Sylvanas' role in Legion

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08/17/2015 12:16 AMPosted by Juibloc
08/16/2015 11:39 PMPosted by Kynrind
No other race is literally killing people, then ripping them away from the afterlife to bind their souls to their bodies (imperfectly since it's shadow/void magic/necromancy), -then- ask them if they want to be undead, just to increase their population because they cannot procreate.


every race does that minus the asking part, since that is what DKs do. Trolls, Humans, Orcs, Forsaken, Quillbore, elves, and Draenei all practice necromancy to one degree or another.

trolls have loa that are tied to the dead, or may be the dead.

humans are the necromancers of choice for the scourge and have some history of the practice since it had to be outlawed in most places.

Orcs had the original DKs and the original LK. plus all their spirit stuff that happens in outland/Dreanor

Forsaken... that is their thing.

Quillbore allied with the scourge and started making undead Quillbore

elves have wisps and ghosts and things like that across all their cultures.

draenei in outland were stealing ghosts of dead Draenei in the crypts instance. in Dreanor they apparently kept their dead in the Achiundun place...unfortunately Terron'gor ate them all.

very few seem to have clean hands when it comes to using the souls of the dead for personal/political profit


No they don't. ANY necromancy is reviled. The DKs are tolerated (not accepted, but just tolerated) because they are not trying to replenish their numbers. They know they are evil and what they do is evil and they specifically do -not- inflict it on anyone else. The few cases they do is against defined enemies, and they certainly are not inflicting near eternal undeath on anyone.

Humans: necromancy is banned and forbidden. Not accepted.
Orcs: necromancy is forbidden and banned. not accepted.
Forsaken: sadistic bastards that apparently now like inflicting their hated curse on everyone else around them. The only way they get around it with the horde is because it is Alliance that are being so cursed. If they did it with Horde corpses, Sylvanas would be killed so fast your head would spin. With the Alliance, the plot point is just flat out dropped or ignored.
Quillboar: If you haven't noticed, the response everyone else has to the undead Quillboar is to kill them. Not accepted by anyone but the Quillboar.
Draenei: No they weren't. The spirits were interred in Achuindun to rest. Some allowed themselves to be used to power the guardians, but the Draenei did not force the souls to do that. Neither did they animate the dead. The ones in Outland were insane. Those were not accepted and the insane soul priests and their like, were killed by the sane Draenei. Not accepted.

No one sane, no culture that is sane, accepts undead and necromancy as normal.

08/17/2015 09:27 AMPosted by Scryll
That's a cop out and you know it. Besides which, it wasn't just ancient past. If that were the case, the Arathor Empire wouldn't have spread across the entire northern subcontinent over such an extended period of time. It did and it was ethnically cleansing the trolls the whole way. They were still engaged in such activity when Tides of Darkness rolled around, it's why Zul'jin was a prisoner the orcs could rescue in the first place. And we see Stormwind continuing the pattern even now, against the jungle trolls.


You have a habit of regularly using examples that are far back in the past as if they are still relevant. The events of the Arathor and the Troll Wars that brought the High elves and humans into contact (and gave humans mages) was 2,000 years ago. That is the ancient past. I will admit that humans and trolls have been dicks to each other and the hatred is more or less bone deep by now, but the trolls still pining for the empire they once had? Time to give it up. The same with the Amani and the High elves. The Amani waited for 4,000 years before they attacked beyond small raids after the initial arrival. That is far too long to hold a grudge. Any right to the land the trolls had was long since lost by then. The Amani come off more as being very bad losers than anything else.

As far as I know, the Stormwind humans were not doing anything to the Guburashi trolls of the Stranglethorn.
08/17/2015 09:51 AMPosted by Threeslotbag
08/17/2015 01:46 AMPosted by Varmreft
She was full on cackling Saturday morning villain in Gilneas, which is clearly part of the storyline they will be continuing.

1. Murdered the Heir
2. Kill tons of Civilians
3. Used a WMD that she was expressly told not to
1. Heir murdered himself by purposefully jumping in front of a flying arrow.
2. Garrosh commanded the Forsaken to kill everyone while Sylvanas was away in Northrend
3. Garrosh commanded the Forsaken to kill themselves stupidly using no tactics. He forced them to walk into Horde artillery fire and said once the pile of their corpses was high enough he would walk his Orcs over the top of the Gilneas wall. Him telling them not to use a basic acid bomb that they are immune to in combat is more tactical stupidity that they were right to ignore.


