stuff for weeks on end

A system I would be willing to do on more than one character for the guilds benefit

The thing about guild reputation is that it doesn't match between player and character at all. you get more out of questing solo than you do by being in your guild groups and contributing through your tradeskills or roles.

in real life, you invest money, the return is done over time.

in wow, you invest tons and tons of time and money and maybe get a fistful of chump change. that's wrong.

if you earn guild rep through varied means, you should continue to earn guild rep over time, and the amount you earn should echo like rolling ignites used to.

this would ensure that players stay in their guilds, log in regularly, and contribute in many different ways. heck you could give players 1 rep per consumable created used by another guildie, capped at 25 rep per week, and each week that you cap, the rep gained echoes, so you gain 25 rep week 1, 50 week 2, 75 week 3, and that's just from that. This doesn't just allow players to contribute their way, it allows multiple alchemists, enchanters, scribblers, blacksmiths, etc. to contribute all at once. guild has 4 engineers? all of them can cap their rep. and if they keep doing that every week, they get more and more out of it - until the rep gain is no longer a barrier to the fun the players want to have.
With the loss of 40-person raids, the game had devolved into sea of minor guilds and almost everyone who is serious about end game content or altcraft had a guild bank alt or a personal guild for their alts.

Enter Cataclysm.

The perks are simply the first nail in the coffin, the rep grind is the second, and the third and final being the guild-only raids.

It's a win-win situation for blizzard, this consolidates the playerbase into a few big raiding guilds like vanilla while at the same time smashing the sea of funny-name-joke-guilds, which are still available, but you have to grind for years to get anywhere. Note: During those years of grinding, you'll be paying the monthly fee, never hitting the cap anyway, and celebrating by yourself.

Options are good, but this isn't a good one.
Guildmasters should receive a weekly 'blue' quest from the Guild Charter NPC in any Faction Capital, they would be given stack of (x) guild rep commedation items which is based on their guild population (account pop / not character pop). It could also factor in the guild's current level, as you get to higher guild levels you would receive more items per week (a bonus on top of your population amount)

Guild A(lvl1) has 200 accounts : gets 25 marks
Guild B(lvl1) has 20 accounts : gets 5 marks
Guild C(lvl10) has 200 accounts : gets 40 marks

* the math is random right now for the example

These items would have a cooldown of a week per player so you couldn't simple burn a whole stack on yourself. Think of it as a Guild Members of the Week prize. Guild masters could distribute their weekly allowance of items to their officers and have them hand out these items as well.

They should be able to be collected (no expiry). The reason being some GMs may wish to collect enough for everyone and hand them out at the holidays as a gift ... or after guild first raid .. etc.

These would be like the rep tokens found in northrend but with a cooldown. They'd be useful in rewarding guild interaction which can't be tracked by an automated system.
Bashiok you're quite amusing. It's a shame you got reported. I hope you haven't gotten a 3 day ban or anything. Lolol?

The way I look at it is that the guild advancement system in full could use improvement. But guess what. That's how everything works. Let's think about it. Windows. Mac. Corel. Jasc. Adobe. Etc.. all software is upgraded eventually. Even WoW addons are improved. When it comes to development and advancement in games, it's hard to be 'final'. Look at games and movies. They have sequels..prequels. Why not just fit them into one 19 hour movie?

As another example. I played Ragnarok Online. They added a guild levelling system with spells for reaching different levels. Do you know how it worked? Every high end guild put their members at the max cap 50% to level their guild. There was no cap; the members were just goats on treadmills until the guild was max level in days. There was no benefits to them other than the guild spells. Furthermore, nearly every single guild was run by a Stalker because they had the best spells for the high-end focus of the game...

If Blizzard followed in their easymode footsteps, this game would be chaotic and in turmoil. Any sort of progression would be thrown out the window and more people would be pissed at that then anything else. What is right now is a system that makes everything as equal as possible, barring some obvious disadvantages (LIKE HAVING NO GUILD MEMBERS LIKE MEEE HAHAHAHA. Still thank you Blizz for implementing 3/5 guild exp in dungeons. :D).

And why are people QQing about the flask they make? If your profession is max level, that's unfortunate. The professions are supposed to contribute to the guild unless that's been removed.

If I WERE to make a suggestion, it would revolve around tenure of the guild. The problem is it is so hard to control that this is currently the best way of gaining rep. You give guild exp, you get guild rep. It's fair trade, which is smart.

Perhaps have tiers. Guild rank Z gains rep normally. Guild rank X gains rep a bit faster than Z. Guild rank Y gains rep a bit faster than X. Etc. Of course there would have to be sensical balance and restrictions to avoid said 20k gold dropper coming and going.

Another suggestion which would be much harder to maintain, but plausible. Have the Guild Leader gain rep faster than the rest of the ranks. If the guild lead is passed around.. well that could be dangerous for higher end guilds, but in the event it goes well... not everyone will be able to benefit from the guild lead.
01/20/2011 5:45 PMPosted by Mishotem
[quote="19151547022"]Sounds great, here's how that would work out: I have an awesome end-game progression guild. We're level 25. You give me 20k gold, I send you an invite and promote you to the highest officer rank. You buy whatever rewards you want, and then leave.

So they leave, and lose the perks. Problem solved lol. What's your next rebuttal?
01/20/2011 6:12 PMPosted by Hammerheart
[quote="19151547022"]Sounds great, here's how that would work out: I have an awesome end-game progression guild. We're level 25. You give me 20k gold, I send you an invite and promote you to the highest officer rank. You buy whatever rewards you want, and then leave.

So they leave, and lose the perks. Problem solved lol. What's your next rebuttal?

That would cause a whole host of other issues, and when someone legitimately works up their rep with a guild we feel that them keeping the reward is only right.

Punishing the majority who work to earn their rewards is not a solution.

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