Blizzard, you're doing it again II

General Discussion
Previous thread: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/18596063318

The thread wasn't about flying like the blue post addressed. It was about the fact that one Blizzard employee is saying one thing, and then another is saying the opposite only minutes later.

There is a complete communication breakdown somewhere, and what I am asking for is consistency in released statements (especially ones that are only minutes apart).

From Rygarius:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/19820046/622-patch-notes-patch-arriving-september-1-8-19-2015
Here you make it sound like 6.2.2 is definitely 100% set in stone for a September 1 release: "Patch 6.2.2 arrives Tuesday, September 1"

From Lore:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/18704210584?page=40#781
Now all of a sudden a short while later this obscure caveat is added, saying that there is a chance that it could actually be delayed beyond September 1: "Please keep in mind that this release date is not set in stone". Many players would not have even seen this follow up post.

Thank you for the communication but please, we are begging you, be consistent with your communication. The first post makes it sound like the September 1 date is 100% confirmed, while the other says "guys hold on it might not be released September 1". If the patch is indeed delayed, there will be a huge uproar about miscommunication despite the follow up post.


*One post is enough on this. There's no need to continue. Thank you for your feedback. - Nethaera
I would rather know that while the target is one date, if something game breaking were to arise they would push it back to accommodate that. Judging from the responses to Lore in the 1st thread, I am not alone in that. However (and very unfortunately) there are far more who would rather the opposite happen purely so they would have reason to relight the torches and keep the pitchforks sharp.
Please, give it a rest.

This post didn't need a part two.
He answered the questions, why did this need to continue?
Gotta earn those WoW hater points man.
08/19/2015 08:33 PMPosted by Lore
---WARNING: HERE THERE BE PERSONAL OPINION DRAGONS---

I'll start with this: we're a software development company. More precisely, we're a video game developer. Anything and everything can change in the software development world, for reasons that are often impossible to predict ahead of time. As a result, we're hesitant to 100% commit to anything. We've learned that, no matter how confident we are at any given point, there's always a very real chance that there's something we haven't thought of that makes what we want to do impossible.

The whole "weeks, not months" thing makes an easy example. At the time that was said, we firmly believed that it would only take us a few weeks to polish off Tanaan and fix a few areas we knew were likely to have some bugs, and then we'd roll out the flying patch. It's easy enough, right? We just change a few 0's to 1's and it's all done.

Then we started finding a lot more bugs and glitches than we expected. We found tiny pockets of the world that weren't properly obeying the flight rules, and would drop players to their deaths if you happened to fly through them. We found issues with certain mounts and class abilities that were caused by hotfixes to resolve exploits, which resulted in those mounts and abilities not working. We found situations in which if you fly into your Garrison at juuuuust the right angle, you get disconnected and can't get back onto your character for a good half hour or so.

Finding those bugs, implementing fixes, testing those fixes, finding more bugs (sometimes caused by those fixes)... it all added up to a lot more work being needed to actually enable flying than we had originally expected. And as a result, what we originally thought would only take a few weeks ended up taking a couple months.

Now, don't get me wrong: I'm not making excuses here. And I don't at all blame the players who are frustrated and upset that we didn't hit the timeline we originally stated. Honestly, we probably should never have said that it would only take a few weeks. That was clearly a mistake, and I apologize for it.

But that should hopefully give you an idea of why -- ESPECIALLY given the missteps we've made in the recent past -- we simply can't 100% guarantee that nothing will go wrong between now and September 1st. Truth is, we're more confident in this release date than we usually are this far in advance of a patch. That's why we felt that we could give a date at all.

There's just always -- ALWAYS -- a chance that something can go wrong at the last minute. We could, say, be finishing the fixes for the last couple of dismount bugs on the Saturday before release, and when we compile the final build, all of a sudden activating your flying mount teleports you to the graveyard in Westfall and deletes the contents of your inventory. Is that likely? Not really, no. But it's possible, so we need to make sure you're aware that things can change, just in case something like that does happen.