So much lies

1. Heir died a noble death protecting his father from assassination by an invader. His blood is still Sylvanas's hands.
2. Sylvanas was directly involved in the invasion. Garrosh never told her to kill everyone. He even forbid her from using the weapon that would kill everyone.
3. The plague isn't an acid bomb, it is a environment destroying weapon of terorr that destroys soldier and civilian alike. It is a WMD and using that on a civilian population center is a war crime in any sense of the word. It would be the moral equivalent of us carpet bombing Baghdad with mustard gas.

The Sylvanas internet defense force is ridiculous "Sylvanas was just minding her own business when that stupid kid jumped in the way of her arrows SHE DIDN'T DO NOTHING".
08/17/2015 03:17 PMPosted by Varmreft
The Sylvanas internet defense force is ridiculous "Sylvanas was just minding her own business when that stupid kid jumped in the way of her arrows SHE DIDN'T DO NOTHING".
Hey, you said she "MURDERED" the heir. He purposefully jumped in front of an arrow in flight that wasn't aimed at him. At the very worst she 2nd degree manslaughtered the heir.

ANY necromancy is reviled.
The current Warchief of the Horde has no problem with necromancy and even feels rather jolly about it. He's employed it secondhand himself through his Loas and he likes to laugh about Sylvanas doing it to others.

So half the governments in the world are pro-necromancy. :D
08/17/2015 03:17 PMPosted by Varmreft
3. The plague isn't an acid bomb, it is a environment destroying weapon of terorr that destroys soldier and civilian alike. It is a WMD and using that on a civilian population center is a war crime in any sense of the word. It would be the moral equivalent of us carpet bombing Baghdad with mustard gas.

A plague bomb is no different than the firebombs used to sack Taurajo.
08/17/2015 03:17 PMPosted by Varmreft
3. The plague isn't an acid bomb, it is a environment destroying weapon of terorr that destroys soldier and civilian alike. It is a WMD and using that on a civilian population center is a war crime in any sense of the word. It would be the moral equivalent of us carpet bombing Baghdad with mustard gas.


The Horde disagrees, as does the Alliance if we just had to base it off of all the complaints that we haven't seen from the Alliance npc's.

As for comparing it to carpet bombing Baghdad with mustard gas, given the extent of long term damage to the populations health and the severe damage to construction, I'd compare it more to dropping a 15 kiloton nuclear device on Hiroshima. A particularly apt comparison since Sylvanas' motives for switching to a blight heavy strategy was to minimize casualties on her side.
08/17/2015 02:29 AMPosted by Feraliona
Wisps and ghosts, for the most part, choose to stay. Letting spirits move on naturally seems to be a big thing for Elves..


neither seems very voluntary.

wisps seem more free willed, but still in a servitude role. they are the work horses of the Nelf culture. they mine ore, make wood, build buildings, or exploding to kill demons... these guys are not going to an after life, they are going to a hard labor camp.

ghosts run a larger gambit of roles but most seem to be mean, in a time loop, locked in some kind of ghost box like Achundun(sp?) or unaware of their own death. very few seem to be choosing to be ghosts.
Humans: necromancy is banned and forbidden. Not accepted.


still make up the majority of necromancers and practice it often enough to have to make laws against it

Orcs: necromancy is forbidden and banned. not accepted.


they summon and take orders from the dead ghosts of their people... that is death magic. it is even a major part of their culture... it is totally not illegal in any way.

Quillboar: If you haven't noticed, the response everyone else has to the undead Quillboar is to kill them. Not accepted by anyone but the Quillboar.


quillboar are allies of the scourge and make undead quillboar. they literally have the opposite reaction to the undead that most other races have.

Draenei: No they weren't. The spirits were interred in Achuindun to rest. Some allowed themselves to be used to power the guardians, but the Draenei did not force the souls to do that. Neither did they animate the dead. The ones in Outland were insane. Those were not accepted and the insane soul priests and their like, were killed by the sane Draenei. Not accepted.


they locked their spirits in a box rather than letting them pass on. they used some of the dead as fuel for robot stuff. the "crazy" ones(who made up a significant portion of the population) actively manipulated the dead.

so the use of magic to control or in other ways manipulate the dead is necromancy and all of the above races plus others gleefully do so. why again is it sooo bad when the forsaken do it but is ignored in all other cases?

and lets not forget that DKs are literally worse than the forsaken but still given positions of command by both factions. I don't mean "literally" in the way that stupid people use the word... I mean it in it's actual context.

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