Guild Rep is 100% Stupid.

General Discussion
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For all the people complaining about "my alt guild can't get enough experience", why the hell don't you put your alts in your main guild? Then they can contribute to the total experience gain rather than some other total that you're never going to use.

Regardless, guild experience shouldn't really be that big of an issue. By the time you level up enough to get the rewards, you can comfortably achieve a decent level of reputation just by doing your daily heroic and 6~ dailies occasionally. It's not that big of an ask, and in a month this just won't be a problem anymore.

And some of the "solutions" posted by people here are absolutely insane. They would never work, and you may as well just give everyone the rewards instantly. Let's not give us something else to work towards.
>> I just wanted to remind everyone (especially the 20% or so of posts in this thread) that this discussion is about Guild REPUTATION not level.

Therefore it has nothing to do with the perks from leveling; xp increase, faster hearth, mount speed, w/e.

Guild rep, people. Rep.

That is all, continue please.
The guild level system is poorly designed and guild rep only addresses one minor issue with it, the potential exploitation of rewards by those who haven't put any effort into earning them.

Beyond that though, there's a plethora of other issues with the system. For example, there's already been one instance I've seen of someone kicking all their members and then selling off their level 11 guild in trade for 100k. I fully suspect a lot of people are going find themselves kicked from their guild as soon as it hits level 25 only to soon see the guild (or spots in it) that they spent months helping to level up for sale in /trade. You know the gold sellers are already all over that potential gold mine which is probably why I can't roll a new char and go more than 5 minutes before I've got half a dozen guild invites dropped on me.

I personally loved the suggestion someone else had in that the rewards system should be based around the players and not the guilds.

Make it so players earn something more like EQ AA points for participating in guild activities and at certain levels of these "Guild Advancement Points" they unlock additional perks for themselves. All rewards and perks should be available to every guild at the moment of creation (or at the moment of the guild completing the requisite achievement) but players would not benefit from them until they accumulate enough GAP to unlock them for their character by participating in guild related activities.

When someone changes guilds, they would be penalized an increasing amount of AA points the more often they change guilds (like with respeccing) and if they should fall below the point requirement for a perk/reward, they will lose access to that perk/reward until they rebuild their points to an appropriate level (to allow new chars to benefit from perks like extra XP, start new chars with more than zero points and base rewards off that).

That would solve, or at least massively lessen the impact of things like rogue GLs wiping out potentially months of effort by players, people feeling forced to stick with a guild in which they are not happy due the potential loss of perks and the certain loss of access to rewards if they leave to join another guild as players would not have to start at square one if they make a guild change. But it would still encourage more cohesive guilds and guild participation as jumping to a new guild every week would prevent you from benefiting from the guild system due to the exponential increase in the points lost for doing so.
It would also solve the problem of new guilds in the future having a very hard time establishing themselves as attracting people to level 1 guild is going to become an increasingly impossible task and you can level up a new guild without members. Over time as guilds are disbanded (or sold off

The only issue with such a system is someone could join a guild, work up their GAP and then /gquit and create a solo guild and enjoy the perks of an active guild without actually being in one. But compared to the way things are that's a very small issue and could easily be solved with other mechanics such as a point decay system.
Dude, Blizzard should make a Guildie of the week award kinda like the employee of the week lol. Srsly though the GM should be able to award a guildy whom he/she thinks has been really helpful to the guild and give them like idk maybe a small % extra guild rep earned for a week? or maybe a couple of guild rep points. Kinda like the recruit a friend feature that you can grant levels. And to make it fair to others make it so that one can only get the reward maybe once a month?? idk lol just tossing out the idea.
Anyone here who is Honored with their guild and able to purchase the BoA gear yet? I only play on the weekend, mostly Saturdays and I am a little bit into friendly with this guild. Unfortunately because it is a small guild and people are online at all different hours, we are leveling slower as a guild. I was really looking forward to purchasing the new BOA gear to level up some alts and was dissapointed to see that you need at least honored to purchase it.
i searched and found a guild of wonderful people that d happy with and built a community with it took time and effort but i found it and im happy we are a small guild maybe 25-30 active members and i trust them.