There are alternatives, of course. We could just not give a date until we know for 100% certain, which is our usual strategy. Like I said, we feel a little more confident in this date than usual, so we thought it was okay to share it.

The other option would have been to try to have the patch ready to go by the 1st, but not actually plan to release it until a week or so later. That would let us announce a date we'd be extremely confident in, but we'd essentially be delaying the release of flight even further, and we definitely don't want to do that. So, we gave a date that we feel pretty good about, with the reminder that we won't be able to release if something catastrophic happens.

This ended up being a giant wall of text, but I'll leave it with this: I know it's super frustrating when it feels like we're not being as open as we possibly could be. And I know it's equally frustrating when it seems like we're completely unwilling to commit to anything concrete. I spent 8 years as a player before I became an employee. I know exactly how it feels.

I just also know that it's better to not expect much and be pleasantly surprised, than to feel like a promise was broken. At least that's my opinion.


All of the things that Lore mentioned are valid.

The problem is, those are being used as blanket reasons instead of explaining what is really happening.

The issues such as things changing etc are not unique to WoW, not unique to WoD and not new the industry. So the explanation that needs to be made is why are we feeling it now, and we haven't in the past?

First of all flight has never been an issue until they (Blizzard) made it one.
In the past we've never had entire zones not ready at launch.
We've had many thing removed from scope before, that happens. That's not what the flight issue is about.

This is just a bait and switch thing. Stop talking about generalities and explain why we are feeling this to this extent in WoD and never have in the previous expansions from WoW?
08/20/2015 06:49 AMPosted by Adam
He answered the questions, why did this need to continue?


OP needs attention.
08/20/2015 06:49 AMPosted by Adam
He answered the questions, why did this need to continue?

Because the answer isn't what the OP wanted to hear.
Look, we got an answer. Leave it alone.
Flying isn't that far out. Go fly in SW/Org :D
08/20/2015 06:50 AMPosted by Doomthulsa
Look, we got an answer. Leave it alone.


You got an excuse. If you consider than an answer, that's cool.

I will note that we aren't owed one either, but I'd still like to understand where the disconnect really is.
This reminds me of Matrix Reloaded. The sequel nobody wanted.
08/20/2015 06:54 AMPosted by Sweetpeaz
I will note that we aren't owed one either, but I'd still like to understand where the disconnect really is.


The disconnect, is in the minds of the entitled.

08/20/2015 06:50 AMPosted by Sweetpeaz
The problem is, those are being used as blanket reasons instead of explaining what is really happening.


What sort of reasons do you want to hear?

If they give "reasons", people are going to want in-depth explanations of those reasons.
"Reasons" aren't always black and white, nor singular, nor forseeable... and quite frankly, unless it's your job to deal with those issues, I'm not sure how you think it has anything to do with you.
08/20/2015 06:54 AMPosted by Sweetpeaz
08/20/2015 06:50 AMPosted by Doomthulsa
Look, we got an answer. Leave it alone.


You got an excuse. If you consider than an answer, that's cool.

I will note that we aren't owed one either, but I'd still like to understand where the disconnect really is.

What disconnect?
08/20/2015 06:50 AMPosted by Doomthulsa
Look, we got an answer. Leave it alone.
The "answer" was more BS double talk from a Blizz lackey. That wasn't an answer at all.
The disconnect, is in the minds of the entitled.


I am not asking for anything that the developers themselves would want out of any good/service that they pay for. Just clear answers from straight forward questions.

08/20/2015 07:08 AMPosted by Nobully
What sort of reasons do you want to hear?

If they give "reasons", people are going to want in-depth explanations of those reasons.
"Reasons" aren't always black and white, nor singular, nor forseeable... and quite frankly, unless it's your job to deal with those issues, I'm not sure how you think it has anything to do with you


I don't care about their development process, when their development process has nothing...absolutely nothing to do with the words out of their mouths.

