Did Archimonde LFR mode

General Discussion
Most painful thing I have done in LFR ever. I didn't do it on this character, I did it on my DK.

Anyway.

This has got to be the hardest thing I've ever done in PVE and when I finally killed him I felt a great sense of accomplishment.

15 wipes, 3hours.

After all was said and done about 4 people from the original raid were remaining.

A couple things I have to say -

If you are undergeared or you don't do at least 20k dps without any determination buff, please don't queue. If you can't out heal a tank. Please don't queue.

This is not a fight where you can just twiddle your thumbs and faceroll to another piece of fat lootz. This is an actual challenge.

Be prepared. Our first 10 wipes we had 3 healers who couldn't out heal a prot pally. Some mean things were said to them and they kept trying. One of them even yelled inall caps "I"M HEALING MY BUTT OFF DOING EVERYITNG I CAN" and I felt bad for them. To be honest though, they shouldn't be there if they can't out heal a tank.

Yes mechanics are the real issue but if you have people who aren't doing proper dps/healing then it's even worse.
08/28/2015 11:09 PMPosted by Dankatorious

To be honest though, they shouldn't be there if they can't out heal a tank.


Agreed. But at the same time, LFR is meant to be the EASIEST mode of raiding. For BEGINNERS. And so it shouldn't require people in 700 ilvl gear - pulling 50k HPS to down it
I actually like the LFR being more challenging like this. There is everything you'll find in heroic mode, except the hp maybe. That's good for teaching players how to do the mechanics and to let them experience the real pains of raiding. I only wiped 15 times. I wonder how many times heroic raiding guilds will wipe on archimonde heroic?

Anyway I hope in the future blizz makes LFR this hard. It's good for the game.
08/28/2015 11:16 PMPosted by Poisonkisses
08/28/2015 11:09 PMPosted by Dankatorious

To be honest though, they shouldn't be there if they can't out heal a tank.


Agreed. But at the same time, LFR is meant to be the EASIEST mode of raiding. For BEGINNERS. And so it shouldn't require people in 700 ilvl gear - pulling 50k HPS to down it


It most likely doesn't it requires people to handle the mechanics decently while actually knowing something about their class. Even easy modes in games general have the last boss have SOME challenge.
[quote]

Agreed. But at the same time, LFR is meant to be the EASIEST mode of raiding. For BEGINNERS. And so it shouldn't require people in 700 ilvl gear - pulling 50k HPS to down it


Very true. I've run four different characters through Archimonde, and only one has downed him successfully -- after several wipes, of course -- and that was on Tuesday, when most of the better skilled/geared players tend to run. I was in a group yesterday on my hunter where they had wiped 13 times before I arrived and were on #18 when I left, after an hour-plus of explaining how to do the fight every time new people joined and then subsequently wipes during those 5 or so attempts.

I'm all for difficult fights, especially for an end-boss of a raid. But this is a bit TOO overhanded with mechanics in LFR, with the amount of damage people take. For instance, if a person doesn't move IMMEDIATELY during an Allure of Flames cast, they pretty much are guaranteed to be dead from 5+ fire stacks while they are trying to get out of the fire due to rate of stack gains. I'm also seeing a lot of people dying from the Shadowfel Burst since 1) people selected tend to not have any / many people around to help mitigate the explode upon landing, 2) they seem to be knocked higher than the "8 meters" described [more like 20+ meters], 3) tend to die from impact damage more than explosive damage [although i haven't checked the death info to verify that].

A fight like Blackhand was a difficult learning curve for people when he came out, but the most I ever saw was 8 stacks of determination buffs before people were able to down him, mostly by facerolling through some of the mechanics. A person shouldn't be spending 3+ hours in a single LFR fight with a 10-stack determination buff and STILL not even getting him down to 50%, let alone into the final phases.

Hopefully Blizz will look at some LFR player logs and see that the fight is in need of some serious tuning / nerfing for LFR mode... i'd like to see some of the Blizz people jump in to a random LFR (as dps so they can't control the tanking nor heals for a fair result) just to see what we are suffering through.
Going from an hour queue as a DPS into a 3 determination stacked group, it took me another 2 and a half hours to get Archimonde down (~20 attempts), and that was only when by absolute chance a group of 4 heroic HFC geared players (1 tank, 1 healer and 2 dps) joined the group and practically carried the raid.