just because you cant trust anyone and antisocial in a mmorpg dosent mean the rest of us are. im not being forced to cooperate with anyone. it took me time and effort to find a guild that i would enjoy.

you would be suprised at the effort needed to yield a no drama guild. it requires that no matter how skilled you boot the people that cause drama

that last step is something people arnt willing to take for the sake of progression but what is progression what is raiding is it to obtain shiny pieces of gear or the experience of getting those shiny pieces of gear with the people on vent/ in game.

if the goal in the game is to aquire through your gold purchases all the shiny pieces of gear you can the mounts the loot everything to parade around stormwind/orgrimmar guildless ?????

i dont think blizzard cares about you and if you read the intent of their system you hopefuly will understand why although i wouldnt hold my breath
It occurs to me that if officers aren't participating in the content, running dungeons, raids, arenas and battlegrounds, then they probably aren't actually participating in the guild very much. In which case, why are they officers?
01/20/2011 10:38 PMPosted by Manaduvortes
I'm sorry that I seem to have insulted you despite never actually commenting on any casual guilds... I don't really know what I did to upset you so much.

You seem to confuse you not knowing what the hell you're talking about with me being insulted.

Please stop confusing those issues. It further shows you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
Maybe the simplest solution to everyone's complaints would be to allow all XP and Honor gains to generate GXP and GRep and just provide bonuses for activities done in a guild group? Obviously the ratios would have to be delicately tuned to prevent the numbers from being excessive... or pointless.

Although raiding does seem to reward a disproportionally low amount of GXP and GRep, possibly because of the "Raid Group" XP penalty. I'm assuming that all GXP gains from boss kills (heroics and raids) are based off the amount of "XP" the boss awards.

01/21/2011 6:13 AMPosted by Kishkumen
Anyone here who is Honored with their guild and able to purchase the BoA gear yet? I only play on the weekend, mostly Saturdays and I am a little bit into friendly with this guild. Unfortunately because it is a small guild and people are online at all different hours, we are leveling slower as a guild. I was really looking forward to purchasing the new BOA gear to level up some alts and was dissapointed to see that you need at least honored to purchase it.

If you continue at your pace, you ideally should be close to or honored by the time your guild reaches level 10, assuming an equal rate of contribution.
01/17/2011 12:05 PMPosted by Bashiok
The criteria we've set are hopefully those that are both beneficial to the guild and its members, as well as avoiding making grindy actions the best way to get rep.

My first problem with guild rep is that, imo, this description just isn't accurate at present.

I don't know how much rep Paragon got for killing Sinestra, but I strongly suspect that I just got more guild rep for doing the Therazane dailies on my own.

In fact I actually knocked back doing a guild dungeon to do my solo dailies - I really like the cata dungeons, I'm just a bit burnt out on dungeon running - and I know that I got more guild reputation for those solo dailies than I would've got on the guild dungeon run.

Unfortunately the nature of the system encourages grindy farming. Dedicating a week's worth of raiding to wiping on a raid boss until you finally down it should be worth more rep than chain pulling through normal throne of tides wearing iLvl 359 gear.

I would much prefer a system that gave a more scaling amount of rep - like an equal-but-opposite the costs of respeccing. The first time you do a quest/dungeon/raid/BG, you get X amount of rep. The second time you get 90% of X rep. The third you get 80% of X rep. Et cetera. Something to discourage constantly grinding the same old farm content & encourage trying new things with your guild.

My second problem with guild rep is the fact the gating is on a weekly basis. In my opinion this makes the system very binary & clunky.

