Ability pruning was a failure

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I actually enjoyed (and to some degree still do) the pruning.

There was a lot of bloat, much of it unnecessary.

The problem as I see it was that this occurred along with a CC cleansing. Now this is what I think failed since some classes kept virtually all of their CC, others were forced into difficult choices via talents, and still others lost a ton of their CC clean.

I would stab someone for CoE back. I also liked when Howl of Terror was a base skill on top of other spec'd CC.
09/08/2015 07:06 PMPosted by Miranda
So we can all agree to this correct?
Since they're reworking on class fantasy, we can safely say, pruning removed that.
Which means we can expect more spells next expansion hopefully?


I hope so because they removed almost all of the depth of any class that exists. Destroyed certain specs (ahem Arms i am looking at you) and homogenized everyone. The game truly has been reduced to a 2 button fest in most class cases with NO thought needed. Certain things did need removal but they went WAY overboard.
i heard they're still looking at pruning more abilities still
Anybody ever played Tekken or Soul Calibur?

If you played as Astaroth and just held down R2, you tended to win because it locked a player in a knockdown cycle that ended with a brawl in the living room.

By Blizzard's Doctrine of Ability Pruning, every other ability (50 or so) on his move list should be removed and the resulting one-button wreckage should be considered virtuous, elegant and perfect.
I am one of the players who will pause everything to look up a move and I'm firmly against the ability pruning.

I took a break from WoW after the Cata release and came back to WoW late 5.4. I logged into my Warlock, which was still lvl 72 in Coldarra, and spent 10 minutes looking for hellfire and then shadow bolt. General chat sympathetically broke the news that they're now exclusive to Demonology. To hell with Demonology, it'll be gimped until they figure out what demons are.

Hellfire was the reason I rolled a warlock, I'd DoT up 40 mobs with glyphed corruption, pop hellfire and kill them all while they heal me. Now, I'm destro and I generate chaos bolts. I want these abilities back with the old talent trees, so that if I want to cast shadow bolt instead of drain soul, I spend 5 talents on one instead of the other.

What ability pruning did was find spells that were broken and cut them instead of fixing them.

For example, making serpent sting passive and removing the rest. Serpent sting could have been turned into an Envenom like debuff. Scorpid sting could have applied mortal wounds. Viper sting could have slowed casting and attack speed. Yeah, only one is relevant to raiding but so what? the rest would be useful elsewhere.

It may have been a net success if they'd pruned half of what they did, but ultimately it was undertaken with a fetish for simplicity and complete disregard for what makes classes fun. Prior to 6.0, movement wasn't part of your rotation.

RIP Arms, Marksmanship and Destruction.

I'm not sure that Blizzard knows where it went wrong. It's making survival a strictly melee spec where it should probably be a melee/range hybrid (the pet doesn't count). I'm looking forward to it though, it's got to be better than the mind numbing DoT-shotter that SV is now.

Limiting Frost DK's to dual wielding already appears to be causing more complaints than it's worth. Instead, they should just remove Might of the Frozen Wastes, make two-handed obliterate do 100k damage, and dual wield obliterate do 2x50k damage. If Illidan and Gul'dan are back in the game, then Frostmourne can be reforged.

Anybody who whinged about their keybindings is either full of !@#$ or has arthritis in their fingers. I was playing with a Logitech G19 Keyboard and Razer Naga - then my poor old desktop died. I'm now playing on a Mac Air with a Logitech G502 (left click, right click + 4 buttons) at no disadvantage. The only trouble I ever had with keybindings was with targeting and focus-interrupt macros, and then I resolved it, and it works on this craptop with a difficult alt key. You can't expect to have everything on 1/2/3/4 without modifiers (I don't even use them - they're too far up).
I second this motion. They absolutely killed warriors (again) imo. Cataclysm was the pinnacle for warriors. The rotation was fun, fairly involved with macros, and made you feel like a bad !@#. MoP tried to rein warriors in for the new characters and the class lost its rhythm and fluidity. WoD takes this even further by making both warrior dps specs feel like clunky messes with no rhythm and fluidity. Not only that, but it really just doesn't make any sense. I mean whirlwind as a filler for arms? Come on now, it doesn't take a game designer to know that they just threw that in there willy nilly - like a lot of things this expansion.

I won't even touch on what they did to my warlock... *points to bear*
Blame the console generation. They aren't smart enough to memorize over 3 keybinds.
I don't think ability pruning was a failure for Blizzard. By pruning everything and creating a lot of player dissatisfaction Blizzard has provided themselves a problem to solve. Next expansion, sure enough, they're "focused" on the mythology and stuff regarding classes. Looks like they pruned things just in time to offer back all the diversity in the next expansion as a major selling point!

Smart software companies invent problems for themselves to solve. And then they profit. In other words: wag the dog.
09/08/2015 07:17 PMPosted by Miranda
09/08/2015 07:15 PMPosted by Zoombies
Idk, I liked ability pruning I didn't like feeling that I had to keybind things and figure out exactly how to get my keys in a good spot, or purchase a expensive mouse to be able to play effectively. I enjoy that i can use keys 1-5 and not hurt my dps.

You must play League of Legends then.
You pretty much said, you dislike learning how to play.

Keybinding is where the skill is born.

Love how amazing this community is. Someone gives their honest feedback and people like this and then others saying, "You're a LFR player...". So disgusting that someone can't reply with their feelings without then people bashing them for it because it the opposite of the majority. People want to blame Blizzard for the community? Maybe take a look at people like this who replied to the person. People like that and the others bashing this person are the reason why the community keeps getting worse.