We should not need ilvl 710 people and 10 stacks of determination to successfully down Archimonde, though I will say for about 5 or 6 of those attempts we wiped due to people failing in the Twisting Nether (getting blasted off by the void star)..
I can see them removing void stars from LFR. Seems to be the running trend of wipe causers that really doesn't add much to the flavour of the fight.
08/28/2015 11:44 PMPosted by Teneea
I can see them removing void stars from LFR. Seems to be the running trend of wipe causers that really doesn't add much to the flavour of the fight.


Removing or majorly nerfing their speed and stacking speed boosts, or their health. Perhaps nerfing them slightly so if someone gets hit it doesn't kill everyone in the Twisting Nether immediately with throwbacks. anything, something.
08/28/2015 11:16 PMPosted by Poisonkisses
08/28/2015 11:09 PMPosted by Dankatorious

To be honest though, they shouldn't be there if they can't out heal a tank.


Agreed. But at the same time, LFR is meant to be the EASIEST mode of raiding. For BEGINNERS. And so it shouldn't require people in 700 ilvl gear - pulling 50k HPS to down it


15 wipes to get the kill, in just a few days after release is pretty easy.

A lot of people wiped 100+ times on heroic Blackhand and still didn't get a kill.

Relatively speaking Archimonde in LFR no more difficult than in higher difficulties.
After a 1 hour queue I joined a group with 10 determination stacks, and a boss area littered with skeletons.

As soon as I joined the raid leader was fighting with the other tank, and the healers.

As I was ilvl 704 I thought that maybe I could carry the raid, especially with 10 stacks. It took two attempts and I was almost 50 million damage ahead of the next dps, and I was actually trying hard to explain mechanics to people. I'm not bragging, just saying that even with good gear I struggled to take care of the adds myself, and the adds (especially infernals) were the most deadly thing in the raid.

While the mechanics can't be cheesed like in previous LFRs I find that the biggest problem is patience. People get so frustrated that they just lunge themselves at the boss with no ready checks or markers or even a vague description of what to do. As if stacks of determination alone would carry them. That raid group had wiped at least 5 times with already 10 stacks.

After the first wipe and people getting insults out of their chests I asked the tank to calm down and I asked everyone to be quiet. I calmly explained what markers were for, when and where we should move for allure, and what to do with adds (kill them quick), and we downed the boss. (more than half the dps was dead but a sloppy kill is better than a wipe)

It was only one wipe for me but I kept thinking about all those people who sat through 15+ wipes and did not fix anything.

tl;dr: If you're knowledgeable of the fight, and are geared try to establish some authority and explain the fight. ADDS>BOSS works well... spamming that in /rw seemed to do the trick.
avoiding death actually wasn't that hard for me. Even with all the adds and green !@#$ everywhere and I'm a DK.

It was my first time doing it, after 3 wipes of learning what not to stand in and what the boss did I only died after the tanks after that. So i see all these people dying all the time and I can't fathom why. Even if you don't follow the markers and there is green %^-* everywhere, don't stand in it, if a DK can do it then anyone can do it.
avoiding death actually wasn't that hard for me. Even with all the adds and green !@#$ everywhere and I'm a DK.

It was my first time doing it, after 3 wipes of learning what not to stand in and what the boss did I only died after the tanks after that. So i see all these people dying all the time and I can't fathom why.


The only explanation is, you are in LFR.

You are actually paying attention to mechanics, and can pick up which fire not to stand in after just 3 wipes?

I strongly recommend you upgrade yourself to higher difficulties once you are geared enough.
08/28/2015 11:20 PMPosted by Dankatorious
I actually like the LFR being more challenging like this. There is everything you'll find in heroic mode, except the hp maybe. That's good for teaching players how to do the mechanics and to let them experience the real pains of raiding. I only wiped 15 times. I wonder how many times heroic raiding guilds will wipe on archimonde heroic?

Anyway I hope in the future blizz makes LFR this hard. It's good for the game.