If you devote your free play time to farming raid mats one week, you're sacrificing a big chunk of potential guild reputation. Equally if you get enthusiastic about a character & level from 80-85 in a single week, you'll overshoot your cap per week by about 1.5 to 2 times & waste a whole load of guild rep.

In my opinion a daily cap on guild reputation that allowed for a smoother averaging would be much fairer if we really have to have a gating system.

My third problem is more of a vague impression of the system as a whole. It feels to me like a basically good idea has ended up watered down & mixed up in the process of trying to cut out the potential to game the system.

Personally I would prefer an approach that felt less constricted & "count your pennies", even if it meant that 10% of people were able to grind masochistically 24/7 to game the system rather than only 1%.

If someone is able to do something like grinding from mid-way revered to exalted in one week by doing 5,000 quests at 2 guild rep per quest, more power to them.

The system doesn't need to be absolutely un-cheeseable at the price of being irritating for more sane/conventional players.
What'll be interesting is when Guild Masters realize that the nature of this system gives them enormous power of the people under them in the guild.

Think about it: one day a GM decides that the guild needs to step up their attempts at things, so they need to get some cash, and so all guild members need to contribute 1000 gold a week to the guild coffers.

Or decides that they should just send the gold to him.

Or that he'd reaaaaaly like some of the lady members of the guild to chat with him on vent.

Now, before Cataclysm, if the GM wanted to do something that you didn't agree with, or went off on a power trip, or was just a plain old creep, well, dealing with it was pretty easy: you left the guild, and there was some drama. But nothing tangible was lost, and if a GM was creepy enough, basically everyone could leave and reform the guild sans-creep.

Not anymore.

Now, a GM has actual power over the people in the guild: he has the capacity to take something away from the people that quarrel with him.

That's a really major shift in the nature of power. If you're exalted with your guild, have a bunch of nifty little things like mounts and pets and so on, well, the fact is that your ability to continue to use those is predicated on your GM continuing to let you.

Let's also remember, at 3500 rep per week, getting to Exalted takes 12 weeks (3 months). 3 months of work that is held in trust by the people in your guild with the power to kick. 3 months of work that if they decide to mess with you, "poof", and it's gone.

That seems like a pretty powerful incentive to stick with a guild, enough perhaps to put up with some abuse. How much abuse? I guess we'll find out.

What's really going to be exciting is when something really distasteful happens, and the report gets out into the media (whose understanding of MMOs is about on par with my understanding of Swahilli). Oh, those are going to be some fun stories to read...

Oh, and before someone tries to say that this isn't going to happen, just stop and think about 2 things;
-This game has millions of players. It's like imagining that you could have a day on the island of Manhattan where there is no crime.

-Bad guilds are just a fact of life: they happen, people move on. Well, they did...
01/17/2011 12:05 PMPosted by Bashiok

The point is not to force you to do things you do not want to do,

I think it is. The point is to try and force people to join guilds (Or miss out on a huge amount of features).
Well, I'm not going to be forced. Beyond creating a guild of all of my alts, I hope we'll make level 2 in 3-4 months. Yay.
Oh, and I'm clearly not going to every join any other guild now that I've worked so hard for this one (with my alts)
I do like the guild leveling, I like that you gain rep with your guild ... Nice but at the same time I think the amount gained is very low.
And then there is a secondary issue, what if the guild breaks up a little way down the road? You would have to find a new guild and regrind all that rep again.
I know right now that the guild I am in is not very active and it is hard to do anything for the guild but I do not want to leave after all the work invested.
Now if you can transfer with Half of the rep ... Well that would work, would mean that all the work was not a waste of time and energy.

Just a few thoughts
The guild rep system is actualy one of the best things blizz has come out with and its also one of the only systems that i have seen out there that actualy works. now when it comes to peopel that say "oh we should not have to do this if were officers" lol the best way to find out if your good for any guild is if you work to get exalted with your guild that way you can keep your rank. guild rep is the perfic indicator of how hard you work to make your guild beter.

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