The problems we've had in WoD aren't development issues, they are communication issues. Development issues have existed since long before WoW and we've dealt with them in every expansion.

Let me say this again for people to get the point. The problems we are having in WoD aren't development related they are not technical in nature. They are communication related.
Anything in boxes is from Lore's post in the original thread:

The whole "weeks, not months" thing makes an easy example. At the time that was said, we firmly believed that it would only take us a few weeks to polish off Tanaan and fix a few areas we knew were likely to have some bugs, and then we'd roll out the flying patch. It's easy enough, right? We just change a few 0's to 1's and it's all done.

Then we started finding a lot more bugs and glitches than we expected. We found tiny pockets of the world that weren't properly obeying the flight rules, and would drop players to their deaths if you happened to fly through them. We found issues with certain mounts and class abilities that were caused by hotfixes to resolve exploits, which resulted in those mounts and abilities not working. We found situations in which if you fly into your Garrison at juuuuust the right angle, you get disconnected and can't get back onto your character for a good half hour or so.

Finding those bugs, implementing fixes, testing those fixes, finding more bugs (sometimes caused by those fixes)... it all added up to a lot more work being needed to actually enable flying than we had originally expected. And as a result, what we originally thought would only take a few weeks ended up taking a couple months.


Then simply tell us this. We (or at least most of us who are not trolls) would be a lot more understanding of your situation if you gave us a bit more information about what you're doing. Simply telling us "Flying is hard, guys!" just leads to the "No, just flip the switch" responses. We don't need a programming lesson, but a bit of in-depth feedback as to what you're facing would probably go a long way.

When we can see what some of the possible issues are, such as "situations in which if you fly into your Garrison at juuuuust the right angle, you get disconnected and can't get back onto your character for a good half hour or so," we might respond with "wow, that's really terrible, I wouldn't want that to happen to me. Keep working on it until you fix that bug!"

The other option would have been to try to have the patch ready to go by the 1st, but not actually plan to release it until a week or so later. That would let us announce a date we'd be extremely confident in, but we'd essentially be delaying the release of flight even further, and we definitely don't want to do that. So, we gave a date that we feel pretty good about, with the reminder that we won't be able to release if something catastrophic happens.


(what I am about to say is rather tongue-in-cheek, make sure you take it as such) What you just described is the Captain Montgomery Scott method of engineering. If it worked for James T. Kirk, it's good enough for me!

I just also know that it's better to not expect much and be pleasantly surprised, than to feel like a promise was broken. At least that's my opinion.


That's usually been my approach to Blizzard for the past decade (as well as to most things in life). But the disappointment with this expansion has been so pervasive, so constant, and so apologized for, that I can't help but read each Blizzard announcement with the most vitriolic skepticism in mind.
08/20/2015 07:12 AMPosted by Rrayy
08/20/2015 06:50 AMPosted by Doomthulsa
Look, we got an answer. Leave it alone.
The "answer" was more BS double talk from a Blizz lackey. That wasn't an answer at all.

Actually it wasn't double talk and it was a great answer. Maybe you should learn programming before making statements like this because it shows you have 0 knowledge in that field.
08/20/2015 07:16 AMPosted by Oin
Then simply tell us this. We (or at least most of us who are not trolls) would be a lot more understanding of your situation if you gave us a bit more information about what you're doing.


He just did tell us, so can we please move on? Thanks.
08/20/2015 07:19 AMPosted by Wolfar
08/20/2015 07:16 AMPosted by Oin
Then simply tell us this. We (or at least most of us who are not trolls) would be a lot more understanding of your situation if you gave us a bit more information about what you're doing.


He just did tell us, so can we please move on? Thanks.


He told us this too late, when things are already in crisis mode, and they are trying to put down the forum riots. The trick is to be proactive and try to prevent the situation from getting to that point in the first place.

And to answer your question: No, we cannot. You're welcome.

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