I agree. I enjoyed LFR in MoP, and I was saddened when I messed with LFR on my alts early in WoD and saw how badly they nerfed the difficulty. I'm actually happy to hear that Archimonde is a challenge. They still need to fix his loot table, though; he doesn't give rewards good enough for the surprise difficulty he has.
I sort of wish they added various mechanics to dungeons in smaller or diluted ways. That way they can slowly build people up into actually trying to learn mechanics.
08/28/2015 11:16 PMPosted by Poisonkisses
08/28/2015 11:09 PMPosted by Dankatorious

To be honest though, they shouldn't be there if they can't out heal a tank.


Agreed. But at the same time, LFR is meant to be the EASIEST mode of raiding. For BEGINNERS. And so it shouldn't require people in 700 ilvl gear - pulling 50k HPS to down it


I really hope you don't need 700 ilvl gear to do enough dps and heals to beat Archimonde on LFR. >.> You need 650 to get in, and even with 650, 25k dps is easy enough for beginners, assuming they have some inkling of idea how to play the character. 30k dps is possible at 650 if you have a fairly good understanding of your character. I don't heal, but I assume that would mean that heals are just as easy to do. It's not a gear issue that groups are having by any means. Every time I've failed to kill Archimonde in LFR, it's because people either don't know what their character's abilities are or they completely ignoring chat and not doing any sort of mechanics. It's a final boss that actually shows you a little bit of what doing a raid is actually like. Which isn't something that's been in LFR before. An introduction to raiding! It's awesome! I fully support it. :) A couple of weeks ago I had a guy pug a normal group for Kil'rog. He died in the first like 2 minutes of the fight, told us he did LFR so he thought he could do this, then left group feeling dejected. LFR traditionally is so easy that it doesn't work as an introduction to raiding. So I hope to see more things like this in the future.
I did my washing today.

Just thought you'd all like to know what mundane thing I did today since this seems to be the point of this thread.
Personally, I'm confounded by the fact that I read people say they don't have time to commit to actual raiding (Normal+), but spend 3-4 hours sometimes killing LFR bosses.
08/29/2015 01:00 AMPosted by Woopee
After a 1 hour queue I joined a group with 10 determination stacks, and a boss area littered with skeletons.

As soon as I joined the raid leader was fighting with the other tank, and the healers.

As I was ilvl 704 I thought that maybe I could carry the raid, especially with 10 stacks. It took two attempts and I was almost 50 million damage ahead of the next dps, and I was actually trying hard to explain mechanics to people. I'm not bragging, just saying that even with good gear I struggled to take care of the adds myself, and the adds (especially infernals) were the most deadly thing in the raid.

While the mechanics can't be cheesed like in previous LFRs I find that the biggest problem is patience. People get so frustrated that they just lunge themselves at the boss with no ready checks or markers or even a vague description of what to do. As if stacks of determination alone would carry them. That raid group had wiped at least 5 times with already 10 stacks.

After the first wipe and people getting insults out of their chests I asked the tank to calm down and I asked everyone to be quiet. I calmly explained what markers were for, when and where we should move for allure, and what to do with adds (kill them quick), and we downed the boss. (more than half the dps was dead but a sloppy kill is better than a wipe)

It was only one wipe for me but I kept thinking about all those people who sat through 15+ wipes and did not fix anything.

tl;dr: If you're knowledgeable of the fight, and are geared try to establish some authority and explain the fight. ADDS>BOSS works well... spamming that in /rw seemed to do the trick.


Oh don't lie.... i bet you loved back in MoP being a group that needed 5 stacks + 5 other wipes just to being Thok the T-rex in SoO.... Jk.

I spent 4 hours, 20+ wipes and over 700g in a fresh lfr to finish to get him down.
i actually DO miss this level of difficulty in lfr... anyone remember lfr's failing from bosses after SoO was out for an year?
Good times. Actually. Made feeling like doing doing things in flex(/normal) was super worth it
I had a go at it as a healer for a few attempts and don't think we even got him to under 75%. When the top healer left I decided I would too. Was keeping the raid up alright but the tanks were saying they were getting hit hard and kept dying.
I can't fathom this being worth anyones time. I can appreciate a challenge, but when the reward is 8g, and some gear that's worse than what you can get in TJ I have to ask why would you bother?

I wouldn't feel any real sense of accomplishment is the reward wasn't worth the effort.

That being said I'd be all for a more difficult LFR, but the rewards have to be worth the effort, or there's no reason to bother.

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