Yeah they MUST play LoL because they like less keys. GW2, Wildstar and other mmos have a lot less keys too. So they must play those as well right?
Eventually it will be like "Cast frostbolt......deals 25k damage, snares target 40% for 4 seconds....takes 3 seconds off cooldowns for icy veins and frozen orb, adds an icicle stack, and off heals you for 5% of the total damage dealt, gains an additional 10% from haste from all sources,increases the buff you get from food by 13%, heals water elemental for 5% of his base health, and summons a small water elemental who serves with you for 15 seconds or 5 casts of waterbolt stacking up to 5 times............ just have 1 ability do half of the things.
09/10/2015 06:02 AMPosted by Bottles
Blame the console generation. They aren't smart enough to memorize over 3 keybinds.


The pruning really had a lot of us freaking out about this. I remember playing Discipline on beta and just spamming Holy Nova and PW:S and doing the most healing. We were thinking for sure that they must be fantasizing about a console version.
I liked having grapple, and clash. Clash was a charge with a twist, the target would move half to you, as you moved half to them. It was so useful for tanking on a spellcaster, and such. grapple let me take the other's weapo, which made most melee ineffective for a few seconds, plus I could use that weapon too. Other classes had a disarm too, but monks only have 1 weapon skill, so that was alrigjt too.
Pruning was a massive failure for a majority of classes. A few select classes might be alright, but most classes are just awful as far as gameplay right now.

They need to make the classes fun to play again just for the sake of playing them. Not trying to provide motivation to go play a soulless class out in the world, or a dugneon/raid, whatever. The classes need to be fun to play of their own merit.
09/08/2015 07:17 PMPosted by Nøbødy
i saw in one dev interview how they were wanted to move difficulty from the rotation to the boss encounter.

as a non-raiding pvper yea i would say its a failure, doing damage is just not as fun or interesting.


This only works for Mythic encounters, and even then really only the harder bosses. Maybe 2-3 heroic bosses the entire expansion, but everything outside of Mythic is hardly challenging enough to warrant interest with how dull the combat has become.

Which is why hopefully they've learned this and will make the classes fun to play in Legion again.
09/08/2015 07:49 PMPosted by Telemakos
The ability prune kicked arms in the nuts and then laughed as the spec rolled on the ground in pain.

Hell, it's still laughing.


:(
09/08/2015 07:06 PMPosted by Miranda
So we can all agree to this correct?


Not me, no. I think the more abilities they add the more same everything will feel. That's the problem in the first place, so adding more abilities won't be the solution. I think quality over quantity is the way to go. The pruning they did now is fine for most of the classes and specs, but I still think there's room to push it farther if they really wanna bring home the fantasy.

At any rate, the last thing we need is more abilities. I'd rather see options that change how our current ones work instead of getting more clutter on our bars.
/nod

While I have not enjoyed it in general across all of my toons, I still scratch my head at some of the abilities that were pruned from this class.
09/08/2015 07:15 PMPosted by Truculentt
The "5 buttons with semi random procs inside of 3 second time intervals" that we have today, doesn't take "critical thinking" to understand. its a half arsed combat system that's just easier to tune.


Indeed
I think how people feel about ability pruning is largely impacted by their preferred class and spec. As a resto druid, it had a very low impact on my playstyle - the class is virtually unchanged from MoP. My two biggest complaints remain: No more Wild Mushroom Bloom, No more cheetah form anywhere (RiP) and those two changes were made for reasons not under the umbrella of simple pruning.

We did lose a lot of our hybridity spell access but like I said, the bulk of the gameplay for resto PvE is unchanged.

So overall I feel kind of meh about the pruning. No love, no hate. I'm neutral.

Do other classes REALLY only press 5 buttons? :P I am skeptical about that. I have at least 10 as resto that I use every fight.

--

Now, if I was playing a class that was heavily impacted (as I have heard warlocks were) I would be very upset indeed.
Also people who think League of Legends is "easy" or "simple" because it only has 4 action buttons: Hah.

League finds it's complexity in other ways: talent trees just like WoW used to have, item building, focus on class-countering and team strategy. Not to mention most of the classes have at least one move that is a "skillshot" aka requires you to aim it at a moving target or it does nothing.

Games with limited abilities can still be challenging and complex, don't discredit the WoW pruning argument by slamming a different genre.
09/10/2015 07:57 AMPosted by Rixna
09/08/2015 07:06 PMPosted by Miranda
So we can all agree to this correct?


Not me, no. I think the more abilities they add the more same everything will feel. That's the problem in the first place, so adding more abilities won't be the solution. I think quality over quantity is the way to go. The pruning they did now is fine for most of the classes and specs, but I still think there's room to push it farther if they really wanna bring home the fantasy.

At any rate, the last thing we need is more abilities. I'd rather see options that change how our current ones work instead of getting more clutter on our bars.


Omfg I know right? I need to be able to keybind all my toys and chat macros. Less choice is actually more choice.

09/10/2015 06:05 AMPosted by Skittlyz
I don't think ability pruning was a failure for Blizzard. By pruning everything and creating a lot of player dissatisfaction Blizzard has provided themselves a problem to solve. Next expansion, sure enough, they're "focused" on the mythology and stuff regarding classes. Looks like they pruned things just in time to offer back all the diversity in the next expansion as a major selling point!

Smart software companies invent problems for themselves to solve. And then they profit. In other words: wag the dog.


Can't rule this out. Careless lies, like claiming that they can't make BiS Accolade trinkets because 'they don't actually exist' while having them available at the War Games vendors push me towards this conclusion.

Still, if Disney World staff burnt the place to the ground, just so they could rebuild it and advertise a grand re-opening, you wouldn't call it 'smart'.

99% of the Legion hype is for the Demon Hunter anyway. 7.0 = 11 million subs, 7.1 = 3 million.

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